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What? Apparently you don't know what OSAS stands for. Once Saved Always Saved. Mallz, OSAS says one cannot lose salvation. Your OSAS is not OSAS. Were you sleeping when you wrote this?
Haha, yes I know OSAS is Once Saved Always Saved.
My question is: If we are born saved then lose our salvation which would be the only way to gain salvation by choice, how could OSAS be true?
What? Apparently you don't know what OSAS stands for. Once Saved Always Saved. Mallz, OSAS says one cannot lose salvation. Your OSAS is not OSAS. Were you sleeping when you wrote this?
Haha, yes I know OSAS is Once Saved Always Saved.
My question is: If we are born saved then lose our salvation which would be the only way to gain salvation by choice, how could OSAS be true?
Where are you getting the idea we are born saved?
John 5:24 24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
John 5:24 24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
This is evidenced in Mallz prooftext of Matthew 15:24. It does take works to follow Christ. So, what he is saying is to hell with right division. Just take anything in scripture and apply it without any regard to proper exegesis. Jesus said it, therefore you must apply it. So, go sell all you have and give to the poor to receive salvation. Uh wait.....?
Explain the differences between salvation and discipleship to me. Because I'm thinking anyone saved will become a disciple of Christ which is in part fulfilling the reason of our existence.
Don't for once consider that Jesus' earthly ministry was to Israel, regarding God's promises to make them a light to the nations. Ignore the fact that Paul never once mentions discipleship, or 'following' as explained by Jesus. And ignore the fact that Paul was hand picked to be the apostle to the Gentiles, not Peter or any of the 12.
Matthew 16:24
If salvation has nothing to do with discipleship, then I was wrong to use this passage. I don't currently believe that, and also think this verse helps affirm it. If I'm wrong, explain to me why.
Last edited by Mallz on Mon Oct 27, 2014 4:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
I think you brought up a good point. And tbh I don't have the answer to your questions. I've never thought about it the way you phrased it. You have me intrigued. I'm gonna do some searching on this.
John 5:24 24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
Is it not true? Do babies or children who die go to heaven or go to hell? What happens to them? <--real question...
Those that are to young to understand what it is to have faith in Christ will be saved by His grace and love according to His will.
Remember that the spirit returns to God when we die, regardless of age and sin.
After the resurrection however, comes judgment on those that have done good (resurrection of life) and bad (resurrection of judgment).
John 5:19-29
Of course children and babies are in heaven. The notion that God would send a child to hell is unfathomable. So in that regard I guess we are all born saved. I do not intend to take away the absolute tradegy placed upon people when children die, especially parents, it is a pain that recently I have seen first hand with my cousins son and his Dad is Struggling in ways that I can only imagine, but it is seen as the ultimate act of cruelty whether people place that on God or on the randomness of life. These children are in a place that hurt, loneliness, pain does not and cannot even register. Complete peace and surrounded by love. They are in the presence and loving embrace of Jesus and The Father. The tradegy is that we don't get to have our days lit up by their bright smiles, but death is not a tradegy. There is no fear attached to death especially for the children.
Then we start walking a fine line. When exactly does a child become accountable? A 15 year old is still very much a child, but also capable of very poor choices, but done so with extremely limited reasoning of life experience. We expect children of this age to make mistakes and usually quite a few of them, I don't think their Heavenly Father would be any different.
I have previously looked into the age of accountability and couldn't find any definitive answers. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?
When we consider the fate of young children and babies, as they would not seem capable of understanding their guilt, sin, the requirement for repentance, the necessity of faith in Christ, the Gospel, etc., we must also include the issue of those with severe mental disorders, those not capable of the necessary understandings related to all of this. Yes, we do know of God's merciful, loving character. We do see how David responded with confidence after the death of his and Bathsheba's child. We do know that God sometimes God sovereignly allows such individuals to die - would we conclude that He has put them in a situation whereas they have no opportunity to be saved? That He doesn't love them? These make no sense. So, why is Scripture not absolutely clear about this issue? I believe it has to do with how many would sinfully misuse such an understanding, that all such deceased children or the mentally disabled automatically go to Heaven. I could see some (likely not Christians) might pervert this into false doctrines allowing for abortion or euthanasia.
We just have to trust in Gods wisdom and mercy.
The bible says that the measure we use to judge others is the measure that will be used to judge us. Children do not judge, that is the beauty of innocence. Intectually disabled people do not view the world like others, there is a simplicity that they can't escape. I think within that simplicity there isn't the avenue for arrogance and judgmental tendencies. I often look at the intectually disabled and think of how truly wonderful that day will be when they enter into Our Fathers Kingdom and are restored beyond the glory that they could never attain in this world. Their day of perfection will come.
Yes once saved always saved however not everybody who claims to be saved is really saved however if you have been you know it and never forget it.But just because you are saved you will not have many treasures in heaven if you don't lay up your treasures in heaven,also we receive rewards and crowns for accomplishing God's will in our lives and if you were a lazy Christian you may make it to heaven but you won't have much treasure stored up and so there are consequences for not being in God's will for your life as a Christian as I believe not every preacher in a ministry was actually called to do that and yet they are doing it against God's will,this is why it is important to seek God and find out his will for your life and your specific calling and it is not always being a preacher or minister.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.
Yes all babies that die go to heaven as they are not of the age to make a decision to accept Jesus as their savior so they are automatically justified by God up until they can make a decision then it is on them.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.
So, another-words. There are people who once were saved and no longer are. Not even looking at scripture there is an issue with OSAS.
If salvation is a gift, it's a gift that can be accepted and rejected. But this gift is given to those 'not of the age of reason' and then that gift is taken away once they hit 'the age of reason' which is going to be most presumptuously different for everyone.
And correct me if I'm wrong, but blaspheming the Holy Spirit I've seen argued here countless time can only be done by a creation who knows God, Who and What He is, all One of Him. So how could someone blaspheme the Holy Spirit who was never once saved? Especially if using the argument that those who aren't saved never believed to begin with?
If someone would like to enlighten my train of reasoning because I'm not seeing any holes yet....
