Hurricane Katrina

[Deborah]

I do not believe this is an act of god.

[Kurieuo]

I think the majority here thankfully concur.

Kurieuo

[Believer]

Were did this come from then? God is in control over all things and satan, He only allows satan to do things to a certain extent like satan did with Job, but only has to have God's permission.

Thinker, how about the following for an idea?

All these natural disasters that are taking such a huge toll and affecting us all around the globe are like the contractions or birth pains of a woman in labour.
As happens in labour, the contractions get increasingly stronger, and closer and closer together, as the end of her labour draws near.
So these kind of things will happen, and happen again and again, with greater frequency and impact as the fulfilment of time comes about, culminating eventually (and we do not know exactly when) in the return of Our Lord.

From the above quote, this means the second coming of God/Jesus, many, many people now talk about this with current things actually now fulfilling biblical prophecy. So how do you deny this was an act of God's allowing to happen either by God or by God allowing satan to do it? Prophecy by definition is something which is predicting something to happen. Weather forecasters predict the weather, but there are times they are not correct, they are not God, but they can see the things He has been rolling in. I am seeing with current trends and back researching that prophecy is being fulfilled as stated in the Bible.

[Believer]

Does evil in the world preclude the existence of God? It has been said that evil in the world precludes the existence of God, or at least takes away from His divine nature. Is this reasoning flawed and if so, why?

Evil in the world does not preclude the existence of God, but it might seem to preclude the existence of a holy and righteous God. God, however, is not the source of evil. It is the result of the sin of angels first, then man, who in the freedom God gave them were disobedient to Him and thereby brought evil into God's creation.

SOURCE: CLICK HERE

[Believer]

First to start off with, I don't hate people that hold atheistic beliefs, the thing I hate IS their atheistic beliefs. As you can see, Ellen Johnson, born in an atheist family, looks like a nice human being, and from watching her on t.v. like Larry King Live, she is nice, but her atheistic beliefs aren't. One thing I would like to mention is that the original founder and president of American Atheists had children. One of her children broke free from his mother's atheistic beliefs and found belief in God which is still strong. According to the man, he has said that her mother was the most wicked woman on earth, Ellen Johnson said she wasn't (of course she would say that, being an atheist, they are like one another and show 'care'), but how does Ellen Johnson know? She didn't grow up with the woman, and she denies everything the man said about her mother, yet the man grew up with his mother.

David Silverman, a Jewish atheist and communications director for American Atheists, actually for once claims an existing God (even though he puts God in quotes), from his remarks, but he said God was responsible.

Interesting that both 'sidekicks' have a tweaked belief from one another, yet I still want to slap them . They are just NOW saying they want to help, but who was on site first? The people that actually care, the Christians. These atheists just want to make a good impression by saying 'we care too, we will help', so why were they not down there when Hurricane Katrina struck when all others were already down there? Not to mention, Ellen Johnson 'urging her own flock to support disaster relief efforts', where does her support come in? She sounds like she doesn't want to get involved but get her 'flock' to do it instead so it leaves a good impression on her. Atheists really just don't get it and don't care. Plain and simple.

Ellen Johnson

IN KATRINA'S WAKE
Atheists: No prayer for disaster victims
U.S. group says president violating Constitution by urging pleas to God

Posted: September 5, 2005
9:15 p.m. Eastern

© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com

The American Atheists organization says President Bush should stop urging prayer for Hurricane Katrina victims because it violates the Constitution.

Ellen Johnson, president of the group said Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco and Bush "should not be violating the Constitution by telling people to pray for the victims of Hurricane Katrina. It's unconstitutional for government officials to be promoting religion; and besides, judging from the speed of some relief efforts, officials should be busy working instead of preaching."

In urging her own flock to support disaster relief efforts, Johnson said: "Contrary to some, charity and mutual aid are not the monopoly of religious organizations."

While some government officials are calling for prayer and trying to focus public attention on the work done by some religious groups, America's diverse community of nonbelievers — Atheists, Freethinkers, Humanists and others — are joining the effort to support relief operations in New Orleans and the rest of the Gulf Coast.

Johnson also expressed alarm about religious activities behind some relief efforts.

"We're getting reports of how some religion-based 'aid' groups are trying to fly evangelists into the stricken areas and how U.S. Army Chaplains are carrying Bibles — not food or water — to 'comfort' people at the New Orleans Superdome," she said. "People need material aid, medical care and economic support — not prayers and preaching."

Dave Silverman, communications director for American Atheists, went even further — blaming God for taking thousands of lives both in the Asian tsunami lat year and again in the Gulf Coast.

"It appears that despite all of the outbursts of public religiosity and prayer, 'God' was once again asleep at the wheel," he said. "Only human beings can deal with the calamities of the natural world. God doesn't seem to be much help when it comes to rushing food, water, or antibiotics when people are suffering."

Johnson said her group is trying to encourage atheists to contribute money to relief organizations that do not proselytize as part of their rescue efforts.

SOURCE: CLICK HERE

[Deborah]

um she should go shove her head back in that paper bag it's been in all her life.

If your aithiest, then it's simple you DO NOT PRAY, If your of faith then you do.

She is just as bad as those she criticizes for shoving her atheist views down the throats of believers.

And her suggestion that the faithful from the hurricane don't need prayer or comfort from their fellow believers. Well she can just place it where the sun don't shine!



PS a big thankyou to my brother in christ, you know who you are

[sandy_mcd]

She is just as bad as those she criticizes for shoving her atheist views down the throats of believers.

Worse, she is a hypocrite. sandy

[Believer]

New Orleans City Council President: "Maybe God's Going To Cleanse Us"

NEW ORLEANS, September 1, 2005 (LifeSiteNews.com) - The popular adage, "there are no atheists in the trenches" sums up the truth that in times of disaster it is natural for people to turn to God, for help and also for an explanation. The devastation wrought by hurricane Katrina has brought that reality home to the United States, particularly in the affected regions.

Yesterday Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco called for a state-wide day of prayer. "As we face the devastation wrought by Katrina, as we search for those in need, as we comfort those in pain and as we begin the long task of rebuilding, we turn to God for strength, hope and comfort," she said. Meanwhile, New Orleans City Council President Oliver Thomas after witnessing the horrors first hand and hearing talk of Sodom and Gomorrah commented, "Maybe God's going to cleanse us."

The theme of cleansing or purification has become a frequently discussed topic as the tragedy in the affected states unfolds. European papers have suggested that Katrina was the punishment the US received for failing to sign onto the Kyoto accord, Islamic militants have rejoiced that "private" Katrina has joined in the holy war against the U.S. for - among other things - the Iraq war. Some have even suggested that the hurricane was God's punishment on the U.S. for cooperating in the removal of Jews from the Gaza strip.

However, beyond these speculations is a more general acknowledgement that New Orleans, the epicentre of the disaster, was a "sin city" which harboured few rivals. The New Orleans "southern decadence" festival which was to take place Labour Day weekend, is described by a French Quarter tourism site as "sort of like a gayer version of Mardi Gras" which is "most famous (or infamous) for the displays of naked flesh which characterize the event," with "public displays of sexuality . . . pretty much everywhere you look."

The city is also renowned for occult practices, particularly voodoo. Voodoo is also common in violence and crime saturated Haiti.

The American Spectator reports that "New Orleans has one of the highest murder rates in the country. By mid-August of this year, 192 murders had been committed in New Orleans, 'nearly 10 times the national average,' ...New Orleans was ripe for collapse. Its dangerous geography, combined with a dangerous culture, made it susceptible to an unfolding catastrophe. Currents of chaos and lawlessness were running through the city long before this week, and they were bound to come to the surface under the pressure of natural disaster and explode in a scene of looting and mayhem".

The Sept. 4 New York Daily News reported "Louisiana and New Orleans have a long, well-known reputation for corruption... Adjusted for population size, the state ranks third in the number of elected officials convicted of crimes (Mississippi is No. 1). Recent scandals include the conviction of 14 state judges and an FBI raid on the business and personal files of a Louisiana congressman." One former governor from the 1990's recently completed a prison term for tax fraud and the one that followed him, reports the Daily New, "is currently serving a 10-year prison sentence for taking bribes from casino owners".

The Daily News goes on to note that in the 1990s the New Orleans Police Department "had the dubious distinction of being the nation's most corrupt police force and the least effective: the city had the highest murder rate in America. More than 50 officers were eventually convicted of crimes including murder, rape and robbery; two are currently on Death Row."

Michael Brown, creator of the immensely popular SpiritDaily.com website - popularly known as the Catholic DrudgeReport, has said that Katrina was "definitely" a purification for New Orleans. Brown points out that the name Katrina itself means "pure". And that, Brown told LifeSiteNews.com, is not a coincidence. "I don't believe in coincidences," said Brown, adding that God has everything in His control and "I think that everything is interwoven."

LifeSiteNews.com contacted Brown due to his startlingly accurate prediction of the events in New Orleans in 2001, when he issued what is now being seen as a warning to New Orleans. In 2001 Brown wrote a piece about what he felt was upcoming disaster for New Orleans.

Brown began, "There are few cities with so many good as New Orleans and also few cities where there is such a stark coexistence with the bad. It is this city, the Big Easy, that is home to kind and generous and Christian people . . . and yet also this city that has allowed evil to flourish in a way that has become truly dangerous." Noting the occult practices and the sexual immorality, Brown warned, "When you invoke dark spirits, you get a storm. The very word hurricane comes from the Indian hurukan for evil spirit."

Brown claims no hearing of inner voices, but said in his warning to the city, "When I visited the National Hurricane Center, they told me there was no place that gave them the meteorological willies like your city." Describing what would befall the city if a major hurricane were to strike, Brown said, "On Bourbon Street -- which has turned into a stretch of porn shops, strip joints, and hooter bars -- there would be water to the second story."

"Officials told me that in the best of circumstances 100,000 would be stranded . . . If a category-five made landfall between your city and Baton Rouge . . . it would be 'the most catastrophic hurricane in the history of the United States.'"

SOURCE: CLICK HERE

[Believer]

Was Katrina Intelligent Design?

September 2, 2005

On his 89th birthday (August 31) NPR Senior News Analyst, Daniel Schorr, observed that President Bush had “staked out a non-position” on the debate between evolution and intelligent design. Bush had said that “both sides ought to be properly taught in the schools of America.” Then, with manifest scorn, Schorr linked the devastation of Hurricane Katrina with the concept of intelligent design: “[Bush] might well have reflected that, if this was the result of intelligent design, then the designer has something to answer for.”

No, Mr. Schorr, you have something to answer for, not God. God answers to no man. Come, Daniel Schorr, take your place with Job and answer your Maker: “The Lord answered Job [and Daniel Schorr] out of the whirlwind and said: 'Who is this that darkens counsel by words without knowledge? Dress for action like a man; I will question you, and you make it known to me. . . . Who shut in the sea with doors when it burst out from the womb, when I made clouds its garment and thick darkness its swaddling band, and prescribed limits for it and set bars and doors, and said, “Thus far shall you come, and no farther, and here shall your proud waves be stayed”?'” (Job 38:1-3, 8-11).

Who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Shall the pot say to the Potter, “This is an unintelligent way to show your justice and your power? Come, Maker of heaven and earth, sit at my feet—I have lived 89 years and have gotten much wisdom—and I will teach you—the eternal God—how to govern the universe”?

No. Rather let us put our hands on our mouths and weep both for the perishing and for ourselves who will soon follow. Whatever judgment has fallen, it is we who deserve it—all of us. And whatever mercy is mingled with judgment in New Orleans neither we nor they deserve.

God sent Jesus Christ into the world to save sinners. He did not suffer massive shame and pain because Americans are pretty good people. The magnitude of Christ's suffering is owing to how deeply we deserve Katrina—all of us.

Our guilt in the face of Katrina is not that we can't see the intelligence in God's design, but that we can't see arrogance in our own heart. God will always be guilty of high crimes for those who think they've never committed any.

But God commits no crimes when he brings famine, flood, and pestilence on the earth. “Does disaster come to a city, unless the Lord has done it?” (Amos 3:6). The answer of the prophet is no. God's own testimony is the same: “I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the Lord, who does all these things” (Isaiah 45:7). And if we ask, is there intelligent design in it all, the Bible answers: “You meant evil . . . but God meant it [designed it] for good” (Genesis 50:20).

This will always be ludicrous to those who put the life of man above the glory of God. Until our hearts are broken, not just for the life-destroying misery of human pain, but for the God-insulting rebellion of human sin, we will not see intelligent design in the way God mingles mercy and judgment in this world. But for those who bow before God's sovereign grace and say, “From him and through him and to him are all things. To him be glory forever,” they are able to affirm, “Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways!” (Romans 11:36, 33). And wisdom is another name for intelligent design.

No, Daniel Schorr, God does not answer to us. We answer to him. And we have only one answer: “Guilty as charged.” Every mouth is stopped and the whole world is accountable before God. There is only one hope to escape the flood of God's wrath. It is not the levee of human virtue but the high ground called Calvary. All brokenhearted looters and news analysts and pastors are welcome there.

SOURCE: CLICK HERE

[Believer]

I also want to add that if you donated your money to the American Red Cross, they didn't respond and/or didn't use the money given to them for Hurricane Katrina in time. They procrastinated (put it off). While I have seen an article or more on this, I did not get the links, but they can be found around the internet. But I just want to remind you again, who was there FIRST? It was the religious groups! "Did Katrina have people doubting their faith in God? Nope. It reinstated it! What drives atheists crazy is their inability to understand how a disaster brings someone closer to God."

[Believer]

Matthew 24:7-8 (New International Version)

7Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are the beginning of birth pains.

Got a few more upcoming disaster news articles available for you to read:

Hurricane Ophelia Expected To Hit SC Next Week

California Earthquake Could Be the Next Katrina

By Jia-Rui Chong and Hector Becerra Times Staff Writers
Thu Sep 8, 7:55 AM ET

U.S. Geological Survey seismologist Lucy Jones remembers attending an emergency training session in August 2001 with the Federal Emergency Management Agency that discussed the three most likely catastrophes to strike the United States.

First on the list was a terrorist attack in New York. Second was a super-strength hurricane hitting New Orleans. Third was a major earthquake on the San Andreas fault.

Now that the first two have come to pass, she and other earthquake experts are using the devastating aftermath of Hurricane Katrina as an opportunity to reassess how California would handle a major temblor.

Jones, scientist-in-charge for the geological survey's Southern California Earthquake Hazards Team, and other experts generally agree that California has come a long way in the last two decades in seismic safety.

In Los Angeles, all but one of 8,700 unreinforced masonry buildings — considered the most likely to collapse in a major quake — have been retrofitted or demolished. The state spent billions after the 1994 Northridge quake to retrofit more than 2,100 freeway overpasses, reporting this week that only a handful remain unreinforced.

Despite these improvements, however, officials believe that a major temblor could cause the level of destruction and disruption seen over the last week on the Gulf Coast.

More than 900 hospital buildings that state officials have identified as needing either retrofitting or total replacement have yet to receive them, and the state recently agreed to five-year extensions to hospitals that can't meet the 2008 deadline to make the fixes. More than 7,000 school buildings across the state would also be vulnerable during a huge temblor, a state study found, though there is no firm timetable for upgrading the structures.

And four Los Angeles Police Department facilities — including the Parker Center headquarters in downtown — worry officials, because they were built to primitive earthquake standards and might not survive a major temblor. Only two of the LAPD's 19 stations meet the most rigorous quake-safe rules.

"We could be dealing with infrastructure issues a lot like New Orleans," Jones said. "Our natural gas passes through the Cajon Pass…. Water — three pipelines — cross the San Andreas fault in an area that is expected to go in an earthquake." Railway lines are also vulnerable, she said.

A catastrophic temblor at the right spot along the San Andreas could significantly reduce energy and water supplies — at least temporarily, she and others said. Researchers at the Southern California Earthquake Center said there is an 80% to 90% chance that a temblor of 7.0 or greater magnitude will strike Southern California before 2024.

"We aren't anywhere close to where I wish we were" in terms of seismic safety, Jones said.

Seismologists are particularly concerned about a type of vulnerable building that has received far less attention than unreinforced masonry.

There are about 40,000 structures in California made from "non-ductile reinforced concrete," a rigid substance susceptible to cracking. This was a common construction ingredient for office buildings in the 1950s and '60s, before the state instituted stricter standards. Few such structures have been seismically retrofitted, officials said.

Seismic safety advocates have also recently lost some major battles in Sacramento. The state rejected a proposal from the Seismic Safety Commission in the wake of the 2003 San Simeon earthquake to force owners of unreinforced masonry buildings to post warning signs. In that quake, two women died when the roof slid off of a two-story Paso Robles brick building where they worked.

Last week, the Legislature sent to the governor's desk a bill that encourages local governments to develop retrofitting programs for "soft story" wood-frame apartment buildings.

There are an estimated 70,000 such structures in the state, and experts worry that they could sustain major quake damage, because they often have tuck-under parking and lack solid walls at their bases.

The danger of this kind of construction was illustrated in the 1994 collapse of the Northridge Meadows apartment complex, in which 16 residents were killed.

There are other potential safety gaps as well.

Although Los Angeles, Long Beach, Pasadena and several other cities have reinforced almost all their masonry buildings, about a third of such structures across the state remain unprotected, said Frank Turner, an engineer with the Seismic Safety Commission.

A state study published last year on hazard reduction paints a sobering picture of California's earthquake danger. About 62% of the population lives in a zone of high earthquake danger, including 100% of the population of Ventura County, 99% of Los Angeles County and 92% of Riverside County.

Since 1971, there have been at least 13 earthquakes of magnitude 6.0 or greater in the state, and research conducted after the 1989 Loma Prieta quake in the Bay Area found a 62% probability that at least one earthquake of magnitude 6.7 or more would strike the Bay Area before 2032.

"We're pretty confident we have some of the best buildings in the world here, but … there are always going to be losses, because these are extraordinary events," Turner said.

Still, Southern California's geography could help prevent a catastrophe on the scale of that in New Orleans.

Because the Los Angeles region is so much larger than the Louisiana city, it is difficult to conceive of a disaster — "short of an A-bomb" — that would blanket the whole city, let alone the whole county, in ruin, said Lee Sapaden, a spokesman for Los Angeles County's Office of Emergency Management.

Earthquakes tend to do the most damage closest to the epicenters. The 1994 Northridge quake, for example, damaged a large swath of the San Fernando Valley as well as parts of Hollywood and the Westside. But areas farther to the east and south, such as Long Beach and Orange County, saw little damage.

A large quake in the Valley would probably still allow emergency supplies and rescuers to reach the area from other locations such as the San Gabriel Valley and South Bay, Sapaden said.

Emergency crews would have better mobility than those in New Orleans, he added, because even if freeways were wrecked, aid would probably be able to get through the vast majority of areas on surface streets. "Here in Southern California, Riverside, San Bernardino, Orange and Santa Barbara counties would help us out, just like we would help them," he said.

One of the biggest concerns of seismic safety officials is the fate of hospitals.

The 1971 Sylmar earthquake pushed Olive View Medical Center a foot off its foundation, causing the first floor to collapse, killing three patients and a hospital worker. The 1994 Northridge quake knocked 23 hospitals temporarily out of service.

After that quake, the Legislature passed a law requiring that hospitals retrofit buildings to withstand a major temblor or replace them with new ones. About 78% of hospitals have at least one building deemed at risk, said Jan Emerson, spokeswoman for the California Hospital Assn.

But hospitals, many of which are fighting budget problems, have balked at the price tag — estimated at $24 billion for 2002-2030 — and in many cases have successfully pushed Sacramento to delay the retrofitting deadline. The state has already granted about 200 requests for extensions to make the necessary repairs by 2013, according to a state document.

Safety officials said more work is also needed at schools.

A 2002 state study found that more than 7,500 school buildings across California are expected to "perform poorly" in a major temblor.

The Los Angeles Unified School District has completed seismic upgrades to nearly 2,000 buildings, spending $222 million on the effort, according to Richard Luke, director of design for the district.

But the district has not finished upgrades on 600 portable buildings and will look at an additional 239 buildings identified by the Division of State Architect as possibly performing poorly during a major quake.

Jones of the geological survey and Turner of the Seismic Safety Commission believe that one worst-case scenario would involve a massive temblor on the San Andreas fault around where major utility lines run, possibly compromising water and power supplies.

"We should not be at all surprised if something similar to Hurricane Katrina mirrors itself in California," Turner said. "There have been lots of articles written about the failure of levees in the [Sacramento-San Joaquin] Delta, the loss of drinking water in California. This is just the tip of the iceberg."

About 60% of Southern California's water is imported from outside the region in three major aqueducts that cross the San Andreas fault, making them particularly vulnerable to major earthquake damage.

One branch of the 444-mile California Aqueduct, which carries water from the delta, virtually sits on top of the fault for a few miles near Palmdale. A second aqueduct from the Colorado River crosses the fault near Beaumont. And the Los Angeles Aqueduct, which transports snowmelt from the eastern Sierra, runs across the San Andreas in a mountain tunnel between Lancaster and Santa Clarita.

Southern California water managers say they've made progress in recent years building local reserves they could turn to if they lost water from one or more of the transport systems.

With such efforts, "we feel even more confident we are able to provide sufficient water to sustain us during an earthquake," said Debra Man, chief operating officer of the Metropolitan Water District of Southern California, the region's main water wholesaler.

Jim McDaniels, chief operating officer for the Los Angeles Department of Water and Power's water system, said that if disaster struck, the DWP could double its groundwater pumping within the basin and draw from its four big local reservoirs.

Major gas lines also come into Southern California over the San Andreas at several points, including at Indio, Palmdale, the Cajon Pass and the Tejon Ranch. Still, officials at the Southern California Gas Co. expressed confidence that the system could withstand a strong earthquake, noting they have been upgrading the pipeline for years.

Another open question is whether the major quake would cause damage to fire stations, police headquarters and facilities of other emergency agencies, possibly slowing their response. A state study found that many of the 1,300 emergency operations buildings were constructed before strict quake building standards were enacted in 1986, and that only a portion of those had been retrofitted.

At the LAPD, the only four facilities to meet the most recent and rigorous "essential building" standards are the department's newest: the West Valley and Mission police stations and two 911 dispatch centers.

Yvette Sanchez-Owens, head of the department's facilities management office, said she is most concerned about three stations built in the 1960s: Rampart, Hollenbeck and Harbor. Police officers at the Harbor station in San Pedro have been relocated to trailers while a new station is built; officers could be moved out of the Hollenbeck station in Boyle Heights sometime this fall as preparation for construction of a new station begins.

As for Parker Center, it already sustained significant damage during the Northridge earthquake. It is also scheduled to be replaced, but not for several years.

"It could be in real trouble," Sanchez-Owens said. "It's definitely not built up to standard."

Times staff writer Bettina Boxall contributed to this report.

SOURCE: CLICK HERE

[TimM1104]

An interesting thing a Pastor down south relayed up to my father when our church sent food and clothing down...

God is in control, sometimes he just has to remind us...

It is interesting and reassuring when you see someone, and notice them still stayig close and dear near god even during times of disasters...

[ryo dokomi]

im sure none of you have accually heard that there was a prophesy given in Texas in June or July about Hurricane Katrina and New Orleans. well if you go to http://www.kimclement.com and look under 'Prophesy in the News' you will find an reference to the prophesy that was spoken.

and of course it was written down for those people who were not there to know what it said. and those of you who dont believe in the prophetic read 1 Thes. 5:19-20

[sandy_mcd]

I went to http://www.kimclement.com/words/WordintheNews.htm; didn't see anything about Katrina and a "find in page" did not find the word Katrina either. [10Nov05]

[ryo dokomi]

okay sorry about that...they moved the link...here it is
http://www.kimclement.com/words/2005/July222005.htm

note the date given.