Are we still required to follow Mosaic law?

[PaulSacramento]

If Christians are required to follow that Law then it would have been EXPLICITLY stated in the NT ( It is NOT) ANY they would have had to follow ALL the Laws.
So, there are 612 Laws and while many are ceremonial, MOST are NOT.
To those Christians that believe we most follow the Laws of the OT I ask this:
Are you following all of them? if not then WHO decides which ones to follow?

Sorry Paul, but the 612 laws were not the ten that God wrote with His own finger, which Christ often referred to.
They are by- laws all under the principle of the ten. But the 600 odd by- laws would not have been written if some of the crowd were not so thick. As Jesus said, Moses gave you the divorce law because you couldn't work out your marriages, but in the beginning it was not so with Adam and Eve. So marriage and the Sabbath were already in the garden.
The law given on Mt Sinai was from a perfect world - heaven, and a copy of them lie in the ark to this day, both in the heavenly sanctuary and on earth in the ark Moses made.

Once we have established what Christ said about the ten, then we can move on safely to what Paul said without getting wrong ideas.

In regards to which ones we follow, all of the ten God wrote, but please tell me which commandment of the ten is repulsive and wrong? Which particular commandment is worthless?

SO you don't believe the other Laws to be given By God?

[neo-x]

Neo X ,

Can you see Christ as the embodiment of the law, the spiritual essence of God's character? Or do you just see a law that simply was a mistake?
God does not make mistakes does He?

I don't see Christ as embodiment of the law...He is God, law is not God, nor these two entities are interchangeable. Christ is not law in flesh, Christ is God, he is all there is. The law was an imperfect shadow for the real substance which is Christ. A taskmaster until the son arrived. Essence of God is not = the law given to Israel. These are far deeper theological issues concerning what is God, or His essence etc. so lets not dive into that.

The law wasn't a mistake it was just what was provided as a temp until God's appointed time for Christ to redeem mankind was to come. Its not how I see it, its how the scriptures tell it.

P.S The law was never perfect to begin with, it was never intended by God to be perfect either, or else it could have saved us. It's inability to save us is not a mistake, it is a consequence of its purpose.

[jlay]

I've already addressed this with SH.
He has already incorrectly accused myself and other of saying the law was wrong, or the law was a mistake. I spoke directly to this and now he does the exact same thing again. I can understand it once, but when you've been confronted on this once and then commit the same error, it becomes a dirty, underhanded debate tactic.

Regardless of whether you categorize the law into moral, ceremonial, etc., it doesn't change who the law was addressed to. On multiple occasions the scripture clearly states, "Here ye O' Israel."

[abelcainsbrother]

No we are not under the law but grace.However if you are saved the closer you are to Jesus the more of the law you will be automatically doing.Your focus should be on your relationship with Jesus not the law because Jesus already fulfilled it for you and you can't do it anyway and you insult Jesus trying to.You are forgetting what he did for you and thinking you can do it on your own.James to me is saying you are not saved really if you don't have works for your faith.

[Starhunter]

SO you don't believe the other Laws to be given By God?

God and Moses worked together on those by-laws, but the ceremonial laws God instructed Moses to write them.
The Civil laws were not written all at once, but as problems needed to be addressed, not unlike our system of law.

But all the by-laws on health and civility etc are extractions of the ten or based on the ten.

The ten laws are succinct as well as broad. For eg, "Thou Shalt not steal" covers more than just stolen property, it can be stolen time, reputation, room or space, energy, ideas etc.

[Starhunter]

Neo X ,
I don't see Christ as embodiment of the law...He is God, law is not God, nor these two entities are interchangeable. Christ is not law in flesh, Christ is God, he is all there is. The law was an imperfect shadow for the real substance which is Christ. A taskmaster until the son arrived. Essence of God is not = the law given to Israel. These are far deeper theological issues concerning what is God, or His essence etc. so lets not dive into that.

The law wasn't a mistake it was just what was provided as a temp until God's appointed time for Christ to redeem mankind was to come. Its not how I see it, its how the scriptures tell it.

P.S The law was never perfect to begin with, it was never intended by God to be perfect either, or else it could have saved us. It's inability to save us is not a mistake, it is a consequence of its purpose.

I differ in my view of the law, I think it's perfect, because it covers all bases from worship to God through to coveting. But I get where you are coming from, and appreciate your sharing.

[Starhunter]

I've already addressed this with SH.
He has already incorrectly accused myself and other of saying the law was wrong, or the law was a mistake. I spoke directly to this and now he does the exact same thing again. I can understand it once, but when you've been confronted on this once and then commit the same error, it becomes a dirty, underhanded debate tactic.

Regardless of whether you categorize the law into moral, ceremonial, etc., it doesn't change who the law was addressed to. On multiple occasions the scripture clearly states, "Here ye O' Israel."

There's been a misunderstanding somewhere, as I did not intend to do what you said I did.

[Starhunter]

No we are not under the law but grace.However if you are saved the closer you are to Jesus the more of the law you will be automatically doing.Your focus should be on your relationship with Jesus not the law because Jesus already fulfilled it for you and you can't do it anyway and you insult Jesus trying to.You are forgetting what he did for you and thinking you can do it on your own.James to me is saying you are not saved really if you don't have works for your faith.

True, anyone who accepted Christ, in OT or NT times was under grace, and not under the law.

The law is like the face of God, it can only kill the sinner, but with Christ in the heart, the demands of the law of God are met, and He will cause sinners to be able to see God without dying.

[PaulSacramento]

SO you don't believe the other Laws to be given By God?

God and Moses worked together on those by-laws, but the ceremonial laws God instructed Moses to write them.
The Civil laws were not written all at once, but as problems needed to be addressed, not unlike our system of law.

But all the by-laws on health and civility etc are extractions of the ten or based on the ten.

The ten laws are succinct as well as broad. For eg, "Thou Shalt not steal" covers more than just stolen property, it can be stolen time, reputation, room or space, energy, ideas etc.

You didn't answer my question.

Let me put it this way:

In your view, ONLY the 10 commandments are the ones that ALL must follow, Jew and Christian alike?

[PaulSacramento]

Neo X ,
I don't see Christ as embodiment of the law...He is God, law is not God, nor these two entities are interchangeable. Christ is not law in flesh, Christ is God, he is all there is. The law was an imperfect shadow for the real substance which is Christ. A taskmaster until the son arrived. Essence of God is not = the law given to Israel. These are far deeper theological issues concerning what is God, or His essence etc. so lets not dive into that.

The law wasn't a mistake it was just what was provided as a temp until God's appointed time for Christ to redeem mankind was to come. Its not how I see it, its how the scriptures tell it.

P.S The law was never perfect to begin with, it was never intended by God to be perfect either, or else it could have saved us. It's inability to save us is not a mistake, it is a consequence of its purpose.

I differ in my view of the law, I think it's perfect, because it covers all bases from worship to God through to coveting. But I get where you are coming from, and appreciate your sharing.

To state that the Law is perfect is to state that the Law is God since ONLY God is perfect.
IS that what you are doing? are you stating that the Law is EQUAL to God?, the SAME as God?

[RickD]

Starhunter wrote:
I differ in my view of the law, I think it's perfect, because it covers all bases from worship to God through to coveting. But I get where you are coming from, and appreciate your sharing.

If the law was perfect, there would've been no need for Christ. I know you don't realize it, but by saying the law is perfect, you are trampling on the cross of Christ.

[Byblos]

Starhunter wrote:
I differ in my view of the law, I think it's perfect, because it covers all bases from worship to God through to coveting. But I get where you are coming from, and appreciate your sharing.

If the law was perfect, there would've been no need for Christ. I know you don't realize it, but by saying the law is perfect, you are trampling on the cross of Christ.

I don't know about that Rick. Theoretically it is possible for one to be saved by the law (if kept perfectly) so the law must be perfect. It just so happens that in our fallen nature no one is perfect so no one can be saved by the law. It is not a trampling on the cross to call the law perfect, perhaps only that one can be saved by the law (the imperfection is in us, not the law).

[PaulSacramento]

Starhunter wrote:
I differ in my view of the law, I think it's perfect, because it covers all bases from worship to God through to coveting. But I get where you are coming from, and appreciate your sharing.

If the law was perfect, there would've been no need for Christ. I know you don't realize it, but by saying the law is perfect, you are trampling on the cross of Christ.

I don't know about that Rick. Theoretically it is possible for one to be saved by the law (if kept perfectly) so the law must be perfect. It just so happens that in our fallen nature no one is perfect so no one can be saved by the law. It is not a trampling on the cross to call the law perfect, perhaps only that one can be saved by the law (the imperfection is in us, not the law).

We need to distinguish the Law being perfect FOR it's intended purpose and the Laws BEING perfect.

[RickD]

Starhunter wrote:
I differ in my view of the law, I think it's perfect, because it covers all bases from worship to God through to coveting. But I get where you are coming from, and appreciate your sharing.

If the law was perfect, there would've been no need for Christ. I know you don't realize it, but by saying the law is perfect, you are trampling on the cross of Christ.

I don't know about that Rick. Theoretically it is possible for one to be saved by the law (if kept perfectly) so the law must be perfect. It just so happens that in our fallen nature no one is perfect so no one can be saved by the law. It is not a trampling on the cross to call the law perfect, perhaps only that one can be saved by the law (the imperfection is in us, not the law).

Galatians 2:16
"Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified".

Galatians 2:21
21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.

Galatians 3:11
"Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, ‘The righteous man shall life by faith'".

Acts 13:38-39
"Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through Him forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you, and through Him everyone who believes if freed from all things, from which you could not be freed through the Law of Moses".

[RickD]

Are we still required to follow Mosaic Law?

Is like asking, "Do you still beat your wife?"

WE were never required to follow mosaic law. Mosaic law was given to Israel, not to US.

WE never were required to follow Mosaic law. Including the 10 commandments which can't be separated from the rest of the Law.