http://www.godsplanforall.com/translations
http://www.godsplanforall.com/mistranslationstomeanhell
http://www.matthewmcgee.org/helwords.html
Hell pagan?
-
UsagiTsukino
- Valued Member
- Posts: 360
- Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:10 am
- Christian: Yes
- Sex: Female
- Creation Position: Theistic Evolution
-
PaulSacramento
- Board Moderator
- Posts: 9224
- Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:29 pm
- Christian: Yes
- Sex: Male
- Creation Position: Theistic Evolution
- Location: Ontario, Canada
Re: Hell pagan?
The issue is a simple one.
Does the bible say that there is eternal torment for non-believers that reject Christ?
Yes, Revelation 20:
7 When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison, 8 and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore. 9 And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them. 12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15 And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
The lake of fire is where satan, the beast, the false prophet and all those not found in the book of life will be thrown into "and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."
Is this lake of fire Hell?
No.
Does Hell exist?
Yes, Jesus said so when He used the term Sheol or Ghenna or Hades, depending on which audience He was speaking to.
Remember the parable of Lazarus?
The Rich Man and Lazarus
19 “Now there was a rich man, and he habitually dressed in purple and fine linen, joyously living in splendor every day. 20 And a poor man named Lazarus was laid at his gate, covered with sores, 21 and longing to be fed with the crumbs which were falling from the rich man’s table; besides, even the dogs were coming and licking his sores. 22 Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham’s bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and *saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 And he cried out and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.’ 27 And he said, ‘Then I beg you, father, that you send him to my father’s house— 28 for I have five brothers—in order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’ 29 But Abraham *said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 But he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent!’ 31 But he said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.’”
Jesus here tells us ( as related by Luke, which means it was a tradition that was being passed on by the apostles) that the rich man died and went to Hades ( He uses Hades because Hellenistic Jews and any gentiles that may be hearing would understand what was going on) where he was torment, agony in flames.
Jesus would NOT state something that does NOT happen in a parable that makes the point of what WILL happen to those that do not follow His teachings.
The issue of the term "hell" is one of wordage, that's all.
Hell gives us the picture of a place of eternal torment and pain, typically because we associate it with the lake of fire in which hell will be thrown in at the end of days.
The issue seems that at times Jesus spoke of that Time ( the end) as if it were to happen at the moment of ones death ( like the parable) BUT I don't think he meant it that way.
Death is the price we pay for sin, that is why we all die, BUT judgement comes after the resurrection and then comes the torment for some.
Does the bible say that there is eternal torment for non-believers that reject Christ?
Yes, Revelation 20:
7 When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison, 8 and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore. 9 And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them. 12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15 And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
The lake of fire is where satan, the beast, the false prophet and all those not found in the book of life will be thrown into "and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."
Is this lake of fire Hell?
No.
Does Hell exist?
Yes, Jesus said so when He used the term Sheol or Ghenna or Hades, depending on which audience He was speaking to.
Remember the parable of Lazarus?
The Rich Man and Lazarus
19 “Now there was a rich man, and he habitually dressed in purple and fine linen, joyously living in splendor every day. 20 And a poor man named Lazarus was laid at his gate, covered with sores, 21 and longing to be fed with the crumbs which were falling from the rich man’s table; besides, even the dogs were coming and licking his sores. 22 Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham’s bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and *saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 And he cried out and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.’ 27 And he said, ‘Then I beg you, father, that you send him to my father’s house— 28 for I have five brothers—in order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’ 29 But Abraham *said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 But he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent!’ 31 But he said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.’”
Jesus here tells us ( as related by Luke, which means it was a tradition that was being passed on by the apostles) that the rich man died and went to Hades ( He uses Hades because Hellenistic Jews and any gentiles that may be hearing would understand what was going on) where he was torment, agony in flames.
Jesus would NOT state something that does NOT happen in a parable that makes the point of what WILL happen to those that do not follow His teachings.
The issue of the term "hell" is one of wordage, that's all.
Hell gives us the picture of a place of eternal torment and pain, typically because we associate it with the lake of fire in which hell will be thrown in at the end of days.
The issue seems that at times Jesus spoke of that Time ( the end) as if it were to happen at the moment of ones death ( like the parable) BUT I don't think he meant it that way.
Death is the price we pay for sin, that is why we all die, BUT judgement comes after the resurrection and then comes the torment for some.
-
crochet1949
- Esteemed Senior Member
- Posts: 1467
- Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2014 1:04 am
- Christian: Yes
- Sex: Female
- Creation Position: Young-Earth Creationist
Re: Hell pagan?
In Revelation we are told that Satan, the beast and the false prophet are thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone for ever and ever. There are indications that there are various degrees of hell. No body wants to believe that 'simply rejecting salvation' will be bad enough to suffer in hell like satanic trinity will. And what about those who've lived 'pretty good lives' but simply haven't accepted Christ as Savior. Dr. David Jeremiah made a comment that in His study about hell -- it's simply Not a place anyone would Want to be in for eternity. So -- why not simply accept Salvation? And maybe some of the torture a person will endure will be remembering all the times believers had shared the Gospel unto salvation with them and they refused -- they'd laugh at the idea. All the 'if only''s '