Hostage situation in Sydney

[melanie]

There are believed to be 20 hostages being held in a Sydney cafe in Martin Place.
I pray for the police and hostages and a peaceful outcome.
It is unfolding and there are no clear details but hostages were photographed at the cafe window and it looks like they are holding up an Islamic state flag. But it is also not unusual for shops in this area to display the flags. So it is unclear.
Reports are coming in that there are more than 20 hostages and more than one gunman which has been previously reported.
I pray it ends shortly with no deaths.

[RickD]

I heard about this on my way in to work this morning. There's a lot I'd like to say regarding this. But I'll just say that I pray it all gets worked out, and all hostages are released safely.

[melanie]

I heard about this on my way in to work this morning. There's a lot I'd like to say regarding this. But I'll just say that I pray it all gets worked out, and all hostages are released safely.

I pray for that also.
5 people have escaped but little information is available. What we do know is an undisclosed number of people have been held hostage since this morning.
It is shocking and my heart goes out to these people and their families.

Rick if there is a lot you would like to say then say it!
I think that open, honest discussion is important and needed regardless if we all agree. It is not lost on me that directly after my posts on another thread details regarding this hostage situation started flowing in in regards to it being tied to an Islamic extremist.
But it is far too early to tell in what regards and whether he is acting alone.
This is a very real, relevant issue that has been brought home today in my own backyard, so to speak.
But let's talk, let's open it up to discussion. It is probably one of the most pressing, relevant issues in today's climate, shutting down such discussion as shameful I think is shameful in itself.

[RickD]

Melanie,

Even here in the US, it was the number 1 news story this morning. Terrorism is global now. And it's very difficult when it hits home. Fighting a war on terrorism is a difficult challenge. It's unlike any other war. It's not like fighting against a country with boundaries. These militant Islamists have no borders. They will stop at nothing in their attempts to bring the whole world under sharia.

That's why anyone who wants to have any success at all in stopping these people, needs to do anything necessary to stop them. They play by no rules. They make their own rules up. It's either play better than them at their own game, or succumb to Islam.

[PaulSacramento]

Melanie,

Even here in the US, it was the number 1 news story this morning. Terrorism is global now. And it's very difficult when it hits home. Fighting a war on terrorism is a difficult challenge. It's unlike any other war. It's not like fighting against a country with boundaries. These militant Islamists have no borders. They will stop at nothing in their attempts to bring the whole world under sharia.

That's why anyone who wants to have any success at all in stopping these people, needs to do anything necessary to stop them. They play by no rules. They make their own rules up. It's either play better than them at their own game, or succumb to Islam.

Sorry Rick, I disagree.
The whole point of terrorism IS to make the targets do what they KNOW they shouldn't do and that includes become what they set out to stop.
If we become what we most despise then we have lost.

[RickD]

Melanie,

Even here in the US, it was the number 1 news story this morning. Terrorism is global now. And it's very difficult when it hits home. Fighting a war on terrorism is a difficult challenge. It's unlike any other war. It's not like fighting against a country with boundaries. These militant Islamists have no borders. They will stop at nothing in their attempts to bring the whole world under sharia.

That's why anyone who wants to have any success at all in stopping these people, needs to do anything necessary to stop them. They play by no rules. They make their own rules up. It's either play better than them at their own game, or succumb to Islam.

Sorry Rick, I disagree.
The whole point of terrorism IS to make the targets do what they KNOW they shouldn't do and that includes become what they set out to stop.
If we become what we most despise then we have lost.

Paul,
The point of militant Islamic terrorism is to bring the whole world under Islam, or kill those who refuse. Or just kill anyways.

If we become what we most despise then we have lost.

If we despise killing in the name of satan, how do we become "killing in the name of satan" if we defend ourselves and protect others from being killed?

If we all give in and don't fight back, we are dead. Then we have lost.

I really don't understand the liberal mindset. Maybe we could try what Israel has tried with [sarcasm] so much success [/sarcasm]. Appease the Islamists with hopes they'll just stop terrorizing.

[PaulSacramento]

I'm a liberal now?
Sheesh.

[RickD]

I'm a liberal now?
Sheesh.

I didn't say you are a liberal. But your mindset in this is a liberal mindset.

[PaulSacramento]

I'm a liberal now?
Sheesh.

I didn't say you are a liberal. But your mindset in this is a liberal mindset.

Maybe Rick, but it is also the mindset of someone that has been there and done that and seen that it simply doesn't work.

[RickD]

I'm a liberal now?
Sheesh.

I didn't say you are a liberal. But your mindset in this is a liberal mindset.

Maybe Rick, but it is also the mindset of someone that has been there and done that and seen that it simply doesn't work.

Paul,

I'm saying that we shouldn't give in, and we should fight back. And you're saying that doesn't work. What do you suggest then? I'd love to hear it.

[PaulSacramento]

I'm a liberal now?
Sheesh.

I didn't say you are a liberal. But your mindset in this is a liberal mindset.

Maybe Rick, but it is also the mindset of someone that has been there and done that and seen that it simply doesn't work.

Paul,

I'm saying that we shouldn't give in, and we should fight back. And you're saying that doesn't work. What do you suggest then? I'd love to hear it.

Sure we fight back, we defend ourselves and those that need out protection.
What we do NOT do is give them more excuse to create more terrorists.
We understand that hate begets hate and killing begets killing and the only way to break the cycle is dialogue and to show the very people they recruit from that they are wrong ( we don't do that by bombing them for example).
We may have no choice to kill to defend BUT we have a clear choice in killing to take control of what is not ours, we have a clear choice to NOT destabilize regions we have economical interest in, we have a clear choice to NOT BE what the terrorists say we are to the people they recruit from.
In short, we have a clear choice NOT to give them reason to hate and fear us.

You make think this naive and that is fine BUT we do KNOW this:
What we are doing NOW and have been doing for the last few decades against terrorists is NOT working very well, is it?

Look, I have seen first hand what it means when we kill terrorists and when we kill innocents.
No one cares when a terrorist dies.
Just one dead innocent can drive at least 1 person to become a terrorist for, what he believes to be, a "just cause".
Yes, innocent casualties are inevitable BUT that is why we must do everything possible to avoid them and do everything possible to truly win their "hearts and minds".

We can also make sure that we do NOT become are worse enemies by supporting people that will come back to bite us in the ass and by not arming people under the pretense of " my enemies enemy is my friend" ( we do that far too much).