IB, PYP & Other Programmes

[Kurieuo]

Has anyone got any good resources against International Baccalaureate, PYP and its other programmes?

In particular, a Christian response to the programme. Any laymen's resources.

The school I send my daughter has adopted it, and a Christian school of all places. So looking to try change minds of lay people with why they should reject PYP and the Secular Humanist doctrine that underpins it.

[Ivellious]

What exactly is your concern/problem with the IB program? I was never a part of it (my school became an IB school the year after I graduated), but my brother takes a few IB classes and loves it. As far as I can tell, my school's IB classes have gotten rave reviews overall. Lots of schools in the area, both public and private, are moving to become IB certified as well.

And I'm not entirely sure where you get a religious argument out of it...IB programs and classes might be secular in nature, but I'm sure any religious school that becomes an IB school still teaches religious classes and enforces its beliefs. And I can't imagine how IB math classes or IB reading classes or IB science classes would be any more secular than your regular math, reading, or science classes...they just tend to move through material faster and are expected to work harder, study more, etc...it's like a set pf honors classes that is regulated by an international group.

[Kurieuo]

Well, not sure if relevant to you, but I came across the following which outlines some concerns of philosophical nature.

I personally wonder what good can come from one organisation setting definitions, terminology and values for schools to abide by in their curricula. I'm more concerned that an organisation attached to the UN and strong Humanistic philosophy, that the processes taught to "critical thinking" would be akin to say the Watchtower of JWs.

Why create restrictions in teaching, that teachers must abide by, if really truly interested in diversity of opinion and free thinking? Once a school adopts it, it seriously seems like a cultish framework for some united international education.

IB's mission statement even appears to embrace truth as relative. There seems to be a structuralist philosophy of reality embedded within the education, such that we in a way create our worlds. There is no true right and wrong, which is born out through the ambiguous marking system and way questions get posed (ahh, except within the teaching guidelines set by IB of course).

Consider also that many schools are now deciding to drop PYP from their curricula. For example, http://www.cdapress.com/news/local_news ... 72a83e.htm and in particular one poster's comments which highlights various other issues:

Most areas don't mention the ideology when dropping IB,
http://myinclinevillage.com/2011/03/09/ ... op-ib.aspx
Here are other reasons IB is not a good fit for most schools,
1) Compared to AP, IB will increase college costs for most students.
2) IB will not improve student performance.
3) IB's pedagogical method is one of constructivism and inquiry based learning to promote a specific ideology.
4) IB is extremely expensive.
5) Many schools drop IB. The reasons most often stated are: a) Cost, b) Lack of student improvement with IB, c) Less flexible than AP, d) Lack of participation in IB classes, e) Lack of college credit for IB.
6) Some people object to IB on religious grounds.
7) There is no record of a school ever being turned down for IB, so long as the money is available.
At the elementary level IB is required for all children in the school and the stated goal is to "develop attitudes," and to get students to "take action." At the middle school the IB suggests IB be implemented school wide. Children of parents who object to the IB ideology are sometimes forced into IB.
9) Many international teachers and former IB teachers are against the programme.
10) IB is an NGO of UNESCO (UN), IB and UNESCO work out of the same building in Switzerland. The goal is to promote the UN ideology.
11) IB has little to do with real education and more to do with ideology; specifically the UN’s ideology and Agenda 21.
12) With IB schools give up some local control. Any disputes are handled in Switzerland with Swiss law.
13) Some states and political parties are trying to eliminate IB.
14) The IB diploma required TOK class is composed entirely of questions like, "When can it be right to disobey the law? Can suicide bombers be right?"

15) AP is the best fit for gifted students.
16) When IB/AP classes are combined the IB material must take priority.
17) For the IB diploma students must complete: six required classes in two years (three one year classes and three two year classes), a UN influenced philosophy course, write an extended essay, and complete 150 hours of community service.
18) IB is implemented in a deceitful way over and over throughout the United States. Once someone questions IB an open and honest discussion is never allowed, and the community becomes divided.
To find proof supporting all the points above read the entire article, http://www.MyInclineVillage.com/
There are numerous active IB battles going on in the US, some of them can be found at, http://www.TruthAboutIB.com

I just don't see the benefits. Perhaps you could describe some? Some that a actually proven apart from what you see on the IB website and marketing videos and written material? Besides the feel-good Humanist values, what tangible results have there been? Why did your brother love it so much?

And IB's process of thinking being taught to prep (5 years) and 6+ year olds... just seems like purposeful indoctrination rather than teaching true critical thinking methods outside of what IB sets the framework for.

[Kurieuo]

Ivel, when it comes to truth and reality you strike me as somewhat as believing in objective truth and realism.

PYP is largely built upon Constructivism and all that embraces. Have a read of this Wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructi ... education)

My concerns are simply more than "secular" or "non-Christian", but rather concerns the place of true critical thinking and knowledge of truth.

[Kurieuo]

In particular, consider the following from that article:

Social constructivism or socioculturalism encourages the learner to arrive at his or her version of the truth, influenced by his or her background, culture or embedded worldview. Historical developments and symbol systems, such as language, logic, and mathematical systems, are inherited by the learner as a member of a particular culture and these are learned throughout the learner's life. This also stresses the importance of the nature of the learner's social interaction with knowledgeable members of the society. Without the social interaction with other more knowledgeable people, it is impossible to acquire social meaning of important symbol systems and learn how to utilize them. Young children develop their thinking abilities by interacting with other children, adults, and the physical world. From the social constructivist viewpoint, it is thus important to take into account the background and culture of the learner throughout the learning process, as this background also helps to shape the knowledge and truth that the learner creates, discovers, and attains in the learning process (Wertsch, 1997).

[Kurieuo]

Ivel, sorry, didn't mean to put you off if I did.

I'd actually be interested to hear your thoughts about the underlying philosophies embedded within.

A main concern is not necessarily the content, so much as the very post-modern framework where everyone has their own truth... this has to seep through such that the way a person thinks about issues is shaped, not the content they're learning. In my opinion, this is more dangerous.

To say that you have your "truth", and I have my "truth", but together we can unite and create a truth acceptable to both of us which is superior than our individual truth. Such throws out any meaning to "truth" and fails to take seriously your beliefs and my own beliefs and the differences within that are simply logically irreconcilable.

Now the "content" at the school I send my daughter to is still obviously going to be very Christian. But, the education process and structure including the didactic content that gets set and that is all IB, then this shapes the mind to think in a certain manner controlled ultimately by IB philosophies. It's going to seep down into the way teachers teach, the questions kids are taught to ask, how they see truth, morality, meaning... and the marking system which is quite diluted when it comes to saying a child really is wrong with their answer... etc.

Do you see what is wrong with all this, and what I'm getting at here?

[Ivellious]

Oh no, you didn't put me off of replying...this week I'm just extra busy with exams and papers for school so I haven't had much free time. Once I get through the next couple days I'll reply in greater detail.

[Kurieuo]

Great. I know I can seem overbearing at time.

There's a lot to digest about PYP when one starts looking into it. Seems great surface level and what gets promoted, but dig deeper and it really starts to wreak.

It is built upon an extreme philosophy of Empiricism (not simply a scientific methodology, but over and against Rationalism) fused with Structuralism. This can sounds great and very positive... but then at the end I believe these philosophies leave one feeling bankrupt about any belief.

And the UN? I'm not against outside influence, but given the affiliations there, and trying to set the philosophical thinking and education of entire nations to conform with their own agendas... something about that infuriates me as an Australian, as it probably would many Americans as US citizens. I don't want to be absorbed into being an "international citizen", but rather respected as an Australian.

[Kurieuo]

For anyone reading, there is a course in high school years, Theory of Knowledge.

A committee performed a review of this curriculum. It found students were "taking the easy way out" in their essays by subscribing to truth being relative to the subject. The full review can be found at: http://www.eabdf.br/uploaded/School_Lif ... port_2.pdf

Perhaps students were just writing responses they felt IB desired so as to get better scores, but otherwise it seems like the programmes are just churning out students who ultimately believe knowledge and truth can't be known and is all relative. This is exactly my fear in this IB education which is based upon a Structuralist philosophy and a curriculum injected with issues influenced by the UN via UBESCO (which has the same address in Sweden as IBO).

Students end up launched into the world, with an extreme skepticism... to believe that truth is simply what you make it (constructivism). To believe that all beliefs are equally true, is to ultimately believe nothing is really true. Such is extremely dangerous socially and nationally and results in a complete break down of valid values and beliefs.

So ironically, all the values IB wish to drill into students to establish good "International [Baccalaureate] Citizens": Knowledgeable, Risk-takers, Principled, Balanced, Communicators, Reflective, Caring, Thinkers, Open-minded, Inquirers (IB Learner Profile) within political themes of "Who we are", "Where we are in place and time", "How we express ourselves", "How the world works", "How we organize ourselves" and "Sharing the planet"... thus ultimately end up having the rug pulled out from underneath as students leave college believing only beliefs practical to their personal lives matter.

Within the last year, based on this report, IB have attempted to add a little more "structure" to the TOK course. Seeing a need to introducing students to Objective positions on truth and other methods a person might gain knowledge. It is both interesting and sad that our countries (US and Australia) are ultimately allowing the UN and ultimately a European organisation to test and play with new generations youth.

Forget Christian values. IB overthrows National values, and ultimately even its own values and beliefs it tries to install in students. No wonder, IB students everywhere appear to think its one big joke (judging from the number of IB youtube clips out there). Governments should be really intervening, but instead allow schools to welcome IBO programmes with open arms.

One day if people don't wake up and cause change, everyone might just end up all being good International Citizens conforming to IB's Learner Profile.

I'd be interested to hear from anyone who has undertaken IB curriculum on these thoughts here.

[Kurieuo]

"Fundamentalism is at work in the West as much as in the East. It is in major religious groups whether these be different Christians groups, Islamic, Jewish or Hindu groups. It is on the streets of Tel Aviv and Gaza City, in both Shia and Sunni Islam, in rural Afghanistan, in Hindu nationalism and some sections of the BJP in India, in the moral majority in the United States, in groups within the Catholic church or in evangelical Anglican groups in Sydney.
...
Fundamentalism encourages a ‘we’ and ‘us’ attitude:
‘We’ are right, ‘they’ are wrong.
‘We’ are virtuous, ‘they’ are wicked.
‘We’ have the truth, ‘they’ are creatures of the lie.
‘We’ are good, ‘they’ are evil.

Where cultures are not under threat, dialogue becomes possible. Where cultures see themselves as oppressed then dialogue is impossible. Some sections of United States society are increasingly fundamentalist with the ‘we’ and ‘us’ attitude clearly on the rise (as the philosopher Martha Nussbaum has argued). After 9/11 there has been a dangerous increase in the idea that ‘we’ are good and ‘they’ are evil. ‘We’ stand for freedom, democracy and the American way (including capitalism, low taxes and, in some quarters, with links to negative attitudes to homosexuality and abortion) and ‘they’ stand for anyone who rejects ‘we’"

Dr Peter Vardi, Keynote speaker for IB conference:
http://www.ibo.org/ibap/conference/documents/Vardy.doc

So Christians or the US are not better than terrorists?

Err... sorry, but US had every right to call what was done evil and go after those responsible. And yes, call me fundamentalist but 9/11 was "evil".

Interesting that this guy placed up to address an important issue by IBO, does't see the "fundamentalist" and the "we" he defines in his own position.

[B. W.]

In particular, consider the following from that article:

Social constructivism or socioculturalism encourages the learner to arrive at his or her version of the truth, influenced by his or her background, culture or embedded worldview. Historical developments and symbol systems, such as language, logic, and mathematical systems, are inherited by the learner as a member of a particular culture and these are learned throughout the learner's life. This also stresses the importance of the nature of the learner's social interaction with knowledgeable members of the society. Without the social interaction with other more knowledgeable people, it is impossible to acquire social meaning of important symbol systems and learn how to utilize them. Young children develop their thinking abilities by interacting with other children, adults, and the physical world. From the social constructivist viewpoint, it is thus important to take into account the background and culture of the learner throughout the learning process, as this background also helps to shape the knowledge and truth that the learner creates, discovers, and attains in the learning process (Wertsch, 1997).

This is a stratagem used to first teach folks about their culture in order to then proceed later, after building a framework of 'open borders' that ones culture is evil and need of of enlighten change - so don't be like a narrow mind bigot your culture represents, join us, the noble enlighten one's, help exalt our throne above all! - sums up the basic premise of their framework..
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[mike153]

There's nothing Christian about the IB program, it's a bunch of moral relativism designed to co-opt your children into a UN collectivist mindset and made to feel inadequate about their own country and culture. They soon become little activists for all the political issues that adults struggle with on a daily basis, but instead have had their minds made up for them by the IB curriculum and it's incessant daily conditioning from their teachers.

Forget about science or maths, gay marriage and communism are the term projects in PYP. IB is a clever cloak of indoctrination, designed by the people who setup the UNESCO organization, mainly communist, atheistic psychologists who wanted to destroy all religions and national sovereignty to rule by UN global communism.

Parents of children in PYP schools have no idea what their children are learning from week to week, the constructivist teaching method is used as an excuse for not having a real syllabus, it's a very secretive curriculum that hides social indoctrination in feel good concepts and jargon of world peace and harmony, just like communism did in Russia. Get your children out of IB while you can and give them a proper education!

This is what your children get to study in their final and crowning year of elementary PYP.
http://kidblog.org/PYPExhibition2014/

Marriage Equality Issues
Fair Trade
Racism in Sport
Animal Cruelty
Issues with War Refugees
Womens Rights
Dangerous Diseases
Body Image
Racism and Refugees
Border Patrol
Extreme Poverty
Mental Health issues
Poverty and Homelessness
Discrimination in Sports
Human Rights

[Kurieuo]

Yes, we've since enrolled our children in a different school.
I'm putting together a website on it, that I'll hopefully get to finishing off by mid-year.
People just don't understand so the website is aimed at concerned Christian parents -- to help them understand.
As well as the general responses a Christian school who takes it up often gives to questioning parents.

[miya]

Yes, we've since enrolled our children in a different school.
I'm putting together a website on it, that I'll hopefully get to finishing off by mid-year.
People just don't understand so the website is aimed at concerned Christian parents -- to help them understand.
As well as the general responses a Christian school who takes it up often gives to questioning parents.

Any news when this website will be ready? More people need to be aware of this plague on society called IB.
My year 5 child spends all day and each day at school discussing gay marriage, sharing the planet and how bad we are here in the west for not giving our wealth to Africa, dialectic discussion and anything other than academic work. This IB really is a waste of time and worse than that it brainwashed young children with UN values. IB needs to be stopped.

[Kurieuo]

Thanks for the prompting.

There are many websites out there already, but I will re-look into wrapping up what I had.

Really it was a website aimed at other parents about why we left the school. Many just don't get it or understand.
But then, I needed to focus on other things. And got distracted raising four kids, business and the like.
We moved our kids to a school that "got it". Call me a pessimist but I couldn't see much change happening at my last school and didn't want my kids involved anymore.

BUT, I will make a concerted effort to get it up.
For other parents who don't want to be made out as fundamentalist loonies by school heads implementing it, I hope they will just be able to point others to it and go "this is exactly the way I feel and why I believe it is wrong" (especially for private schools that are Christian, or even Jewish, Muslim or anything other than secular humanist).

Anyway, will see what I have. If interested, I can share with you content privately as I get it done.