How can we know if we know we have absolute truth?

[Danieltwotwenty]

Logic tells us that absolute truth can be known, but can we know if we have absolute truth?

I don't know about you but I am not 100% sure of anything, there just doesn't seem to be any certainty in life.

Even the Bible doesn't have certainty and I am starting to think that God has done it on purpose.

Philippians 2:12 says

Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed--not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence--continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling,

Which makes me think that if God wants us to work out our faith/salvation in fear and trembling then he made the Bible to be uncertain on purpose and not as black and white as we would like it, I mean why would we fear and tremble if it was all laid out to us in a comprehensive manual?

I hear a lot of people claim they have absolute truth on this forum and in the real world, but I am very dubious of their claims, how do they know if they actually have it?

I am not sure if we can know absolute truth in this current existence, not saying it cannot be known but more saying it cannot be known quite yet, maybe haha??? Or maybe we just cannot know if we have absolute truth, your thoughts are appreciated.

[neo-x]

we can only know what we are allowed to.

[PaulSacramento]

There are many ways to know God.
IMO:
Natural Theology
Bible
Divine revelation.

I think that only through DR can we truly KNOW God as He is BUT the other ways LEAD us to God in a way that we can understand at whatever given level we are.

I am humbled by the story of ST. Aquinas, that when he was blessed with DR he realized that all he had thought and written about God was insignificant compared to what he know KNEW about God, or more correctly, now that he KNEW God.

Considering what he wrote, that blew me away !

[Danieltwotwenty]

There are many ways to know God.
IMO:
Natural Theology
Bible
Divine revelation.

I think that only through DR can we truly KNOW God as He is BUT the other ways LEAD us to God in a way that we can understand at whatever given level we are.

I am humbled by the story of ST. Aquinas, that when he was blessed with DR he realized that all he had thought and written about God was insignificant compared to what he know KNEW about God, or more correctly, now that he KNEW God.

Considering what he wrote, that blew me away !

Thank you for the replies, this is pretty much exactly how I feel, my walk is personal as revealed to me, this is why I have a hard time I guess with others claiming absolute truth.

I don't think anyone can stand in judgement of another's walk or what they believe, all we can do is share what we believe and share the reason for our hope, but when compared to God, we know so very little.

So I guess we can all agree that absolute truth can be known, but whether we have it or not cannot be known at this time until it is revealed by God.

[Jac3510]

Do you know (absolutely or not, the qualifier doesn't matter) that you can't know whether or not what you know is true until it is revealed by God? Or has that been revealed to you? If so, do you know that it has been revealed by God, and if so, is that because it was revealed that it was revealed, ad infinitum?

I, for one, am less impressed by self-refuting claims than I am by claims that a person possesses absolute truth (whatever that even means).

[abelcainsbrother]

I don't think we will have all of the answers until we get to heaven,however I also believe God has an answer for us somewhere in his word and we don't always know enough of God's word to see it.Therefore all we can do is look into things and research and investigate what we have been taught is true with a desire to let God be true and every man a liar.We cannot always see the answer because of how we are,nonetheless God loved us and saved us and our relationship with him is most important of all for even when we are weak he is strong.Also we have an enemy out to deceive us and God has given us weapons to defeat him,but he can still deceive us if we allow it,he cannot pluck us out of the hand of God though.I think we all have strengths and weaknesses and we can learn from each other.

[Danieltwotwenty]

Do you know (absolutely or not, the qualifier doesn't matter) that you can't know whether or not what you know is true until it is revealed by God? Or has that been revealed to you? If so, do you know that it has been revealed by God, and if so, is that because it was revealed that it was revealed, ad infinitum?

I, for one, am less impressed by self-refuting claims than I am by claims that a person possesses absolute truth (whatever that even means).

I did realise that it was self refuting, but that still does not invalidate the question. How do you Jac, know that you posses absolute truth?

[Jac3510]

I wasn't replying to the question. I was replying to this:

So I guess we can all agree that absolute truth can be known, but whether we have it or not cannot be known at this time until it is revealed by God.

That's self-refuting.

As to the "how" question, first, you have to start with the assumption that it can be known at that it is, in fact, known. You cannot approach the question from the perspective that the absence of any coherent answer suggests that knowledge of absolute truth is impossible. Once you have the proper perspective (which means you rightly dismiss any self-refuting claims that you can't know), you go about the work of building an appropriate epistemology.

There is no short answer to your question. The reason is that "knowledge" is not a science with a universal method. It is the result of the particular object or problem to which it is addressed. Some objects or problems admit absolute certainty. Others do not. So I am absolutely certain that all triangles have three sides (a geometrical problem), that 1+1=2 (a mathematical problem), that God exists (a philosophical problem), that absolute truth can be known (another philosophical problem), that if A is larger than B and B is larger than C that A is larger than C (a logical problem), etc. I am not absolutely certain that the sun rises in the east (a scientific problem), but I absolutely certain that I am absolutely warranted in holding to that belief--that is, that the belief is justified--and further than any and all claims to the contrary are absolutely unwarranted. Likewise, I am not absolutely certain that George Washington was the first POTUS or that Jesus rose from the dead (both historical problems), but, again, I am absolutely certain that both claims are strongly warranted and that contrary claims are unwarranted. We can press further and note that I am absolutely certain of the validity of my sense-judgements, although I may question the inferences I draw from any of them, as it is all too common to have an unwarranted distributed middle in any given case.

What all this means is that you've asked the wrong question. You can't ask "how can we know if we have absolute truth" anymore than you can ask, "what does it weigh?" If I asked the latter, you say, "Uhm, how much does what weigh?" Just so, we must know what we are talking about to know whether or not we have absolute truth about it.

[Danieltwotwenty]

I wasn't replying to the question. I was replying to this:

So I guess we can all agree that absolute truth can be known, but whether we have it or not cannot be known at this time until it is revealed by God.

That's self-refuting.

As to the "how" question, first, you have to start with the assumption that it can be known at that it is, in fact, known. You cannot approach the question from the perspective that the absence of any coherent answer suggests that knowledge of absolute truth is impossible. Once you have the proper perspective (which means you rightly dismiss any self-refuting claims that you can't know), you go about the work of building an appropriate epistemology.

There is no short answer to your question. The reason is that "knowledge" is not a science with a universal method. It is the result of the particular object or problem to which it is addressed. Some objects or problems admit absolute certainty. Others do not. So I am absolutely certain that all triangles have three sides (a geometrical problem), that 1+1=2 (a mathematical problem), that God exists (a philosophical problem), that absolute truth can be known (another philosophical problem), that if A is larger than B and B is larger than C that A is larger than C (a logical problem), etc. I am not absolutely certain that the sun rises in the east (a scientific problem), but I absolutely certain that I am absolutely warranted in holding to that belief--that is, that the belief is justified--and further than any and all claims to the contrary are absolutely unwarranted. Likewise, I am not absolutely certain that George Washington was the first POTUS or that Jesus rose from the dead (both historical problems), but, again, I am absolutely certain that both claims are strongly warranted and that contrary claims are unwarranted. We can press further and note that I am absolutely certain of the validity of my sense-judgements, although I may question the inferences I draw from any of them, as it is all too common to have an unwarranted distributed middle in any given case.

What all this means is that you've asked the wrong question. You can't ask "how can we know if we have absolute truth" anymore than you can ask, "what does it weigh?" If I asked the latter, you say, "Uhm, how much does what weigh?" Just so, we must know what we are talking about to know whether or not we have absolute truth about it.

Thanks Jac, that all makes sense.

Maybe I am just not convinced of some people's claims to absolute truth.

[Philip]

The other thing this issue reminds me of is that human beings are masters at self deception. Then, you add in spiritual blindness and an Adversary who is constantly trying to deceive...

[Danieltwotwenty]

The other thing this issue reminds me of is that human beings are masters at self deception. Then, you add in spiritual blindness and an Adversary who is constantly trying to deceive...

Makes it all very confusing and even more reason to doubt other people's claims.

[Jac3510]

We should doubt everyone's claims, including our own. But that doubting should not become an excuse to avoid affirming truth. That is lazy and dishonest. Doubting here simply means that we should examine what we believe (and what others assert) to make sure it is true before we give it assent. And that is something the Bible demands and praises (Isa 1:18; Acts 17:11; 1 Pet 3:15, etc.).

[Kenny]

Logic tells us that absolute truth can be known, but can we know if we have absolute truth?

I don't know about you but I am not 100% sure of anything, there just doesn't seem to be any certainty in life.

It seems to me,if there is such a thing as an absolute truth, it is something that must be taken on blind faith. I say “blind” faith because, how could you know you are being told the absolute truth unless you know the absolute truth, and can verify its accuracy? What system could you possibly employ, to verify what you are being told is the absolute truth?

Ken

[Danieltwotwenty]

We should doubt everyone's claims, including our own. But that doubting should not become an excuse to avoid affirming truth. That is lazy and dishonest. Doubting here simply means that we should examine what we believe (and what others assert) to make sure it is true before we give it assent. And that is something the Bible demands and praises (Isa 1:18; Acts 17:11; 1 Pet 3:15, etc.).

Jac if you could indulge me further I would like to ask another question, If truth is a reality and what we believe this truth is is based on facts, logic and reason, do you think it is possible that we currently don't have all the facts, logic and reason in our current state of existence concerning any given situation, are we able to make a claim of absolute truth from that? Forgive me if this is a stupid question.

[Danieltwotwenty]

Logic tells us that absolute truth can be known, but can we know if we have absolute truth?

I don't know about you but I am not 100% sure of anything, there just doesn't seem to be any certainty in life.

It seems to me,if there is such a thing as an absolute truth, it is something that must be taken on blind faith. I say “blind” faith because, how could you know you are being told the absolute truth unless you know the absolute truth, and can verify its accuracy? What system could you possibly employ, to verify what you are being told is the absolute truth?

Ken

Logic, reason and facts.