Eternal Security...(Revised May 2015)

[Storyteller]

Not being able to spell well doesn't mean you are not smart but it sure makes you look dumb.

Not so much if a person says sensible things, cares enough to use spell check, and otherwise makes an effort. It is like
brushing your hair, dressing neatly and generally showing some self respect in public.

It is not showing respect for readers to present an unintelligible mess.
If a person doesn't show respect for himself or others, he should hardly
be surprised or self righteous about it if people dont respect his posts.

It is not respectful to readers to be so nasty in a completely unprovoked exchange, especially highlighted by the fact that the person was showing a level of vulnerability.
So you just felt like it, real nice.
Guess your English professor mother never taught you if you have nothing nice to say keep your damn mouth shut!

You think this guy hasn't experienced this sh*t numerous times in his life, guaranteed he has. That's just people for you though isn't it. I would like to think this forum is a place where anyone can come and share, sure be challenged on their ideas and beliefs but not in this way.

Now I could be completely wrong but our friend here shows some classic symptoms of primary dyslexia. It is genetic. They are right brain predominant thinkers which not only makes spelling, reading, writing difficult, but also subtleties in language that we easily pick up are not identified. What can be viewed as naivety, stupidity ect is especially in this type of written communication environment because the brain can't as easily pick up on it. They are not stupid or naive. They are not less intelligent, they are not lazy needing to just apply themselves, it is how their brain is wired and processes information.

Whether I'm right or wrong regarding this is irrelevant. We shouldn't use a person's vulnerabilities to belittle them.
I'm sorry I have never been the kind of person who can sit by and watch that happen, I have lost friends over it and that's a price I'm willing to pay.

To be fair Audie, jpbg33 did say that he uses google to spell check and that he (?) doesn't read a lot. For my part in teasing him I have apologised. I ghink it's fine to disagree with the content of a post but it's not really fair to dismiss it becsuse of how it is written.
Someones ability to express themselves has no bearing on the validity of their posts, or how 'intelligent' they are.
It's obvious that jpbg is passionate about what he believes and I think it's wrong to assume he isn't making an effort. So his communication might not be great but that in itself doesn't negate his ideas.

[jpbg33]

The bible doesn't say Christians don't come under condemnation. This is what it says " Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. ". You are leaving the last part off "who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit". But you could be right the last half of that verse could be explaining who the people are that are in Christ Jesus. If that is the case then that supports my argument that once you are saved you will no longer live a sinful life but do you best to live right in everything that you do.

[Storyteller]

But trying to live right doesn't mean we will not sin does it?

[Audie]

jpbg33..Melanie feels I have spoken to you in an offensive manner. If that is the case, please tell me what I said that causes personal offense, and I will go out of my way to apologize and improve myself.

[jpbg33]

if you did I have already over looked it " forgive and forget ". No hard fillings over here.

The bible say that he will cut down the fruit trees that are not fruitful and cast them into the fire.

Yes it dose not mean we will not sin again. But to go around and sin because it dose not matter. I do not agree with that. If that is someone's attitude I do not think they are really saved or if they were then they must have backslid and are not any more.


I know this is a long passage but is explans my argument really well.

2Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2Peter 2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
2Peter 2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
2Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
2Peter 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
2Peter 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
2Peter 2:7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
2Peter 2:8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;)
2Peter 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
2Peter 2:10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.
2Peter 2:11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.
2Peter 2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
2Peter 2:13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
2Peter 2:14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
2Peter 2:15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
2Peter 2:16 But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.
2Peter 2:17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
2Peter 2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.

I missed this last part sorry

2Peter 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
2Peter 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

[RickD]

jpbg wrote:
The bible say that he will cut down the fruit trees that are not fruitful and cast them into the fire.

If you read the verse in its proper context of matthew 7, you'll see that it's referring to unsaved false prophets. It's not talking about believers losing salvation.

Yes it dose not mean we will not sin again. But to go around and sin because it dose not matter. I do not agree with that. If that is someone's attitude I do not think they are really saved or if they were then they must have backslid and are not any more.

Eternal security is not a license to sin. It does matter if we sin. We have consequences for sin. Natural consequences here and now. And consequences such as broken fellowship with God and others. And loss of rewards in heaven, perhaps.

[jpbg33]

Accualy Jesus said every tree so it is not only talking adout false profets.

2Pe 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

2Peter 2:19 say if you promise liberty (that it is ok to sin). you yourself are servants of corruption and are in bondage of sin.

2Peter 2:20 says if after you are saved you turn back in to a sinful life then it is worse for you then if you never got saved in the first place.


John 3:16 is talking about how to get saved and that saved people are going to heaven it is not talking about whether you can loose it or not.

[RickD]

jpbg wrote:
Accualy Jesus said every tree so it is not only talking adout false profets.

Context is the key. You're not looking at proper context.

As far as 2 Peter, the entire chapter is about false teachers. Not believers.

Look at the context.

John 3:16 is talking about how to get saved and that saved people are going to heaven it is not talking about whether you can loose it or not.

John 3:16 says that if one believes in/trusts Christ for salvation, one has eternal life. We've been over this before. It says ETERNAL LIFE. Which means one who trusts Christ will live eternally. If someone can lose salvation, then they only had temporary life, not eternal. And john 3:16 is a lie.

Can't you see the contradiction in what you're asserting? There are plenty of bible verses that say a believer cannot lose salvation. Yet you say a believer can lose salvation. Why can't you see that?

[jpbg33]

Actually "every tree" in contexts of scripture and wording means that false prophets are some of many trees. If that were not the case then to be a unfruitful tree you would have to be a false prophet but that isn't the case you can be a unfruitful tree with out being a false prophet. Jesus said that every unfruitful tree would be cut down and burned.

there is not a lot of scriptures that say you can not loose your salvation. It is just in your of some of them that you say they say that.

2Peter 2:19-20 says you can loose it directly.

2Pe 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

And john 3:16 says "who so ever believeth in him" So if you stop believing in him you are no longer cover by that verse because you do not believe and if what that verse says is true then the opposite of that verse must be true also "who so ever believeth not in him shall perish".

[1over137]

Jpbg33, what do you think of Phil 1:6?
6 For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.

[jpbg33]

Yes as long as we are alive we will be growing in grass and learning more about how to please God and if we love God more then our selves we will be willing to grow and because better Christians. That has nothing to do with loosing salvation or not loosing salvation.

[LittleHamster]

This thread reminds me of the time that an old man from one of those weird denominational churches would come up to me with great excitement and scream out..

"you're there !, you're there !, you're already there !!!!"

Then I'd get excited too and say "Yay, I'm there ! , I'm there !"

But I didn't really know what he was talking about at the time. (see this thread's subject heading for answer).

[RickD]

Yes as long as we are alive we will be growing in grass and learning more about how to please God and if we love God more then our selves we will be willing to grow and because better Christians. That has nothing to do with loosing salvation or not loosing salvation.

Could it be possible that Philippians 1:6 is Paul talking about how he is confident that God will keep Timothy secure in his salvation? That Paul is trusting God and believing in God's promise?

[jpbg33]

Paul wasn't saying that saints at Philippi couldn't backslid but that he had confidence that God was going to help them to the end. He wasn't referring to loosing salvation or not loosing salvation. If you say that is proof that you can not loose salvation that is taking that verse out of context.

[RickD]

Paul wasn't saying that saints at Philippi couldn't backslid but that he had confidence that God was going to help them to the end. He wasn't referring to loosing salvation or not loosing salvation. If you say that is proof that you can not loose salvation that is taking that verse out of context.

Look at the verse:
6 For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.

It doesn't say anything about God helping anybody. It says Paul is confident that God, the one who began the work in Timothy(or the Philippians), will PERFECT the work in Timothy(or the Philippians). The work that God began in them is salvation. God began it, He WILL finish it.

But that's not the only bible verse that shows our salvation is secure in God.

Here are more. Feel free to choose one you want to discuss.

2 Timothy 1:12
John 5:24
1 John 5:11-13
John 10:27-30
Romans 8:1
John 6:37
Romans 8:38-39
John 20:31
John 3:36
1 John 3:14
John 6:39
2 Corinthians 5:17

jpbg,
Who are you trusting for salvation? God? or your own performance?