Eternal Security...(Revised May 2015)

[jpbg33]

Jesus was not talking about we are all to be disciples for Christ and Jesus said to pluck your eye out or you would go to hell that is not once saved always saved. The bible says " Mark 7:15 There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.". That is why it is what you do nothing out side of you can make you loose your salvation but you. The Jesus said this " John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. John 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.". So if you stay with Jesus then you will make it. The seal you are referring to was talking about a seal the king would give you and it was good until you brock the seal and when you broke it the seal was void.

[RickD]

Jesus was not talking about we are all to be disciples for Christ and Jesus said to pluck your eye out or would go to hell that is not once saved always saved. The bible says " Mark 7:15 There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.". That is why it is what you do nothing out side of you can make you loose our but you. The Jesus said this " John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. John 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.". So if you stay with Jesus then you will make it. The seal you are referring to was talking about a seal the king would give you and it was good until you brock the seal and when you broke it the seal was void.

[RickD]

And jpbg33,

I don't want to keep editing your posts. When you put bible verses in your posts, please put them like this:

John 10:28, not like this: Joh_10:28.

Written like this, John 10:28, we can move our cursor onto the verse to read it quickly.

Thanks

[jpbg33]

ok I'll do that I'm getting that line in there because of e-sored sorry about that.

[Rob]

Ugh, again!

John 6:35-40

How can Jesus lose those that are given to Him? Can someone be given to Him but then be lost later?
Are you saying that those He raises up on the last day are not necessarily all of those who are given?

[jpbg33]

What I am saying is that sure there are scriptures that you could say look as if you can not loose your salvation but at the same time there are a lot of scripture that look as if you can loose it and in most of both type of verses you can get them to say ether way depending on how you interpret them. But to just say this verse says you can't loose it and over look other verses that say you can is not right and to take a verse that says you can loose it and say it is just referring to some spiritual thing that really doesn't have to do with loosing it or not is not right ether. Not only that but if reading the verses and using the interpretation that you can't loose your salvation and say that is the right meaning makes other scripture inaccurate. That is why using the meaning that you can loose it sound right to me because it make all scripture fit together right with out any contradictory.

[Rob]

Please address my questions.

The scriptures I mentioned are Jesus speaking plainly and not using figurative language. Do you believe Jesus really means to literally tear out your eye if it offends you? Did He also mean to lay eggs when He said to be like doves?
So I guess did He really not say what He did in the verses I mentioned? Or was he just playing around with us?

It must suck to be under the bondage of such legalism.

[jpbg33]

Are you talking about when the bible says to be "wise as serpents and harmless as doves". If you are then that has nothing to do with laying egg but to be harmless as a dove just like a dove. if he wonted us to lay eggs he would have told us to lay eggs like chickens not doves.

[Rob]

Are you talking about when the bible says to be "wise as serpents and harmless as doves". If you are then that has nothing to do with laying egg but to be harmless as a dove just like a dove. if he wonted us to lay eggs he would have told us to lay eggs like chickens not doves.

Nice deflection.
Again, answer my original questions please. What did Jesus really mean when He said He would lose none of those given to Him? Can't you answer that?

[jpbg33]

I will reply on that but I wont to go back and read it in context first I'll be right back.

[jpbg33]

I believe that if we are going to Jesus then we will be trying to live right and if we are not trying to live right then we are like the ones that just seen him but didn't really believe.

[Rob]

SO... Are you saying that those who do not try to live right are not given to Him then? I don't necessarily disagree with that.
What if someone tries to live right sometimes but doesn't other times? Were they only given to Him part of the time or would you say they were never given to Him to begin with?

[jpbg33]

Really I have no problem with the eternal security thing my problem is on who is eternally secure. I can see were it says when we are saved we will go to heaven and that it is not by works but I also see were it says that if someone is saved that they will live right. I refer to people as backsliding because they are not trying to do right when the bible say they will do right if they are saved and if someone says they were saved But are not trying to live right now I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt that they were saved before when maybe they were really not saved to began with. With all that said I do also see where the bible say God will cut people off for unbelief and that is where the benefit of the doubt comes from. All of this leads me to believe that you are eternally secure as long as you believe and your works is prof you still believe Paul said show me your faith with out your works and I will show you my faith by my works. That doesn't sound like to me that he thought people with out work really had faith to me.

[Storyteller]

Where does it say that if someone is saved they will live right?

Being cut off for unbelief is different to not being saved. How can you be saved without belief?

Show me

[jpbg33]

One place is here "1 John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. ".