Does the forum believe in the rapture??

[Mallz]

"you can choose to believe God, or infallible man"

I hope you don't think you saw that in the argument I presented. It wasn't there

[RickD]

"you can choose to believe God, or infallible man"

I hope you don't think you saw that in the argument I presented. It wasn't there

No, absolutely not. I was actually trying to defend your use of pish posh to Dan.

Pish posh= good

God/infallible man=not so good

[Mallz]

Ok, I just wanted to clarify any other misunderstandings that might be going on ^_^

[RickD]

Ok, I just wanted to clarify any other misunderstandings that might be going on ^_^

Other than your arriving at a pre trib rapture because of your misunderstanding scripture, I don't see any misunderstandings.

[Mallz]

lol, well show me why I'm wrong!

[Danieltwotwenty]

"you can choose to believe God, or infallible man"

I hope you don't think you saw that in the argument I presented. It wasn't there

No, absolutely not. I was actually trying to defend your use of pish posh to Dan.

Pish posh= good

God/infallible man=not so good

Saying someone's argument is just pish posh is rather insulting and is not an acceptable attitude for debate. Sorry Rick I think you are wrong.

[RickD]

"you can choose to believe God, or infallible man"

I hope you don't think you saw that in the argument I presented. It wasn't there

No, absolutely not. I was actually trying to defend your use of pish posh to Dan.

Pish posh= good

God/infallible man=not so good

Saying someone's argument is just pish posh is rather insulting and is not an acceptable attitude for debate. Sorry Rick I think you are wrong.

Pish posh to you then!

[Danieltwotwenty]

"you can choose to believe God, or infallible man"

I hope you don't think you saw that in the argument I presented. It wasn't there

No, absolutely not. I was actually trying to defend your use of pish posh to Dan.

Pish posh= good

God/infallible man=not so good

Saying someone's argument is just pish posh is rather insulting and is not an acceptable attitude for debate. Sorry Rick I think you are wrong.

Pish posh to you then!

What if I said posh pish, does that change things?

[Rob]

There's a lot to go over in Mallz's post. I haven't the time right now, but I'll probably take a stab at it later. Once again, I'd recommend Chris White's video that I linked earlier for a very long presentation about why he (and I- for right now anyway- I'm open to change.) believes in the post-trib, pre-wrath view of the rapture, but for the moment I have to say that I see no reason why Jn. 14:1-4, 1 Cor. 15:51-58, and 1 Thes. 4:13-18 must not refer to the Day of the Lord.

[Philip]

Post, pre, mid, whatever, this is all fun, interesting, but presently ALL basically a waste of time! Why? Because they are all filled with mere speculations based upon currently unknowable variables and many uncertainties, any one of which you get wrong and your favored eschatological scenario collapses like a house of cards.

I've posted these before, but here is a good listing of the many reasons why this is true:

http://michaelsheiser.com/TheNakedBible ... iscussion/

[MrSpock]

I think you missed the point I was trying to make. The point I was trying to make is that we as Christians and as the church will not escape the tribulation.

It depends on what you mean by tribulation.

I study this a lot myself and have changed thoughts, but today it seems to me the rapture will occur right around the sixth seal. Rev 7 to me shows a picture of the rapture.

Now, does this mean the church escaped tribulation by avoiding the trumpet and bowl judgments only?

You can argue both sides on this one.

But it seems to me God has not appointed the church to experience his wrath, which seems to commence at the 6th seal.

[jpbg33]

I have been reading though this post and wow there are a lot of thing in here that are not in the bible at all. One satan's wrath what is that. My bible say that God is sending angels to send judgment on earth. satan has nothing to do with it. satan an the antichrist are trying to take advantage of the tribulation, but God is ultimately the one who is responsible for the tribulation not satan. It is Gods wrath not satans. The bible say people will be saved in the tribulation. it says if you do not take the mark and worship the beast then you will be saved. One other thing Israel coming out of Egypt and the plagues and the wilderness and Canaanland are a for shadows of the end times and Christians.

Israel was the for shadow of Christians and the plagues did not effect them they were spared from all of the plagues but one they had to put the blood on the doors of there house or the first born of that house would die. That was because putting the blood on the door was the representation of them accepting the blood of Jesus to save them which is a for shadow of when we are saved we accept the blood of Jesus. Then who ever put the blood on the door of there house was spared from all the plagues. The 10 plagues represent the 70 weeks each plagues is 7 weeks. Goshen represents the Christians in heaven set apart from the wrath of God and the wondering in the wilderness represents the life of a Christian and how that if a Christian enders to the end of there life they will enter into heaven which is what Canaanland represents. There is more to it then that but I do not wont to make the post to long and hard to read.

[Rob]

I have been reading though this post and wow there are a lot of thing in here that are not in the bible at all.

Oh the irony.

[Starhunter]

I think you missed the point I was trying to make. The point I was trying to make is that we as Christians and as the church will not escape the tribulation.

It depends on what you mean by tribulation.

I study this a lot myself and have changed thoughts, but today it seems to me the rapture will occur right around the sixth seal. Rev 7 to me shows a picture of the rapture.

Now, does this mean the church escaped tribulation by avoiding the trumpet and bowl judgments only?

You can argue both sides on this one.

But it seems to me God has not appointed the church to experience his wrath, which seems to commence at the 6th seal.

Verse 14 says "they have come out of great tribulation." They must have been in it to come out of it. It says they will hunger and thirst no more. They had been through some pretty awful times when the sun scorched the earth etc.
God will wipe away all tears? They have not even escaped emotional hardship.
That tells me that God preserved them through troubled times.

[abelcainsbrother]

I have changed my mind.

I believed before that some Christians could be left behind based on Matthew 25 and the ten virgins but I no longer believe that.

I now believe if you have been saved then you will be raptured and its the hypocrites that get left behind,people who are acting like a Christian but have never been saved by Jesus,but they go to church,preach,teach,etc but never were saved.I believe these are the Christians that do get saved or they choose to die and not take the mark of the beast during the tribulation.

Nobody can lose their salvation but not everybody has truly been saved and will realize it when they are left behind after the rapture.