WHO ARE THE LOST TRIBES OF ISRAEL?

[LostTribesNotLost]

It matters for many reasons, many of which are self explanatory if you have read everything I have already written.
I matters to me, for the same reason that it matters to you (concerning the Jews).
But most of all: It matters to me, because it matters to the Father - and to the Son.

"Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises." - Romans 9:4

It matters because Christ sent his 12 disciples to the lost ten tribes and to them alone, to the divorced wife, not to Judah the wife who too was punished, but who was never divorced, and Christ died on the cross for her, so that He could marry her again, without breaking the marriage laws of Moses.
Matthew 15:24
Deuteronomy 24:4

If you cannot see why it matters, then you are not worthy to claim any kind of understanding of God's word - for understanding this is one of the most crucial parts.
The House of Israel was NEVER entirely forsaken by God outside of Palestine, and it was NEVER re-united with Judah in Palestine.

The House of Israel, like the House of Judah, was chosen by God, and has a special purpose.
As a Christian you should already be well aware of these important facts.

[1over137]

Matthew 15:21-28
21 Jesus went away from there, and withdrew into the district of Tyre and Sidon. 22 And a Canaanite woman from that region came out and began to cry out, saying, “Have mercy on me, Lord, Son of David; my daughter is cruelly demon-possessed.” 23 But He did not answer her a word. And His disciples came and implored Him, saying, “Send her away, because she keeps shouting [j]at us.” 24 But He answered and said, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” 25 But she came and began [k]to bow down before Him, saying, “Lord, help me!” 26 And He answered and said, “It is not [l]good to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs.” 27 But she said, “Yes, Lord; [m]but even the dogs feed on the crumbs which fall from their masters’ table.” 28 Then Jesus said to her, “O woman, your faith is great; it shall be done for you as you wish.” And her daughter was healed [n]at once.

[1over137]

Jesus also ministered in Samaritan city

John 4:1-45
4 Therefore when the Lord knew that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus was making and baptizing more disciples than John 2 (although Jesus Himself was not baptizing, but His disciples were), 3 He left Judea and went away again into Galilee. 4 And He had to pass through Samaria. 5 So He *came to a city of Samaria called Sychar, near the parcel of ground that Jacob gave to his son Joseph; 6 and Jacob’s well was there. So Jesus, being wearied from His journey, was sitting thus by the well. It was about [a]the sixth hour.

The Woman of Samaria
7 There *came a woman of Samaria to draw water. Jesus *said to her, “Give Me a drink.” 8 For His disciples had gone away into the city to buy food. 9 Therefore the Samaritan woman *said to Him, “How is it that You, being a Jew, ask me for a drink since I am a Samaritan woman?” (For Jews have no dealings with Samaritans.) 10 Jesus answered and said to her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, ‘Give Me a drink,’ you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.” 11 She *said to Him, “Sir, You have nothing to draw with and the well is deep; where then do You get that living water? 12 You are not greater than our father Jacob, are You, who gave us the well, and drank of it himself and his sons and his cattle?” 13 Jesus answered and said to her, “Everyone who drinks of this water will thirst again; 14 but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall never thirst; but the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life.”

15 The woman *said to Him, “[c]Sir, give me this water, so I will not be thirsty nor come all the way here to draw.” 16 He *said to her, “Go, call your husband and come here.” 17 The woman answered and said, “I have no husband.” Jesus *said to her, “You have correctly said, ‘I have no husband’; 18 for you have had five husbands, and the one whom you now have is not your husband; this you have said truly.” 19 The woman *said to Him, “[d]Sir, I perceive that You are a prophet. 20 Our fathers worshiped in this mountain, and you people say that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.” 21 Jesus *said to her, “Woman, believe Me, an hour is coming when neither in this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. 22 You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23 But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers. 24 God is [e]spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.” 25 The woman *said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming (He who is called Christ); when that One comes, He will declare all things to us.” 26 Jesus *said to her, “I who speak to you am He.”

27 At this point His disciples came, and they were amazed that He had been speaking with a woman, yet no one said, “What do You seek?” or, “Why do You speak with her?” 28 So the woman left her waterpot, and went into the city and *said to the men, 29 “Come, see a man who told me all the things that I have done; this is not [f]the Christ, is it?” 30 They went out of the city, and were coming to Him.

31 Meanwhile the disciples were urging Him, saying, “Rabbi, eat.” 32 But He said to them, “I have food to eat that you do not know about.” 33 So the disciples were saying to one another, “No one brought Him anything to eat, did he?” 34 Jesus *said to them, “My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me and to accomplish His work. 35 Do you not say, ‘There are yet four months, and then comes the harvest’? Behold, I say to you, lift up your eyes and look on the fields, that they are white for harvest. 36 Already he who reaps is receiving wages and is gathering fruit for life eternal; so that he who sows and he who reaps may rejoice together. 37 For in this case the saying is true, ‘One sows and another reaps.’ 38 I sent you to reap that for which you have not labored; others have labored and you have entered into their labor.”

The Samaritans
39 From that city many of the Samaritans believed in Him because of the word of the woman who testified, “He told me all the things that I have done.” 40 So when the Samaritans came to Jesus, they were asking Him to stay with them; and He stayed there two days. 41 Many more believed because of His word; 42 and they were saying to the woman, “It is no longer because of what you said that we believe, for we have heard for ourselves and know that this One is indeed the Savior of the world.”

43 After the two days He went forth from there into Galilee. 44 For Jesus Himself testified that a prophet has no honor in his own country. 45 So when He came to Galilee, the Galileans received Him, having seen all the things that He did in Jerusalem at the feast; for they themselves also went to the feast.

[RickD]

LTNL wrote:
If you cannot see why it matters, then you are not worthy to claim any kind of understanding of God's word - for understanding this is one of the most crucial parts.
The House of Israel was NEVER entirely forsaken by God outside of Palestine, and it was NEVER re-united with Judah in Palestine.

I asked why it matters, so I could hear why it's so important to you. If I asked another British Israelist, he might respond by saying, "it matters because it means if BI is true, then we(white Anglo Saxons) inherit all of God's promises for Israel". Or, "it matters because if BI is true, Great Britain inherits all blessings promised to Israel."

I'm just trying to find out why it's so important that you believe it, and feel you need to push it on everyone here, when clearly nobody is interested. Much in the same way I'd ask a Seventh Day Adventist who pushes his beliefs, why they're so important that he believes them, and feels he needs to push his beliefs on believers who disagree with him.

I'm trying to understand a little about your pov. I try to understand others that think differently from me. I don't have any unorthodox beliefs that I try to push on other believers, so I just don't get the whole concept of coming to a Christian forum and trying to sell something that others clearly don't want to buy.

[Philip]

If you cannot see why it matters, then you are not worthy to claim any kind of understanding of God's word - for understanding this is one of the most crucial parts

Wow, funny how the vast majority of inerrancy-believing evangelical theologians have totally missed this. Actually, name more than one or two theologians - and ANY whom are widely respected that believe this theology.

LostTribes, who do you believe will be saved? And do you believe salvation is available to ALL peoples, regardless of their nationality, blood/ancestory, or geographic affiliations?

[RickD]

If you cannot see why it matters, then you are not worthy to claim any kind of understanding of God's word - for understanding this is one of the most crucial parts

Wow, funny how the vast majority of inerrancy-believing evangelical theologians have totally missed this. Actually, name more than one or two theologians - and ANY whom are widely respected that believe this theology.

LostTribes, who do you believe will be saved? And do you believe salvation is available to ALL peoples, regardless of their nationality, blood/ancestory, or geographic affiliations?

Philip,

This is from the "our beliefs" section of the Orange Street church link from LostTribe's original post.

We Believe: That in the matter of personal salvation there is no distinction of race. All races are dependent upon the saving grace of the Lord Jesus.

I'd like to know what is meant by "personal" salvation, and why they felt they needed to clarify it as personal. Is there some other kind of salvation that only pertains to British Israelists?

Perhaps some kind of collective salvation?

[LostTribesNotLost]

Yes, Jesus did minister to a Samaritan woman in a city of Samaria.

I don't know what point you are trying to make as the Samaritans were Israelites who were not Jews/Judah, but of the Kingdom of Israel - the 10 tribes. (although she was of the small remnant that remained and not one of the LOST ten tribes, who Christ sent the disciples to, in regions outside of Palestine, as I have shown above.) She even said the following in the verses you quoted: "You are not greater than our father Jacob, are You, who gave us the well, and drank of it himself and his sons and his cattle?”

She was obviously one of those of the 10 percent left behind in Samaria (Northern Palestine) after the Assyrian captivity of 90 percent of Israel and most of Judah (excluding Jerusalem which was later captured by the king of Babylon - see 2 Kings 18:13).

In fact many mainstream Chritians don't even realise that the Samaritan (in the famous parable of The Good Samaritan) was in fact an inhabittant of Samaria - an Israelite, not a stranger - left behind after most of Israel was taken in the Assyrian captivity.

The Canaanite woman basically acknowledged that her people were last on the list of Christ's priorities - a nation condmed throughout the Old Testament.
In fact that is one of the reasons this story is even recited in the Bible - to convey this very message.
(if you read what He said to her initially and then her response to Him you will realize that)
Christ healed her daughter as a result of her acknowledgment of this and of her faith.

Christ's mission during His first coming, as any christian will tell you, was that of the redemption and the gospel (mainly to the Lost Ten Tribes) and not to judge.
His judgment is reserved for His second coming!!!

Phillip, judging by your remarks, you need to re-read what I have already written on here, obviously you have missed certain parts.

RickD, when all else fails and when there is nothing left to for you and/or your colleagues to accuse me of, you end off by falsely accusing me of pushing my beliefs onto other people on here. That could not be further from the truth.
I started a thread of my own on here, in a section which I am sure even you would deem appropriate and I then I invited people to comment and ask questions to which I have received nothing, but scorn and ridicule from my own people.
In no way did I push my beliefs of anyone.
I did not come onto your thread and bombard you with scorn and ridicule.
If anything it has been the other way around.

Most Christians don't know a thing about BI, so to say they are not interested is being very disengenuous.
It is my intention to educate them about BI and then let then decide for themselves.
I acknowledge BI is not a popular belief amongst Christians, but it is not a cult and it is every bit as Christian as every other denomination - if not more so.

You should understand what a cult is before you accuse other people of being a member of one.
I will use an older dictionary as the modern ones, may distort it's original meaning just as you do.
Here is the word "cult" according to "The Concise Oxford Dictionary of Current English 1934":

Cult, n. System of religious worship; devotion, homage, to person or thing.
As you can see, by this definition, most Christian churches could easily fall in the same category.

Even Wikipedia, which I don't always agree with is in agreement:
"The word "cult" was originally used not to describe a group of religionists, but for the act of worship or religious ceremony.
It was first used in the early 17th century, borrowed via the French culte from Latin cultus (worship), from the adjective cultus (inhabited, cultivated, worshiped), derived from the verb colere (care, cultivate).[9] The word "culture" is also derived from the Latin words cultura and cultus, which in general terms refers to the customary beliefs, social forms, and material traits of a racial, religious, or social group; also the characteristic features of everyday existence (as diversions or a way of life) shared by people in a place or time.[10]"

"In the sociological classifications of religious movements, a cult is a religious or other social group with socially deviant and novel beliefs and practices.[1] However, whether any particular group's beliefs and practices are sufficiently deviant or novel is often unclear, and thus establishing a precise definition based on these criteria is problematic.[2][3] The English word often carries derogatory connotations.[4][5]

"The word "cult" has been controversial. One reason is that it (as used in the pejorative sense) is considered a subjective term, used as an ad hominem attack against groups with simply differing doctrines or practices, and without a clear or consistent definition.[6]"

I have explained the purpose of this thread - to educate those not aware of these teachings and to respond to critics.
It was not my intent to prove who is, or is not entitled to Christ's salvation.
That is an important question, and is somewhat related, but not one which I aim to answer in this particular thread as I made clear from the beginning.
The core message in this thread is to show people who the modern day descendands of the Lost Ten Tribes of Israel are.

Through historical migrations, ancient linguistics, scriptural quotes and Bible prophesy, I feel I have done a good job of showing that, even though much of what I have revealed has been taken from other scholars work and even though there is still more to reveal.
I think I have done a good job at also refuting at least some of what the critics of BI have taught, in my words and in the words of others.

I am sorry if you were not convinced, but you are free to believe what you want, just as I am.
You are even free to believe that others reading this are as unconvinced as you are.

I hope I have given some (much needed) food for thought, to those who had never heard of these discoveries before.
I am sure there are others on here, besides those who have attacked me, who are more unbiased and willing to put in more self study in determining the truth for themselves, and even in a more constructive, engaging manner.

It is for them that I will continue to add more posts to this thread, if I decide to do so...

[Philip]

You should understand what a cult is before you accuse other people of being a member of one.
I will use an older dictionary as the modern ones, may distort it's original meaning just as you do.
Here is the word "cult" according to "The Concise Oxford Dictionary of Current English 1934":

Cult, n. System of religious worship; devotion, homage, to person or thing.
As you can see, by this definition, most Christian churches could easily fall in the same category.

Even Wikipedia, which I don't always agree with is in agreement:
"The word "cult" was originally used not to describe a group of religionists, but for the act of worship or religious ceremony.
It was first used in the early 17th century, borrowed via the French culte from Latin cultus (worship), from the adjective cultus (inhabited, cultivated, worshiped), derived from the verb colere (care, cultivate).[9] The word "culture" is also derived from the Latin words cultura and cultus, which in general terms refers to the customary beliefs, social forms, and material traits of a racial, religious, or social group; also the characteristic features of everyday existence (as diversions or a way of life) shared by people in a place or time.[10]"

"In the sociological classifications of religious movements, a cult is a religious or other social group with socially deviant and novel beliefs and practices.[1] However, whether any particular group's beliefs and practices are sufficiently deviant or novel is often unclear, and thus establishing a precise definition based on these criteria is problematic.[2][3] The English word often carries derogatory connotations.[4][5]

"The word "cult" has been controversial. One reason is that it (as used in the pejorative sense) is considered a subjective term, used as an ad hominem attack against groups with simply differing doctrines or practices, and without a clear or consistent definition.[6]"

It is irrelevant what some dictionary or wikipedia says a cult is. The Bible makes it clear: A cult is a perversion of the Gospel, based upon an unholy devotion to a person, a principle, often utilizing distorted and out-of-context Scriptures used to build a theological and belief system around.

LostTribes, you ignored a direct question that I am not going to go back and dig through all of your implied meanings to figure out:
Please answer: "LostTribes, who do you believe will be saved - what is the ONLY criteria? And do you believe salvation is available to ALL peoples and indidviduals, regardless of their nationality, blood/ancestory, or geographic affiliations?" And, I'll add, do you think whether one can be saved or not has ANYTHING to do with their bloodline or supposed lost tribal affiliation?

LT, you see, those here are ultimately concerned with people's salvation - although we do discuss many other topics - many related, some not. Christians here don't like mysticism, gnosticism, "lost" books, or hidden, obscure associations and connections that are highly debateable. Your asserted connections of Scripture and history is so obscure and implausible that it makes this BI stuff comes off like JFK or 911 conspiracy theories. You also didn't answer what well-respected theologians find credibility with BI. The mods here smell an ultimate agenda that will assert that asserted blood or ancestory somehow determines whether or not one even can, much less will, be saved. This is why people here are VERY suspicious of what you purport to be true. So, please answer my questions in the paragraph immdediately preceding this one, as your hopefully direct answers will shed some light on the aspects of BI we are most concerned about.

[LostTribesNotLost]

Where in the Bible does it say: "A cult is a perversion of the Gospel" ?

You say:

"LostTribes, you ignored a direct question that I am not going to go back and dig through all of your implied meanings to figure out."

- Firstly I did NOT ignore a direct question.
It was already answered - directly and with no implied meanings AT ALL!!! Saying it was not answered clearly enough is clear proof you never even read it to begin with.
- Secondly, why is it ok for you and your moderator colleagues to "ignore direct questions" of mine, but not the other way around?

Maybe you and your colleagues should stop ignoring "direct questions" and then maybe your "direct questions" will all be answered.
In fact maybe you should read what I write in it's entirety and you will see exactly how directly I already answered you (it's only a 2, or three comments above).

Your suspicions, and those of your moderator colleagues are no longer of any concern to me as you have all already proven yourself as unworthy critics, by not answering me on my questions to all of you and then continuing to denounce my work. Collectively you have also accused me of twisting scripture, but have provided no proof to back your accusations. No quotes to other scriptures which say the opposite, nothing at all. You have only quoted very few verses which show Christ will defend Jerusalem, but not any proof of who will be living in Jerusalem as that time.

On the contrary, my "connections of Scripture and history" are NOT - "so obscure and implausible so as to come across as a conspiracy theory."
Not at all.
I have taken some very literal prophesies and shown very directly, and clearly - in context and by cross referencing with other scriptures that say similar things - that the modern Jews have fulfilled very little prophesy, far less than modern Europeans.
I have also shown very clearly and literally, without twisting, or misinterpreting any scripture, that the majority of the Lost Ten Tribes never re-joined Judah/Jews in Palestine, or even returned to Samaria, but remained "lost"outside of Palestine (contrary to what those like David Baron and other critics assert).
I have shown this by quoting Christ and His very literal mention of them being "lost" and not living in "the cities of Samaria, or the way of the Gentiles" (i.e. in their own land) and I have also shown this by quoting the Bible where it clearly shows that only 10 percent remained in the cities of Samaria (northern Palestine) when Assyria deported 90 percent of each city of the ten tribes. I have also shown this by quoting verses that speak of the "remnant" left behind and the burden is on you to show that those who joined the Jews for Passover each year were more than just a tiny remnant of the ten tribed House of Israel.

If you can show where AND HOW I have misinterpreted scripture, then please do as I have been waiting all this time for someone to actually prove what they accuse me of doing. I think I have spoon-fed you enough by now.
How can you attain SALVATION when you reject the true identity of God's chosen people?

[RickD]

LTNL wrote:
RickD, when all else fails and when there is nothing left to for you and/or your colleagues to accuse me of, you end off by falsely accusing me of pushing my beliefs onto other people on here. That could not be further from the truth.
I started a thread of my own on here, in a section which I am sure even you would deem appropriate and I then I invited people to comment and ask questions to which I have received nothing, but scorn and ridicule from my own people.
In no way did I push my beliefs of anyone.
I did not come onto your thread and bombard you with scorn and ridicule.
If anything it has been the other way around.

Most Christians don't know a thing about BI, so to say they are not interested is being very disengenuous.
It is my intention to educate them about BI and then let then decide for themselves.
I acknowledge BI is not a popular belief amongst Christians, but it is not a cult and it is every bit as Christian as every other denomination - if not more so.

You should understand what a cult is before you accuse other people of being a member of one.
I will use an older dictionary as the modern ones, may distort it's original meaning just as you do.

Where in this thread did I call BI a cult? I read through the link you posted, and I don't consider the BI that orange street believes is a cult. In fact I was careful to compare BI to seventh day Adventist beliefs, to show I was comparing it to aberrant beliefs within Christianity, as opposed to a cult like Mormonism or Jehovah's witnesses.

LostTribes,

Whether or not you think it's fair, or whether or not you like it, the moderators here believe BI is wrong. Biblically and historically. If you are not willing to understand that YOU need to answer our questions regarding what you are here promoting, you won't last long here.
If you want to continue with this thread, you need to be willing to answer our questions. You won't be allowed to come into this forum and demand we do what you want. We are the moderators here who have been put in charge of this forum. If you don't like that, you are free to find somewhere else to preach your beliefs.

I would appreciate it if you start by addressing this:

I'd like to know what is meant by "personal" salvation, and why they felt they needed to clarify it as personal. Is there some other kind of salvation that only pertains to British Israelists?

Perhaps some kind of collective salvation?

[Philip]

You know, SAYING you have answered direct questions and ACTUALLY ANSWERING THEM are two very different things.

How can you attain SALVATION when you reject the true identity of God's chosen people?

Here seems to be a clue of what LT believes: So, you're saying that those who don't get it that those of the British Isles are the TRUE Lost Tribe remnants won't be able to be saved? Since when does salvation have ANYTHING to do with more than placing one's faith in Christ? It sounds very much like your BI views mean that one having them correctly understood, somehow impacts their ability to be saved. Really?!!!

[RickD]

LostTribes wrote:
How can you attain SALVATION when you reject the true identity of God's chosen people?

I don't know how I missed this one.

Attain
succeed in achieving (something that one desires and has worked for).

Seems I may have been wrong. LostTribes, if you think you can "attain" salvation, your beliefs are NOT in line with what scripture teaches about salvation by Grace, through faith, not by works.

[Philip]

I don't know how I missed this one.

Too much leftover turkey and Klown Cake!

[RickD]

I don't know how I missed this one.

Too much leftover turkey and Klown Cake!

It was probably too much pie.

[LostTribesNotLost]

You are probably right, maybe "attain" was the wrong word to use in reference to how one is granted salvation.
I agree with your definition of salvation.

However, if faith in Christ is the only requirement in being freely "granted" salvation, then what does faith in Christ actually mean?
It cannot mean, simply believing that Jesus was the Messiah, the Christ and the son of God - even the Devil believes that!!!

It also means believing in Christ's ablity to forgive sin and being repentent of sin (otherwise how could He forgive sin if you were not willing to give it up and repent of it).
You do not have to be without any history of sin, but even New Testament prophesies show that those who are unrepentant of sin will be destroyed after Christ's second coming. I am sure you can agree with me that unrepentant sinners will NOT be saved by Christ's grace if they don't repent before they die. I am sure you will agree that unrepentant sinners will NOT be granted Grace at Christ's judgment.

But, what is an example of sin?
An example of sin is cursing (true) Israel without just cause.
That is why the Bible says God will curse those who curse Israel and bless those who bless Israel.
(I dont remember the exact verse right now, but I am sure you will agree it exists.)
If I am wrong then please explain to me: How can you be granted salvation and at the same time be cursed?
You are heading in the direction of cursing Israel by denying her true identity despite the evidence I have shown you.

If you are repentant of cursing Israel (and other sins) before you die your first death, then you will not encounter the second death (as the Bible calls it) and you will freely receive Christ's grace even though you are a past sinner that doesn't deserve His grace.

This is why I am encouraging people to know who Israel is so that they know who this verse applies to and will not curse Israel out of ignorance (but the main reason is NOT in order to be granted salvation, it is so that they know if they are Israel and as a result are given the responsibility and reward that comes with being Israel as I have already explained).

Doesn't "placing ones faith in Christ" include being repentant of sin?

Regarding the cult reference, I was actually addressing Phillip's accusation of BI being a cult, not RickD.
Apologies that I was not more clear on that, as I often address more than one person on here within one paragraph, or even sometimes in one sentence, although I don't always refer to who I am responding to by name (just to speed things up a bit on here).

Please refer me to the section in the discussion guidlines where it says that refusing to answer a question from a moderator is grounds for being banned on the forums.
If you can do that then I will answer, even if it means copying and pasting what I have already written which couldn't be more clear - even to a 5 year old.