1861, French Academy of Science list of 51 scientific facts

[chessman]

Does anyone know where to obtain a listing of the 51 facts of science supposedly contradicted by the Bible referenced by several Christian authors/pastors? Adrain Rogers has a footnote in his book "What Every Christian Ought to Know: Essential Truths for Growing Your Faith By Adrian Rogers" but I do not have the book. I also suspect he may simply be referencing another source of the information versus the listing itself. It's unclear to me, after performing a web search, whether there ever really was a published listing or not. Some say yes, some say no.

[Jac3510]

Rogers references W. A. Criswell's The Bible for Today's World (Zondervan, 1965), page 17. Unfortunately, Criswell offers nothing beyond the following assertion:

• Did you know that in 1861 (that is just about 100 years ago) the French Academy of Science published a little brochure in which they stated fifty-one scientific facts that controverted the Word of God? Today there is not a scientist in the world who believes a single one of those fifty-one so-called scientific facts that in 1861 were published as controverting the Word of God. not a one!

And that's all he wrote . . . no reference, no nothing.

I did a bit of Googling and found a a newsgroup post that you may find interesting. The individual claims to have spoken with the FAS and have received the following response:

• We did not find in the tables of the Reports of the Academy of Science in 1861 the existence of such a list. Nothing makes it possible to affirm that this list existed.

So, I don't know. Take it for what it is worth.

God bless

[Furstentum Liechtenstein]

I did a bit of Googling and found a a newsgroup post that you may find interesting. The individual claims to have spoken with the FAS and have received the following response:We did not find in the tables of the Reports of the Academy of Science in 1861 the existence of such a list. Nothing makes it possible to affirm that this list existed.So, I don't know. Take it for what it is worth.

I went to the Academie's website,

http://www.academie-sciences.fr

...and spent some time searching their archives (all in French) and nothing remotely having to do with God, the Bible, prophecy or anything else «religious» turned up.

This story smells like a fake.

FL

[chessman]

Thanks to jac3510 and Fürstentum Liechtenstein for your time/reply. French is "Greek to me", so it would have done me no good to look at their website.

But both points you two bring up is why I asked the question in the first place. You see this brochure mentioned in several modern books and sermons but I've never seen a copy.

I suspect that record keeping in 1861 (year after signing of the "Treaty of Turin) wasn't the best in the world. Even for the French. I doubt the Academy would have any effort to publish a "Brochure" from 1861 on their website either. So, I'm not going so far as to say it was never published. I just will not be claiming it did, without a little more justification.

I have no doubt that a list of "scientific facts" published in 1861 (if there was one) would contain many fact of the time that are no longer considered accurate/fact. Yet a collection of 66 entire books (many that were written thousands (not 150) years ago) which does contain hundreds of "scientific facts" yet all are still factual and error free. Amazing, really.

Interestingly, The Greek word atom means; uncuttable, or indivisible, something that cannot be divided further. Still was considered "factual" in 1861 yet the Bible says otherwise: "Proverbs 26:22 (New American Standard Bible)
The words of a whisperer are like dainty morsels, And they go down into the innermost parts of the body."

[Furstentum Liechtenstein]

You see this brochure mentioned in several modern books and sermons but I've never seen a copy.

You've never seen a copy because it most probably never existed.

I suspect that record keeping in 1861 (year after signing of the "Treaty of Turin) wasn't the best in the world. Even for the French. I doubt the Academy would have any effort to publish a "Brochure" from 1861 on their website either. So, I'm not going so far as to say it was never published. I just will not be claiming it did, without a little more justification.

The Academie's archives go back to 1666 a.d. I can understand that you really want to believe that 51 eminent scientists wrote foolishness about the Bible and had the audacity to publish a brochure. It makes a good story for our side, after all.

Be careful about assuming poor record keeping in 1861 as well. Some atheists use a similar argument when they say that the Bible cannot possibly be accurate because people ''back then'' were illiterate, unsophisticated and belived in all kinds of hocus pocus.

Did you know that there are many non-existant Antarctic islands on maps still available today? The islands were invented by sealers to throw off competing vessels from harvesting where seals really were. Falsehood dies hard because people want to believe a story that's too good to be true.

Truth is stranger than fiction because we have made fiction to suit ourselves. -Ravi Zacharias

So...don't spread that Brochure story until you have ironclad evidence that it is true.

FL

Edited to remove French accents

[chessman]

You've never seen a copy because it most probably never existed. ...
The Académie's archives go back to 1666 a.d.
FL

The Academy may have hard archives dating back to 1666 but evidently they've made no attempt to digitize anything older than 1888 and place them on the web. Their site has the following statement:

"The French Academy of Sciences has always taken care to preserve its records. However, it was not until the 1880s that its collections, including those for the oldest periods, were reconstituted."

at http://www.academie-sciences.fr/archive ... ite_gb.htm

They suggest this site,
http://gallica.bnf.fr/advancedsearch?lang=en ,

which I searched but, not knowing French, it's difficult. I did find this book (not a brochure) using the little French I do know.

http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k5 ... esMatieres

However, I'm unsure if this may be related, but suspect it does.

Anyway, thanks again for your time/concern and I hope that maybe others might have more information on an original "French 51".

Chessman

[Furstentum Liechtenstein]

The Academy may have hard archives dating back to 1666 but evidently they've made no attempt to digitize anything older than 1888 and place them on the web.

OK, I'll take your word for it.

which I searched but, not knowing French, it's difficult. I did find this book (not a brochure) using the little French I do know. http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k5 ... resHowever, I'm unsure if this may be related, but suspect it does.

The book you provided a link for, du Materialisme au point de vue des sciences naturelles, relates to the topic we are discussing but goes in the opposite direction! It recognizes God's benevolence in having provided man with a marvellous universe. (I nearly fell off my chair!)

Do you happen to know the title of this elusive brochure we are looking for?

FL

Edited to remove French accents

[chessman]

Many thanks again for taking the time to look.

Do you happen to know the title of this elusive brochure we are looking for?

No, I do not have "the title". Jac3510 posted the quote from Criswell's 1965 book earlier (which is about the first reference I know of) but the "reference" listed there or elsewhere does not list Title, author, ISBN, etc. I've simply seen the statement made in other books and heard it in sermons but nothing listing an exact title. I'm skeptical of an actual list from 1861 (maybe not as much as yourself) but I'd follow the evidence wherever it lead.

Maybe having this tread/post will yield more information from others. But I understand this forum is not on the search engines, so maybe not.

[mlm]

I also searched for this document, but then it occurred to me that I don't have to look much further than my school age science text books for scientific "facts" that controvert the Word of God that scientists don't believe (but teachers still teach). For example, how much more faked evidence do we need for evolution? Or in the words of wikipedia, "allegedly fraudulent embryo drawings" that "assumes (but is not crucial to) the evolutionary concept of common descent." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embryo_dra ... 34-1919.29 downloaded 4/12/2012 at 9:50pm ET.

[HyperspaceChief]

Interesting thread. I came across an older reference to this as well and found this thread as I was looking for further insight. The reference I found was from the following:
Rimmer, Harry, D.D., SC.D; "The Harmony of Science and Scripture" (Grand Rapids; Eerdmans Pub. Co., 1936, 5th Ed.) page 59.

"The reader may recall that famous list of fifty-one scientific facts published by the French Academy of Science in 1861, all of which contradicted some statement of the Scripture. Those few score years have gone by, and not one word of the Bible has been changed. In those same few score years, the knowledge of science has so vastly increased that there is not a living man of science today who holds one of those fifty-one so-called facts that were at one time advanced in refutation of the inspiration of Scripture."

Rimmer did not include any reference as to establishing this. Interesting that he says: "the reader may recall" as if there perhaps were some articles or discussion that were going on in the early 1900's about this.

Rimmer's book is interesting and I came across it as I was investigating stories of modern day Jonah's or people who had survived being swallowed by a whale or similar. Rimmer documented several accounts and some later 20th century writers were quoting him.

Thanks for the help; wish there was a clear link to that 1861 document.

[Furstentum Liechtenstein]

Thanks for the help; wish there was a clear link to that 1861 document.

You won't find a link because the document has never existed. From what I have been able to put together, ''the document'' probably was a spoof on du Materialisme au point de vue des sciences naturelles.

Spoofs by satirists and outright frauds are common:

Did you know that there are many non-existant Antarctic islands on maps still available today? The islands were invented by sealers to throw off competing vessels from harvesting where seals really were. Falsehood dies hard because people want to believe a story that's too good to be true.

Remember Piltdown Man?

People lie! Here is a popular example of a perverted quote still in vogue today:

''The Church is a whore! but she's my mother.'' Usually attributed to Augustine, this gem actually came from social activist Dorothy Day. The perverts modified Dorothy Day's original quote which was, ''Though she is a harlot at times, she is our mother.'' Miss Day was speaking of the Roman Catholic Church.

Stop referring to the 1861 Academie francaise list until you can invent a copy. Remember to use period paper and vegetable-based ink. You'll also have to practice French penmanship and syntax from the 19th century...good luck!

FL

[Starhunter]

There were a lot of rumblings in science in the 1860's. This was a century of enlightenment and the discoveries were coming in fast. Nearly all of our modern technology has its base in the discoveries of that century. For example, the relationship between electricity and magnetism.
This boom in knowledge was due to the results of the reformation which allowed freedom of thought, individuality, equality, and direct connection to God for the pardon of sins and communication through prayer and Bible study.
Previous examples to this era were men like Isaac Newton whose favorite book was the Bible.
The connection to the God the Source of all knowledge opened up the doors of invention and discovery, directly with some and indirectly with others affected by new freedoms in society.

Had this trend continued, the world would be in a different and far more advanced state than today. But there was a turn from truth at this stage. The effects of the French revolution with its independent push against godliness will annihilate creationism and eventually the name of God from science. These moves were sudden and draconian, causing science societies to be galvanized by making formal statements about their pursuits, in the hope of fashionable recognition and financial support for research.
But it did not turn out that way, not by a long shot. There are two types of science today, the recognized and the secret.
Yet despite all efforts to deliberately avoid true knowledge of matter, the world is constantly close to finding out what has been kept secret.

For example, look up in a Physics reference library, and see how they treat the topics of heat and mechanical energy as distinctly different subjects. Some libraries will even warn the reader not to get the two confused. Why?
Here is one of the major keys to understanding the secret technology, the relationship between mechanical and heat energy. On an atomic level these two are identically the same function, as are also any other physical properties interchangeable at this level. Light can be turned to heat, heat to mechanical energy, to sound, to electricity, to magnetism, to ionic charge, these are all interchangeable.
Which means that the basic function of atoms can be altered, and that certain physical states of matter can be changed.
This we already know happens in chemical reactions, but what if we knew how to change the function of the atoms themselves?

[1over137]

Edited to remove French accents

Hey I just wanted to do it via database. This thread was to serve me to see if fix was applied.

I already fixed ü

[Furstentum Liechtenstein]

Hey I just wanted to do it via database. This thread was to serve me to see if fix was applied.

OK... here is a test:

àÀ éÉ èÈ êÊ ëË ïÏ ôÔ öÖ ùÙ ûÛ üÜ

The system prints them on the screen but in time they turn into silly characters.

FL

Edit: added a diacresis and made everything bigger.