Genesis and the NT and God's grace

[PaulSacramento]

This came about in a discussion I had yesterday and I though I would share it here:

OT:
Genesis is the first account we have of God's given grace.
Regardless of HOW you see Adam and Eve, what we have in the Garden of Eden, is an offer by God to mankind:
Eternal life given as a gift, not earned, because of Man's faith in God.
An offer that is revoked/lost when faith is lost.
Adam and Eve had eternal life as long as they had faith in God, when they decide that they wanted to "be like God", they showed lack of faith in God.
They wanted to "do for themselves" to KNOW for themselves.
They lost eternal Life in the Garden of Eden, for they were not allowed to eat of the "tree of life".

NT:
Eternal life is a reward, a gift, given Via Christ for those that have faith in Christ.
It is given freely as a gift of grace ( unmerited favour) and not based on anything that we do.
Eternal life is based on Us having Faith in Christ, In God, In what He does for Us and NOT what we do for ourselves.
As Christ said in John, "only those that eat of my flesh and drink of my blood, will have eternal life".
Perhaps alluding that HE is/was the "tree of life" in the Garden of Eden.

The difference?
In Eden Adam and Eve represented all humanity and God extended His grace to ALL via them.
In Christ ALL humanity deals directly with God and are responsible for their OWN faith in HIM.

Some, and I don't want to get into an argument of "once saved, always saved", would also point out that in Eden, eternal life was lost when Faith was lost and that is NOT the case now with Grace in Christ ( or it is still according to some, but that, again, is not a discussion for this thread).

Thoughts?

[Byblos]

This came about in a discussion I had yesterday and I though I would share it here:

OT:
Genesis is the first account we have of God's given grace.
Regardless of HOW you see Adam and Eve, what we have in the Garden of Eden, is an offer by God to mankind:
Eternal life given as a gift, not earned, because of Man's faith in God.
An offer that is revoked/lost when faith is lost.
Adam and Eve had eternal life as long as they had faith in God, when they decide that they wanted to "be like God", they showed lack of faith in God.
They wanted to "do for themselves" to KNOW for themselves.
They lost eternal Life in the Garden of Eden, for they were not allowed to eat of the "tree of life".

NT:
Eternal life is a reward, a gift, given Via Christ for those that have faith in Christ.
It is given freely as a gift of grace ( unmerited favour) and not based on anything that we do.
Eternal life is based on Us having Faith in Christ, In God, In what He does for Us and NOT what we do for ourselves.
As Christ said in John, "only those that eat of my flesh and drink of my blood, will have eternal life".
Perhaps alluding that HE is/was the "tree of life" in the Garden of Eden.

The difference?
In Eden Adam and Eve represented all humanity and God extended His grace to ALL via them.
In Christ ALL humanity deals directly with God and are responsible for their OWN faith in HIM.

Some, and I don't want to get into an argument of "once saved, always saved", would also point out that in Eden, eternal life was lost when Faith was lost and that is NOT the case now with Grace in Christ ( or it is still according to some, but that, again, is not a discussion for this thread).

Thoughts?

You have a more serious problem than OSAS, i.e. pelagianism (see the emphasized).

[PaulSacramento]

AH, yes, good catch, should I reword that to reflect that faith comes from God?
The tricky part is, of course, if faith comes form God, does that mean those who do not have faith in Christ, don't have it because God has not given it to them?

By the way:
Pelagianism is the belief that original sin did not taint human nature and that mortal will is still capable of choosing good or evil without special Divine aid.

And that is not what I am saying when I say that each individual human is responsible for their faith in Christ ( or lack there of).
And, bTW, while I believe that original sin is what makes us all mortal ( death being the price of sin), I don't believe that we carry the guilt of Adam in us, only the Sin which leads to being mortal.

[RickD]

And Paul,

You have an even bigger problem if you believe eternal life is a reward.

...Eternal life is a reward, a gift, given Via Christ for those that have faith in Christ...

Reward:a thing given in recognition of one's service, effort, or achievement.

[PaulSacramento]

And Paul,

You have an even bigger problem if you believe eternal life is a reward.

...Eternal life is a reward, a gift, given Via Christ for those that have faith in Christ...

Reward:a thing given in recognition of one's service, effort, or achievement.

Ah yes, well said. My bad.
A gift is much better then or the "unmerited favour".
This is where are personalities come into play when we word things.
I tend to view it as a reward in the sense of a gift given because we believe, that our faith is rewarded, BUT I can see your point on how that can lead to the view that it is a reward for something we do ( even if it is believing).

[abelcainsbrother]

This came about in a discussion I had yesterday and I though I would share it here:

OT:
Genesis is the first account we have of God's given grace.
Regardless of HOW you see Adam and Eve, what we have in the Garden of Eden, is an offer by God to mankind:
Eternal life given as a gift, not earned, because of Man's faith in God.
An offer that is revoked/lost when faith is lost.
Adam and Eve had eternal life as long as they had faith in God, when they decide that they wanted to "be like God", they showed lack of faith in God.
They wanted to "do for themselves" to KNOW for themselves.
They lost eternal Life in the Garden of Eden, for they were not allowed to eat of the "tree of life".

NT:
Eternal life is a reward, a gift, given Via Christ for those that have faith in Christ.
It is given freely as a gift of grace ( unmerited favour) and not based on anything that we do.
Eternal life is based on Us having Faith in Christ, In God, In what He does for Us and NOT what we do for ourselves.
As Christ said in John, "only those that eat of my flesh and drink of my blood, will have eternal life".
Perhaps alluding that HE is/was the "tree of life" in the Garden of Eden.

The difference?
In Eden Adam and Eve represented all humanity and God extended His grace to ALL via them.
In Christ ALL humanity deals directly with God and are responsible for their OWN faith in HIM.

Some, and I don't want to get into an argument of "once saved, always saved", would also point out that in Eden, eternal life was lost when Faith was lost and that is NOT the case now with Grace in Christ ( or it is still according to some, but that, again, is not a discussion for this thread).

Thoughts?

AMEN! Brother I agree and I don't think I need to add anything to it

[PaulSacramento]

Changes:

OT:
Genesis is the first account we have of God's given grace.
Regardless of HOW you see Adam and Eve, what we have in the Garden of Eden, is an offer by God to mankind:
Eternal life given as a gift, not earned, because of Man's faith in God.
An offer that is revoked/lost when faith is lost.
Adam and Eve had eternal life as long as they had faith in God, when they decide that they wanted to "be like God", they showed lack of faith in God.
They wanted to "do for themselves" to KNOW for themselves.
They lost eternal Life in the Garden of Eden, for they were not allowed to eat of the "tree of life".

NT:
Eternal life is a gift, given Via Christ for those that have faith in Christ.
It is given freely as a gift of grace ( unmerited favour) and not based on anything that we do.
Eternal life is based on Us having Faith in Christ, In God, In what He does for Us and NOT what we do for ourselves.
Christ said in John, "only those that eat of my flesh and drink of my blood, will have eternal life", perhaps alluding that HE is/was the "tree of life" in the Garden of Eden.


The difference?
In Eden Adam and Eve represented all humanity and God extended His grace to ALL via them.
In Christ ALL humanity deals directly with God and are responsible for their OWN faith in HIM.

The similarities?
Eternal life is given freely by God and all we have to "do" ( note the quotations) is believe in Him and have faith in Him.

Some, and I don't want to get into an argument of "once saved, always saved", would also point out that in Eden, eternal life was lost when Faith was lost and that is NOT the case now with Grace in Christ ( or it is still according to some, but that, again, is not a discussion for this thread).

My point is that the OT and NT have the same gospel, that of eternal life being given as a gift from God to all those that believe.

Thoughts?