John 19

[Christian2]

John 19: John 19:25-27Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

Jesus’ Provision for His Mother

25 Standing by the cross of Jesus were His mother, His mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene. 26 When Jesus saw His mother and the disciple He loved standing there, He said to His mother, “Woman, here is your son.” 27 Then He said to the disciple, “Here is your mother.” And from that hour the disciple took her into his home.

How are we supposed to read this Scripture? Is it saying that Mary's sister was Mary the wife of Clopas?

Or, is it saying standing at the cross were:

Virgin Mary
Mary's sister (unnamed)
Mary the wife of Clopas, and
Mary Magdalene

4 women...

It is hard to believe that Mary also had a sister named Mary.

Who exactly was Mary the wife of Clopas?

Did Clopas have children? What were their names?

Did the Virgin Mary have a sister? If so, what was her name and did she have children.

Thanks.

[PaulSacramento]

4 Women but really, why does it matter?

[Christian2]

4 Women but really, why does it matter?

It matters to me. I'm working on a project.

Thanks.

[Jac3510]

I've never looked at this, but it's interesting nonetheless. It would look to me like there were only three women at the Cross: Mary Jesus' mother, Clopas' wife Mary (Jesus' aunt), and Mary Magdelene. Here's the Greek text.

• εἱστήκεισαν δὲ παρὰ τῷ σταυρῷ τοῦ Ἰησοῦ ἡ μήτηρ αὐτοῦ καὶ ἡ ἀδελφὴ τῆς μητρὸς αὐτοῦ Μαρία ἡ τοῦ Κλωπᾶ καὶ Μαρία ἡ Μαγδαληνή

Look at the words I put in bold and underlined. That word, "kai" roughly means "and." What it reall does is connect the ideas on either side of it. So to look at it a bit more clearly (using transliteration in italics for clarity, English translation in quotation marks and parentheses):

• eistekeisan de para to stauro tou Iesou ("Now there stook before the Cross of Jesus")
  • he meter autou ("His mother") KAI ("and")
    he adelfe tes metros autou Maria he tou Klopa ("the sister of his mother Mary of Clopas") KAI ("and")
    Maria he Magdalene ("Mary of Magdelene")

Now, there is no requirement in the Greek that Mary of Clopas and Jesus' aunt are the same person. But given the placements of the kais, it would seem odd for them to be different people and there be no kai present. In other words, if they were different people, I would have expected this:

• he adelfe tes metros autou ("the sister of his mother") KAI
  Maria he tou Klopa ("the sister of his mother Mary of Clopas") KAI ("and")

Of course, we don't have that break. Now if someone thinks they are different people, they would need to give some reason to break them . . . perhaps there is something in the context or something in the Synoptics to make one think that. But if we were to look at this verse alone, I think we would conclude that there were three women only.

[Christian2]

I've never looked at this, but it's interesting nonetheless. It would look to me like there were only three women at the Cross: Mary Jesus' mother, Clopas' wife Mary (Jesus' aunt), and Mary Magdelene. Here's the Greek text.

• εἱστήκεισαν δὲ παρὰ τῷ σταυρῷ τοῦ Ἰησοῦ ἡ μήτηρ αὐτοῦ καὶ ἡ ἀδελφὴ τῆς μητρὸς αὐτοῦ Μαρία ἡ τοῦ Κλωπᾶ καὶ Μαρία ἡ Μαγδαληνή

Look at the words I put in bold and underlined. That word, "kai" roughly means "and." What it reall does is connect the ideas on either side of it. So to look at it a bit more clearly (using transliteration in italics for clarity, English translation in quotation marks and parentheses):

• eistekeisan de para to stauro tou Iesou ("Now there stook before the Cross of Jesus")
  • he meter autou ("His mother") KAI ("and")
    he adelfe tes metros autou Maria he tou Klopa ("the sister of his mother Mary of Clopas") KAI ("and")
    Maria he Magdalene ("Mary of Magdelene")

Now, there is no requirement in the Greek that Mary of Clopas and Jesus' aunt are the same person. But given the placements of the kais, it would seem odd for them to be different people and there be no kai present. In other words, if they were different people, I would have expected this:

• he adelfe tes metros autou ("the sister of his mother") KAI
  Maria he tou Klopa ("the sister of his mother Mary of Clopas") KAI ("and")

Of course, we don't have that break. Now if someone thinks they are different people, they would need to give some reason to break them . . . perhaps there is something in the context or something in the Synoptics to make one think that. But if we were to look at this verse alone, I think we would conclude that there were three women only.

Thank you Jac. I was just about to take this subject to a Biblical Languages board to find out what the Greek text would reveal, but you have taken care of it.

I wonder if you might know of any Church history that would indicate that the Virgin Mary remarried after Joseph died. According to Jewish law Joseph's brother would be obligated to make the offer of marriage, although the lady would not be forced to marry him.

Thank you.

[Jac3510]

I do not know of any such texts. But I don't know that I would expect any, anyway. Didn't the Levirate marriage only apply if the widow had no children by the deceased husband? Where there were children, the man's brother would not be obligated to marry her and provide her with children. And since Mary had Jesus, at least, that would seem to mean that Joseph's brothers would not have been obligated to marry her and provide her with other children.

In other words, ALL widows were not to be remarried to their husband's brothers. Just the childless ones, which Mary was not. That's my understanding of things, anyway.

[Christian2]

I do not know of any such texts. But I don't know that I would expect any, anyway. Didn't the Levirate marriage only apply if the widow had no children by the deceased husband? Where there were children, the man's brother would not be obligated to marry her and provide her with children. And since Mary had Jesus, at least, that would seem to mean that Joseph's brothers would not have been obligated to marry her and provide her with other children.

In other words, ALL widows were not to be remarried to their husband's brothers. Just the childless ones, which Mary was not. That's my understanding of things, anyway.

I'll check into that.

[PaulSacramento]

Going over what jac wrote I stand corrected.
I wondered where I got the idea there were 4...
Then I remembered Mathew and Mark and the other Mary, the mother of James and Joses.
And there was also the mother of John and James Zebedees.
Of course these could all be the "same people':

1. Mary Magdalene (mentioned by Matthew, Mark, and John)
2. Mary the mother of James and Joses (mentioned by Matthew and Mark)
3. The mother of Zebedee's sons (mentioned by Matthew)
4. Salome (mentioned by Mark) -- Many scholars think that this is the same person as (3), the mother of Zebedee's sons
5. Mary the mother of Jesus (mentioned by John)
6. Mary the wife of Clophas (who was probably Joseph's brother) (mentioned by John)
7. An un-named sister of Jesus' mother (mentioned by John) -- Many scholars think that this is the same person as (6), i.e., the wife of Clophas
8. The un-named Beloved Disciple (mentioned by John)