FL
Salvation
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Furstentum Liechtenstein
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Re: Salvation
Chess, anyone?
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FL
Hold everything lightly. If you don't, it will hurt when God pries your fingers loose as He takes it from you. -Corrie Ten Boom
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If they had a social gospel in the days of the prodigal son, somebody would have given him a bed and a sandwich and he never would have gone home.
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If they had a social gospel in the days of the prodigal son, somebody would have given him a bed and a sandwich and he never would have gone home.
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RickD
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Re: Salvation
Why am I getting the feeling of déjà vu?Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:Chess, anyone?
FL
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
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RickD
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Re: Salvation
He's explained a completely different salvation than what's the message of salvation in the bible!!! The blog author has invented an unbiblical, false type of salvation. Then he proceeded to refute that false type of salvation.Stardust wrote:
I think your playing semantics here, yes he hasn't explained salvation word for word perfect as you'd describe it but i think you get the drift. You seem to be concentrating more on trying to find reasons the blogger de converted rather than tackling the real question of if we're worthy or not.
And I already addressed your question if whether we're worthy. If you want to explain that quote to me in your own words, as you understand it, I will discuss it with you.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
Re: Salvation
So if were not worthy of salvation then Jesus sacrifice isn't praiseworthy. You can't have both. We're either worthy of it or we aren'tRickD wrote:He's explained a completely different salvation than what's the message of salvation in the bible!!! The blog author has invented an unbiblical, false type of salvation. Then he proceeded to refute that false type of salvation.Stardust wrote:
I think your playing semantics here, yes he hasn't explained salvation word for word perfect as you'd describe it but i think you get the drift. You seem to be concentrating more on trying to find reasons the blogger de converted rather than tackling the real question of if we're worthy or not.
And I already addressed your question if whether we're worthy. If you want to explain that quote to me in your own words, as you understand it, I will discuss it with you.
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RickD
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Re: Salvation
Stardust,Stardust wrote:So if were not worthy of salvation then Jesus sacrifice isn't praiseworthy. You can't have both. We're either worthy of it or we aren'tRickD wrote:He's explained a completely different salvation than what's the message of salvation in the bible!!! The blog author has invented an unbiblical, false type of salvation. Then he proceeded to refute that false type of salvation.Stardust wrote:
I think your playing semantics here, yes he hasn't explained salvation word for word perfect as you'd describe it but i think you get the drift. You seem to be concentrating more on trying to find reasons the blogger de converted rather than tackling the real question of if we're worthy or not.
And I already addressed your question if whether we're worthy. If you want to explain that quote to me in your own words, as you understand it, I will discuss it with you.
Please explain why you came to that conclusion. I know the blog author states that, but why do YOU believe that?
And please keep in mind the definition of grace, and how God's grace relates to this issue.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
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Furstentum Liechtenstein
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Re: Salvation
No, no...you don't understand. They don't move the chess pieces with any forethought. They just knock them over.RickD wrote:Please explain why you came to that conclusion. I know the blog author states that, but why do YOU believe that?And please keep in mind the definition of grace, and how God's grace relates to this issue.
FL
Hold everything lightly. If you don't, it will hurt when God pries your fingers loose as He takes it from you. -Corrie Ten Boom
+ + +
If they had a social gospel in the days of the prodigal son, somebody would have given him a bed and a sandwich and he never would have gone home.
+ + +
+ + +
If they had a social gospel in the days of the prodigal son, somebody would have given him a bed and a sandwich and he never would have gone home.
+ + +
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PaulSacramento
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Re: Salvation
Jesus certainly believed we are worthy of salvation...Stardust wrote:So if were not worthy of salvation then Jesus sacrifice isn't praiseworthy. You can't have both. We're either worthy of it or we aren'tRickD wrote:He's explained a completely different salvation than what's the message of salvation in the bible!!! The blog author has invented an unbiblical, false type of salvation. Then he proceeded to refute that false type of salvation.Stardust wrote:
I think your playing semantics here, yes he hasn't explained salvation word for word perfect as you'd describe it but i think you get the drift. You seem to be concentrating more on trying to find reasons the blogger de converted rather than tackling the real question of if we're worthy or not.
And I already addressed your question if whether we're worthy. If you want to explain that quote to me in your own words, as you understand it, I will discuss it with you.
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RickD
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Re: Salvation
Ok Paul. Help me understand what you mean. How are we worthy of salvation?PaulS wrote:
Jesus certainly believed we are worthy of salvation...
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
-
PaulSacramento
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Re: Salvation
RickD wrote:Ok Paul. Help me understand what you mean. How are we worthy of salvation?PaulS wrote:
Jesus certainly believed we are worthy of salvation...
I didn't say we are worthy, I said that Jesus certainly believes we are, I mean, He did die for US, right? He did give us this amazing gift of Grace.
Would He have done that if He thought we were unworthy? undeserving of this gift?
There is nothing we can DO to be worthy of course, but that Jesus sees value ( ie: worth) in Us is quite clear IMO.
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RickD
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Re: Salvation
You didn't say we are worthy, but Jesus believes we are? That's doublespeak. Jesus is God. If he believes something to be true, it must be true.PaulSacramento wrote:RickD wrote:Ok Paul. Help me understand what you mean. How are we worthy of salvation?PaulS wrote:
Jesus certainly believed we are worthy of salvation...
I didn't say we are worthy, I said that Jesus certainly believes we are, I mean, He did die for US, right? He did give us this amazing gift of Grace.
Would He have done that if He thought we were unworthy? undeserving of this gift?
There is nothing we can DO to be worthy of course, but that Jesus sees value ( ie: worth) in Us is quite clear IMO.
If we were deserving, it wouldn't be by grace. Grace says, "I'm giving you this gift even though you don't deserve it. Grace is unmerited.
Again, yes. Because that's grace! We are saved by grace! Because He is worthy. Not us.Would He have done that if He thought we were unworthy? undeserving of this gift?
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
-
PaulSacramento
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Re: Salvation
Rick, that doesn't make any sense.
Sorry.
If Jesus died for US it means that He values Us, there is no way around it.
Matthew 6: 26
26 Look at the birds of the air, that they do not sow, nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not worth much more than they?
Matthew 10:31
Fear not, therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows.
Romans 5:8
Sorry.
If Jesus died for US it means that He values Us, there is no way around it.
Matthew 6: 26
26 Look at the birds of the air, that they do not sow, nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not worth much more than they?
Matthew 10:31
Fear not, therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows.
Romans 5:8
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RickD
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Re: Salvation
Of course He values us. Because of who He is. Tell me then, what makes us worthy of salvation? And show me from scripture.PaulSacramento wrote:Rick, that doesn't make any sense.
Sorry.
If Jesus died for US it means that He values Us, there is no way around it.
Matthew 6: 26
26 Look at the birds of the air, that they do not sow, nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not worth much more than they?
Matthew 10:31
Fear not, therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows.
Romans 5:8
****edit
Paul, don't you understand salvation by grace? And that grace is unmerited? If we were worthy of salvation, we wouldn't need grace to be saved!
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
-
PaulSacramento
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Re: Salvation
RickD wrote:Of course He values us. Because of who He is. Tell me then, what makes us worthy of salvation? And show me from scripture.PaulSacramento wrote:Rick, that doesn't make any sense.
Sorry.
If Jesus died for US it means that He values Us, there is no way around it.
Matthew 6: 26
26 Look at the birds of the air, that they do not sow, nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not worth much more than they?
Matthew 10:31
Fear not, therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows.
Romans 5:8
****edit
Paul, don't you understand salvation by grace? And that grace is unmerited? If we were worthy of salvation, we wouldn't need grace to be saved!
Rick,
If he VALUES us, it means He believes we are worthy.
WE don't have ANY right or reason to believe we are BUT God does.
I am not arguing against grace.
Unmerited favour means there is nothing you can DO not that you have no value.
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Lonewolf
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Re: Salvation
Ephesians, chapter one comes to mind.PaulSacramento wrote:RickD wrote:Of course He values us. Because of who He is. Tell me then, what makes us worthy of salvation? And show me from scripture.PaulSacramento wrote:Rick, that doesn't make any sense.
Sorry.
If Jesus died for US it means that He values Us, there is no way around it.
Matthew 6: 26
26 Look at the birds of the air, that they do not sow, nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not worth much more than they?
Matthew 10:31
Fear not, therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows.
Romans 5:8
****edit
Paul, don't you understand salvation by grace? And that grace is unmerited? If we were worthy of salvation, we wouldn't need grace to be saved!
Rick,
If he VALUES us, it means He believes we are worthy.
WE don't have ANY right or reason to believe we are BUT God does.
I am not arguing against grace.
Unmerited favour means there is nothing you can DO not that you have no value.
Your outward profession of having put on Christ, has as yet to put off Plato from your heart!
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RickD
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Re: Salvation
Lonewolf wrote:Ephesians, chapter one comes to mind.PaulSacramento wrote:RickD wrote:Of course He values us. Because of who He is. Tell me then, what makes us worthy of salvation? And show me from scripture.PaulSacramento wrote:Rick, that doesn't make any sense.
Sorry.
If Jesus died for US it means that He values Us, there is no way around it.
Matthew 6: 26
26 Look at the birds of the air, that they do not sow, nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not worth much more than they?
Matthew 10:31
Fear not, therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows.
Romans 5:8
****edit
Paul, don't you understand salvation by grace? And that grace is unmerited? If we were worthy of salvation, we wouldn't need grace to be saved!
Rick,
If he VALUES us, it means He believes we are worthy.
WE don't have ANY right or reason to believe we are BUT God does.
I am not arguing against grace.
Unmerited favour means there is nothing you can DO not that you have no value.
Where does Ephesians 1 say we are worthy of salvation?
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony