Doctrine of Hell

[Kurieuo]

The sad reality is "hell" is logically sound and even necessary if a good and righteous God exists even if also loving.

1) If a good and righteous God exists, then a "location" outside of God's kingdom must exist where those who oppose God are placed and restrained.
2) God is good and righteous.
3) Therefore those who oppose God will be placed and restrained in a "place" outside of God's kingdom.

Mix in with another argument -- that God is the source of all good.

1) If God is the source of all good, then anywhere where God does not reside must be horrible.
2) God is the source of all good.
3) Therefore those outside of God's kingdom will experience something horrible.

The issue comes down to whether God respects our life eternally so, or whether God takes back.
I once did support Annihilationism, but then after reading further got pulled firmly back the other way.

[abelcainsbrother]

If people willingly reject free salvation that Jesus offers then IMO they deserve to go to hell.

Fly away from hell
https://m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=B76oCk96q6o

[Kurieuo]

If people willingly reject free salvation that Jesus offers then IMO they deserve to go to hell.

Fly away from hell
https://m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=B76oCk96q6o

Really, we all deserve it. So it's nothing to really gloat about.

[ItBeMacKenzie]

The sad reality is "hell" is logically sound and even necessary if a good and righteous God exists even if also loving.

1) If a good and righteous God exists, then a "location" outside of God's kingdom must exist where those who oppose God are placed and restrained.
2) God is good and righteous.
3) Therefore those who oppose God will be placed and restrained in a "place" outside of God's kingdom.

Mix in with another argument -- that God is the source of all good.

1) If God is the source of all good, then anywhere where God does not reside must be horrible.
2) God is the source of all good.
3) Therefore those outside of God's kingdom will experience something horrible.

The issue comes down to whether God respects our life eternally so, or whether God takes back.
I once did support Annihilationism, but then after reading further got pulled firmly back the other way.

I agree with the points that you made: that those who willingly and knowingly oppose God deserve separation from Him, but what happens to those who, due to their circumstances/upbringing/environment, are unable to really know who God is? Is it really fair for those who do not know God in all of His entirety to go to Hell?

[Kurieuo]

The sad reality is "hell" is logically sound and even necessary if a good and righteous God exists even if also loving.

1) If a good and righteous God exists, then a "location" outside of God's kingdom must exist where those who oppose God are placed and restrained.
2) God is good and righteous.
3) Therefore those who oppose God will be placed and restrained in a "place" outside of God's kingdom.

Mix in with another argument -- that God is the source of all good.

1) If God is the source of all good, then anywhere where God does not reside must be horrible.
2) God is the source of all good.
3) Therefore those outside of God's kingdom will experience something horrible.

The issue comes down to whether God respects our life eternally so, or whether God takes back.
I once did support Annihilationism, but then after reading further got pulled firmly back the other way.

I agree with the points that you made: that those who willingly and knowingly oppose God deserve separation from Him, but what happens to those who, due to their circumstances/upbringing/environment, are unable to really know who God is? Is it really fair for those who do not know God in all of His entirety to go to Hell?

Paul writes in Romans 1:18+ that God hands us over to our ignorance, to deny what is obvious. It is sin that blinds us to a knowledge of God.

If you don't mind (?) I'd like to take you through two relevant passages that I feel illustrate a point before asking you two questions.

Romans 2:12-16 has the following insight:

• 12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law; 13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

Romans 3 also has:

• 10 As it is written,
  • “There is none righteous, not even one;
    11 There is none who understands,
    There is none who seeks for God;
    12 All have turned aside, together they have become useless;
    There is none who does good,
    There is not even one.”
    13 “Their throat is an open grave,
    With their tongues they keep deceiving,”
    “The poison of asps is under their lips”;
    14 “Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness”;
    15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood,
    16 Destruction and misery are in their paths,
    17 And the path of peace they have not known.”
    18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
  19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are [h]under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God;

These words of us in light of an all-righteous and just God paint to rather dire situation.

My first question to you is: Based upon these words, WHO would pass God's judgement and not be rejected?

And my second question: I've not been entirely good and even today continue to do wrong here and there. So my rejection would be deserved. What about you?

[abelcainsbrother]

If people willingly reject free salvation that Jesus offers then IMO they deserve to go to hell.

Fly away from hell
https://m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=B76oCk96q6o

Really, we all deserve it. So it's nothing to really gloat about.

Yes it is good to gloat about it even if we do deserve hell it is good to know that no matter when or how we may die that we will be in heaven and we need to be excited about it,it might be contagious to somebody who has not been saved by Jesus yet.One thing we are all gonna do one day is die and where we spend eternity is more important than our short life span here in this world.

[ItBeMacKenzie]

The sad reality is "hell" is logically sound and even necessary if a good and righteous God exists even if also loving.

1) If a good and righteous God exists, then a "location" outside of God's kingdom must exist where those who oppose God are placed and restrained.
2) God is good and righteous.
3) Therefore those who oppose God will be placed and restrained in a "place" outside of God's kingdom.

Mix in with another argument -- that God is the source of all good.

1) If God is the source of all good, then anywhere where God does not reside must be horrible.
2) God is the source of all good.
3) Therefore those outside of God's kingdom will experience something horrible.

The issue comes down to whether God respects our life eternally so, or whether God takes back.
I once did support Annihilationism, but then after reading further got pulled firmly back the other way.

I agree with the points that you made: that those who willingly and knowingly oppose God deserve separation from Him, but what happens to those who, due to their circumstances/upbringing/environment, are unable to really know who God is? Is it really fair for those who do not know God in all of His entirety to go to Hell?

Paul writes in Romans 1:18+ that God hands us over to our ignorance, to deny what is obvious. It is sin that blinds us to a knowledge of God.

If you don't mind (?) I'd like to take you through two relevant passages that I feel illustrate a point before asking you two questions.

Romans 2:12-16 has the following insight:

• 12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law; 13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

Romans 3 also has:

• 10 As it is written,
  • “There is none righteous, not even one;
    11 There is none who understands,
    There is none who seeks for God;
    12 All have turned aside, together they have become useless;
    There is none who does good,
    There is not even one.”
    13 “Their throat is an open grave,
    With their tongues they keep deceiving,”
    “The poison of asps is under their lips”;
    14 “Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness”;
    15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood,
    16 Destruction and misery are in their paths,
    17 And the path of peace they have not known.”
    18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
  19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are [h]under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God;

These words of us in light of an all-righteous and just God paint to rather dire situation.

My first question to you is: Based upon these words, WHO would pass God's judgement and not be rejected?

And my second question: I've not been entirely good and even today continue to do wrong here and there. So my rejection would be deserved. What about you?

You cite Romans 1:18+, which basically states that everyone has an inherent knowledge of God's "eternal power and divine nature", and that those that deny these truths are without excuse. There are indeed many who deny God's existence and who are without excuse. However, aren't there are also many who belong to other religions who do acknowledge God, who do recognize His eternality and His divinity, and who do praise Him? I've always been kind of confused by this passage. Like, not everyone who's not a Christian denies God's eternal and divine attributes or denies Him of praise?

As for the questions you asked, according to the verses you cited, no one would pass God's judgement and my rejection would be deserved.

[Jac3510]

May I suggest that far from saying that all people have an innate knowledge of God, Rom 1:18ff actually says that they do not have such knowledge but rather that knowledge of God's attributes is universally available? Look at the passage in more detail:

• The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

Notice what I've emphasized here. The attributes of God are "plain"--not "known." That is, they are obvious. They are there to be seen. And Paul says explicintly that they have been seen. By whom? By a great many people, of course. But if anyone has seen them, that means that anyone could see them, so long as those attributes were discovered from nature itself, which has been the case. So, yes, all are without excuse. But further, notice that some people did, in fact, see. This does not say that some admitted what they already knew. To see something is to become aware of something outside of yourself. But that is not innate! And, Paul says that again. He says that these attributes are understood from what has been made. In other words, it is by looking at creation--what has been made--that the attributes of God can be seen. Yet if the attributes of God are seen by looking at creation, then such knowledge is not innate.

All this is confirmed if you continue reading the passage. Paul talks specifically about idolaters as he continues his argument. Those people knew something about God's nature, but they attributed those powers to created things and worshipped creation. In other words, the moment you admit that there is a Creator, you lose all excuse for worshipping His creation. But that is exactly what idolaters do.

So as I pointed out to Audie before, this passage isn't written against atheists. It's written against idolaters. That's not to say that atheists are off the hook, biblically speaking. The Bible calls them fools. But that's another matter entirely, and if we want to understand passages like Rom 1:18ff and how they might apply to things like atheism or little kids or the mentally incompetant or others who might claim to have an excuse, we need to FIRST see what the passage is saying in itself.

tl;dr - Rom 1:18ff does not make the knowledge of God innate. Just the opposite. It says that the knowledge of God is not innate but can be clearly seen in nature, but continuing on, the very problem is that people don't look for God--they would rather worship creation than the Creator.

[Elias]

Hi, may I give another view on the doctrine of hell?

Hell is generally defined as a place where those who died in enmity with God suffer eternal torment, whereas the souls of the righteous go to heaven upon death. The Hebrew she'ol and the Greek Hades can both be translated as "hell," and refer to the world of the dead.

The Greek term geena is used 12 times in the New Testament, and denotes "fiery punishment." It is derived from the Hebrew Ge Hinnom, or "the Valley of Hinnom," where heathen rites of sacrificing and burning children to Molech were practiced. Jeremiah called it "the valley of slaughter." The Valley of Hinnom became a place for burning rubbish and, with the development of a doctrine of a fiery hell where the wicked were punished, the valley served as a type of the fires of the last days.

The Biblical terminology is often used in a metaphoric sense and confusion can arise as to whether the terms are referring to a place or state in which the dead find themselves.

In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus refers to geena three times. He warned the Pharisees of the damnation of geena. The nature and effect of the fire is described in the Bible as "unquenchable fire" (Mark 9:43-48; Luke 3:9) or "everlasting fire" (Matthew 25:41). This fire will cleanse the earth (2 Peter 3:10-12; Luke 3:17) after the second resurrection (Revelation 20:5).

The word aiónios, which means "everlasting," is used to describe the fate of the righteous as well as the wicked. The punishment of the wicked is everlasting death. The fire itself is not everlasting, but the final consequence of the fire—death—is everlasting.

This principle is clearly demonstrated in the Scriptures. In Malachi 4:1-3, speaking of that last day when the earth and all the wicked are burned up, God tells the prophet, "behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch... they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this."

Ashes and stubble indicate that the fire is out. The wicked do not burn eternally, but their destruction is final. Their pain and suffering is over, as is their life of sin and rebellion. God has mercy even on the wicked in that He does not allow them to suffer eternally.

Similarly, Jude 7 says, "Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire" (emphasis added). The fires are no longer burning, but the consequences of the fires are everlasting.

In the Bible, the word for "destruction" means total and irreversible obliteration. For example, God sent the Flood to destroy—make non-existent—all life on Earth (Genesis 6 and 7). Later in history, God often required the Israelites to destroy their war plunder as an offering to Him. This was done through killing the livestock, and burning the plunder until only ash remained. (Numbers 21:2-3; Joshua 6:21).

This definition of a state irreversible destruction is what we see throughout Scripture in relation to the punishment for those who choose to reject God:

He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed (Exodus 22:20).

And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and they that forsake the LORD shall be consumed (Isaiah 1:18).

In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power (2 Thessalonians 1:8-9).

Like the pain of dying—which eventually culminates in death—the punishment for those who reject God lasts for only a while. Eventually, the destruction is complete and they simply cease to exist.

[melanie]

Hi, may I give another view on the doctrine of hell?

Hell is generally defined as a place where those who died in enmity with God suffer eternal torment, whereas the souls of the righteous go to heaven upon death. The Hebrew she'ol and the Greek Hades can both be translated as "hell," and refer to the world of the dead.

The Greek term geena is used 12 times in the New Testament, and denotes "fiery punishment." It is derived from the Hebrew Ge Hinnom, or "the Valley of Hinnom," where heathen rites of sacrificing and burning children to Molech were practiced. Jeremiah called it "the valley of slaughter." The Valley of Hinnom became a place for burning rubbish and, with the development of a doctrine of a fiery hell where the wicked were punished, the valley served as a type of the fires of the last days.

The Biblical terminology is often used in a metaphoric sense and confusion can arise as to whether the terms are referring to a place or state in which the dead find themselves.

In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus refers to geena three times. He warned the Pharisees of the damnation of geena. The nature and effect of the fire is described in the Bible as "unquenchable fire" (Mark 9:43-48; Luke 3:9) or "everlasting fire" (Matthew 25:41). This fire will cleanse the earth (2 Peter 3:10-12; Luke 3:17) after the second resurrection (Revelation 20:5).

The word aiónios, which means "everlasting," is used to describe the fate of the righteous as well as the wicked. The punishment of the wicked is everlasting death. The fire itself is not everlasting, but the final consequence of the fire—death—is everlasting.

This principle is clearly demonstrated in the Scriptures. In Malachi 4:1-3, speaking of that last day when the earth and all the wicked are burned up, God tells the prophet, "behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch... they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this."

Ashes and stubble indicate that the fire is out. The wicked do not burn eternally, but their destruction is final. Their pain and suffering is over, as is their life of sin and rebellion. God has mercy even on the wicked in that He does not allow them to suffer eternally.

Similarly, Jude 7 says, "Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire" (emphasis added). The fires are no longer burning, but the consequences of the fires are everlasting.

In the Bible, the word for "destruction" means total and irreversible obliteration. For example, God sent the Flood to destroy—make non-existent—all life on Earth (Genesis 6 and 7). Later in history, God often required the Israelites to destroy their war plunder as an offering to Him. This was done through killing the livestock, and burning the plunder until only ash remained. (Numbers 21:2-3; Joshua 6:21).

This definition of a state irreversible destruction is what we see throughout Scripture in relation to the punishment for those who choose to reject God:

He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed (Exodus 22:20).

And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and they that forsake the LORD shall be consumed (Isaiah 1:18).

In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power (2 Thessalonians 1:8-9).

Like the pain of dying—which eventually culminates in death—the punishment for those who reject God lasts for only a while. Eventually, the destruction is complete and they simply cease to exist.

Welcome Elias and thanks for your input.
Personally I am unsure. I have read a fair bit on the subject and remain undecided.
Whether Hell is everlasting or an eternal destruction, I want to avoid it!! That I know for certain.
Speaking less selfishly, I would like almost all to avoid such a fate, but that is left to our choices and in God's perfect justice.

[B. W.]

Here is some deep things to consider on this subject more on a christian philosophic level, so be forewarned...

Very difficult concept to grasp is that God does not take away life (2 Sam 14:14). He is a God of the living and not the God of the dead (Mark 12:27, Luke 20:38). God remains true to all he is and cannot deny who himself, his attributes, nature (2 Tim 2:13). These three themes are found throughout the bible.

Our concept of mortality, psychical death, is limited and thus we apply the human experience in defining mortal death as sleep, the big 'The End", peace, nothingness, non-existence, etc. Actually mortal death is not the big 'The End' but rather an awakening into an eternal state of conscious being and it is in this is what it means by God not taking away life. Yes, the mortal state dies but for God to be true to his nature as God of the living who reneges on no gift such as life, there is a continuing of life after mortal death.

What often causes confusion is that God has a right to end mortal life so as to bring folks to an eternal form of his justice. So when, due to human sin and acts that murder and cause damage to DNA to future generations (cancers), God gets wrongly blamed for being unjust. However, in cases like ISIS / ISIL destroying such evil by human or divine means is viewed as just because such are sent to receive eternal justice they deserve. Another cause of confusion is that folks assume that when one is in their respective spiritual eternal state they somehow get it (after encountering God) and never will sin again in their spiritual state due to various reasons such as mercy, love of God, for example, would change them.

What is not realized is this: in ones spiritual state one is sealed in like state at point of mortal death and that it is forever. If one dies hating God, denying God, making gods for themselves, manipulating, all shades of dysfunction from the most benign to the extreme forms of malice, that remains part of that person, sealed in that state forever.

Why is this? Because they would view God being true to himself as the means to take advantage of, exploit, and game in a greater degree than proven on earth. They would continue to seek to manipulate God's love, goodness, and nature of not zapping life into non-existence in such manner that seeks to make God subservient to their whims. What's to stop them - after all God will not take away life.

Many arguments against eternal recompense serve as examples of this, however, without folks realizing they are doing so. As for Christians who do this, God is faithful to overlook this and will straighten it out in due time so such can handle it later on when they come into a state of full understanding because God is faithful. Non-Christian who do this, not.

Is Repentance possible after death?

You could rightly say, human free moral agency is sealed solid after death with no chance of repentance. In this, God is again proven just in a manner that far outshines our mortal manipulative way of thinking in this manner: he is granting them what they love the most, darkness more than his light, and will send them to what their darkness loves the most reaping what they have sown (John 3:19-21, 36). He came and paid a terrible price in blood to set these people free but they lived life sticking their finger in God's eye proven by how they really are to each other, self, and God. They denied the only opportunity to be sealed forever in right standing with God and changed by God's hand to freely stop being unjust to God, self, others in this mortal now.

In and by God's wisdom, he made humanity mortal beings who can die, yet, live on after in their true eternal state either with God or without. Without such an arrangement and honoring His gift life and his calling of free moral agency needed to excise dominion appropriately, God would be truly unjust to himself and thus stop being God. He would be proven in contradiction with his own nature. Trust me, you do not want this. If God ceases to be God, which is impossible by the way, all life will cease. Praise God he is all powerfully able to handle all things rightly and justly and thus there is no possibility he will ever go against is own nature. Think about it...

Yes, the mortal state dies but for God to be true to his nature as God of the living who reneges on no gift such as life, there is a continuing of life after mortal death. Be thankful for this - he does not take away life in a manner of non-existence as that is contrary to his own life giving nature. We human beings can and do things contrary to our nature we were originally fashioned. But God cannot and will not go against his own, amen. So we should stop trying to force God to go against his nature and personal attributes to exalt our own dysfunctions as the new rule of law governing the universe.

One other thing to consider: those in the military who have seen combat, law enforcement, social workers, emergency workers, doctors, nurses, crime victims, those who suffered brutal abuse in all forms have seen what resides in the human condition and understand what human beings are capable of doing to each other. Often they bear the scars of this in silence and often it is difficult to look at people around about in times of peace the same ever again. That is a testament against evil and how dysfunction strays into, evil. Those in the confines of eternal recompense have this exposed within themselves as well, and this shows them, justly, the real reason they are banished forever from God as they would corrupt all they touch as their real nature has been sealed justly, all proven in mortal life as revealed truth.

One Last Word

It is so important to spread the gospel of the good news of Jesus. Jesus came and broke the chains of darkness's dysfunction in our lives so we no longer have to be slaves to it. He came and paid for sins with his own life so we can actually see what we do to each other, ourselves, and God so we can voluntarily return to him and have him change our mortal lives for the better. We got it right about the payment of our sin debt by Jesus on the cross, but not so much that he came to break our chains of dysfunction by the cross too. Oh, if you all only grasp what human beings are capable of doing to another human being you would desire for it to stop. As we spread the gospel and make followers of Jesus, we help to stop and contain this darkness. That is our call.

We like to think human beings are all basically good but what does basically really imply? True, human beings can do some good but not all the time as our thoughts and actions so often slip into areas of malice, bitterness, self sabotage and destruction - families a mess, society a mess, and we have the gall to delude ourselves that what good we actually do earns respect from God when God sees deep into the heart of man and woman and knows the dysfunction we spread and teach and do to each other?

The Good news of Jesus Christ breaks these chains, changes our lives so we can do good that counts and really matters without delusion. Those that hear the truth, accept it, come to Jesus for a change of life. Once changed, we are sealed as his own so that by the time we depart this life, entering in the one that really counts, we will never rebel ever again for we learned a most powerful and necessary objective lesson called 'mortal life.'

God day and God Bless

B W Melvin
Author: A Land Unknown: Hell's Dominion

[Starhunter]

The Gospel is life, so that none need to perish.
To perish means to die or be dead.
Everlasting life v's everlasting death - the wicked will never be resurrected again.
The scriptures say that "the wicked shall be ashes under" the feet of the saints.

To say that we continue to live after death, takes away the purpose of a resurrection, and it also means that the wicked and sin will never be destroyed.

We know there is no repentance for salvation after death, we need to decide here and now. Why? because we don't live after death unless we are resurrected.

The whole point of God giving us life here and now, is so that we can recognize His salvation and be saved, God has never allowed life just to give us a puzzling and vain and often painful experience. If that is so, why would He add another life after this one which is infinitely cruel?

God loved the entire human race and gave His Son for them, and once the time for repentance is over, there is a judgement and the wicked receive "the wages of sin" which "is death." The wages of sin are not eternal torture, even though it will seem like that to some who perish.

The idea of everlasting life in an everlasting flame or any other condition of torture is pointless, it does not bring repentance or anything that God would like from sinners.
There is absolutely no gain for God is keeping people in this magical place separate from all, in eternal suffering. And if it is separate, who knows about it? God would. It would be infinite suffering to Himself to know that was taking place. The act of God punishing the wicked and destroying them is one of agony as only an infinite God can experience. So why would He continue that act for ever. No the Bible teaches it will be over in a relatively short time, the flames will not go out, if they did someone could survive, but the flames are eternal, and when all is consumed nothing is left and the flame goes out.

Go to the burns recovery ward in the hospital and ask one of the staff there, if any of the patients would like a visitor. Then ask them how they are, if they are conscious, and what they have experienced. Then talk to them about the 'gospel' and introduce them to not just one hour of burning but days and weeks and years and decades, centuries, millenniums, million years, billion years, trillion years, zillion years, times infinity, times infinity, times infinity, times infinity, times infinity.

What do you think the staff will do, if the poor patient doesn't strangle you right there and then? Then ask yourself what God will do for misrepresenting Him?
Jesus said that "if ye being evil know how to give good gifts to your children" Does not your Father in heaven know how to provide for you?
If sinners are outraged at the disgusting, vile and satanic doctrine of hell, what will God do to those who teach it and pervert His Holy word? Whosoever causes one human being to stumble, it is better that they are cast into the depths of the ocean with a millstone around their neck, than face what will happen to them in judgement.

Now lets say we adopt the new version of hell, which is not a sea of burning flames but a dirty dysfunctional carnival, well I don't see how that is any different than many parts of the world today, so in essence sinners and sin will never come to an end - not sustained by man, but invented and sustained by 'god himself.' Is that taught in the Bible?

If hell was a place like this world or worse, then living in it forever (is a very long time) it would be torture and agony for its inhabitants. Sin and sinners would be immortalized.

[jpbg33]

To me hell being eternal torment is just. If you look at it an eternal being gave his life and die on a cross so that regular people like me and you could live for ever with him. So if you reject his free gift of life then the only just death is an eternal death. You see Jesus was an eternal being that should have never tasted death not even in a billion years but he died so that we which deserved death might live for ever. So to me the only recompense of not accepting this gift must be eternal.

[crochet1949]

God tells us about Both heaven and hell. How to be able to Be in heaven and how to stay Out of hell. And He's told us enough About hell that we know we don't want to end up there. He's given us salvation through Jesus Christ -- we Can accept That and share it with everyone who is willing to listen. It's up to the individual to either accept or reject salvation.
There is only This life to make an eternal decision -- because once a person Dies -- he's In eternity -- and there is the resurrection of the dead both of believers and non-believers.
What Has made me 'wonder' is Why people spend So much time researching about hell ie what actually happens as far as length of time of suffering, etc. And all the questions regarding how just or not God is for 'sending' people there. My response would be -- God doesn't send anyone to hell , but He Does know who will or won't accept Him -- when a person feels a concern for a certain group of people being in danger of Not hearing of salvation -- by all means Do something to meet that need. My sister and her husband did exactly that -- recently retired / came back to the States after spending 40 years ministering in Brazil. They Still correspond with their friends on Face Book in Brazilian Portugeese. My sister works with translating literature into that language.
But don't waste time / energy blaming God for all those people who you assume aren't hearing God's Word. Get in touch with a church that supports various missionaries in lots of countries. Send monitary funds to their mission board -- pray for them. Pray for those unknown people.
And be conscious of your neighbors / college classmates/ employees, etc. who might not be believers. Be willing to pray for them -- share with them as the opportunity presents itself.

[jpbg33]

The bible say you will be cased in to hell I don't know who will cast you in but someone will.