Is Jesus the only way?

[Storyteller]

Forgive me Philip, I don`t get which link will help me study the Scripture?

[Philip]

Forgive me Philip, I don`t get which link will help me study the Scripture?

Go to the page I linked and then scroll down to my post on that page. Then go about halfway or so through my post and you will see it: "Here's a good method for interpreting and applying Scripture:"

Let me know if you don't see what I'm referring to.

Thanks.

[PaulSacramento]

I tend to ask people that feel it wrong or uncomfortable to say that Jesus is the ONLY way, WHY they feel that way.
I mean, the message of Jesus is a beautiful one, one of love and forgiveness and grace so why would anyone NOT want that to be the only way?

Typically their answer is that they feel that people that are good people and to good things most of the time, should't be penalized simply because they don't believe in Jesus.

But here is the thing, nowhere doe sit say that those that are good and don't believe in Jesus will not be saved per say, the only real place where this issue is addressed explicitly is, IMO, John 5, where Jesus contrasts what will happen to those that believe ( no judgment and salvation) to those that don't ( Judgment based on whether they did good or bad).

Only those that REJECT Christ are condemned and I submit that those people are the ones that KNOW the Gospel, KNOW it to be true and STILL reject it.

[Storyteller]

Ah! Got it now!

Yes, I think that will be very helpful, thanks Philip

I have just found a NIV version of the New Testament and Psalms. Guess what I`m going to be reading?

I posted this on my journey thread so forgive me for repeating myself but I want to sit and read it with pen and paper at my side and write down any thoughts and questions I may have then maybe start a thread on it? Or has that already been done?

I appreciate that for a lot of posters on here it will be covering old ground but I`d find it really helpful, I think, to discuss it on here.

[Storyteller]

I tend to ask people that feel it wrong or uncomfortable to say that Jesus is the ONLY way, WHY they feel that way.
I mean, the message of Jesus is a beautiful one, one of love and forgiveness and grace so why would anyone NOT want that to be the only way?

Typically their answer is that they feel that people that are good people and to good things most of the time, should't be penalized simply because they don't believe in Jesus.

But here is the thing, nowhere doe sit say that those that are good and don't believe in Jesus will not be saved per say, the only real place where this issue is addressed explicitly is, IMO, John 5, where Jesus contrasts what will happen to those that believe ( no judgment and salvation) to those that don't ( Judgment based on whether they did good or bad).

Only those that REJECT Christ are condemned and I submit that those people are the ones that KNOW the Gospel, KNOW it to be true and STILL reject it.

Well said!

See, this is what I believe too. Some people may want to believe but for whatever reason they can`t. Isn`t God about forgiveness? What better example than forgiving someone who hasn`t believed? Maybe some people will only believe once they are in the presence of God? That is a lot different to knowing and rejecting. Well, it is to me anyway.

[PaulSacramento]

I tend to ask people that feel it wrong or uncomfortable to say that Jesus is the ONLY way, WHY they feel that way.
I mean, the message of Jesus is a beautiful one, one of love and forgiveness and grace so why would anyone NOT want that to be the only way?

Typically their answer is that they feel that people that are good people and to good things most of the time, should't be penalized simply because they don't believe in Jesus.

But here is the thing, nowhere doe sit say that those that are good and don't believe in Jesus will not be saved per say, the only real place where this issue is addressed explicitly is, IMO, John 5, where Jesus contrasts what will happen to those that believe ( no judgment and salvation) to those that don't ( Judgment based on whether they did good or bad).

Only those that REJECT Christ are condemned and I submit that those people are the ones that KNOW the Gospel, KNOW it to be true and STILL reject it.

Well said!

See, this is what I believe too. Some people may want to believe but for whatever reason they can`t. Isn`t God about forgiveness? What better example than forgiving someone who hasn`t believed? Maybe some people will only believe once they are in the presence of God? That is a lot different to knowing and rejecting. Well, it is to me anyway.

I don't think that God well condemn ANYONE that He KNOWS isn't a follower of Christ because they don't truly understand what it means.
Some people's only exposure to Christ is by followers that are, well, less than Christ like.
Some people are only exposed to a false or incorrect Gospel and reject THAT, not the true gospel and the true Christ.
I know some like that.
I will never be the person that says that someone is NOT saved because they don't believe in Christ until I know WHICH Christ they don't believe in, know what I mean?

That said, I think ( unfortunately) that the majority that reject Christ do so because they simply do NOT want to KNOW Him and do NOT want the "baggage" that goes with Him (repentance for example).

[Storyteller]

Absolutely agree with you Paul. If I had died at any point up to now, or even now come to think of it, I don't think He would have turned away from me, He knows I was looking for Him. I just couldn't find Him.

Like you said in that post that got to me, He KNOWS what is in our hearts. If that is a genuine desire for Christ, why would He turn away? That goes against everything that God is.

[Philip]

We've got to careful with any absolutes about those without the Gospel - EITHER way. In Romans, the Apostle Paul clearly spoke of heathen peoples who stand condemned. who did not have the Gospel - in fact, he spoke of those living BEFORE the Gospel existed. And so why were the people Paul says were condemned lost? It's because they had already rejected what of God they DID know, NOT because of what they didn't know - and Paul says THAT is enough! Let's be clear, one does NOT need to know of the Jesus part of our Trinitarian God or about the sacrifice and Resurrection of Christ to nonetheless reject God entirely. If they so much as reject what of God they DO know - and the people Paul describes had only basic understandings that God existed, provided for them, etc - and yet they wanted nothing to do with God. It's very interesting that in this portion of Scripture, any talk of rejecting or not knowing Jesus, as for those so condemned, is not even mentioned. So, ignorance of JESUS is no excuse, and in fact the words Paul uses: "So they are without excuse."

Now, all that said, there may well be some nuances to how God deals with those who have never heard of Jesus, but on this Scripture is basically silent. So, let's be careful in what we assert we can say for certain. And what we CAN say for certain is only contained within Scripture. We do know that God will be more than fair and just, and that His heart is for those who WILL respond and are WILLING to listen to come into His salvation. It's certainly not that God wants to handicap people from obtaining the Kingdom. There are less and less people in this world who have NEVER heard of Jesus or who could know more IF they wanted to, as God is unlimited in how He might reach them. And just about anyone those reading this forum will ever come into contact with have most likely at least heard the basics, and that Christians worship Jesus as a God who they say died, was Resurrected, and is coming again.

[Storyteller]

A response from the heart Philip,

If you reject God you cannot be saved. Free will. We decide. For those that didn't know about Jesus could still, and did reject God.

I believed in God long before I accepted Jesus. I know I am saved now, because of Jesus. I was always saved. He knows, has always known what is in my heart.

He has ben more than fair and just with me, I have responded.

I knew nothing of Jesus, not really, yet I am still saved.

Jesus was God, is God, and the Holy Spirit.

It stil scares me.

[Philip]

In not trying to overstep what Scripture teaches us in the New Testament, we need to remember what is actually said: Romans 10: "14 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 15 And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"

Let's remember that we have NO example in the New Testament of anyone becoming saved apart from first hearing the Gospel and then affirming it, through belief and faith.

Now, in the immediate context before the verses above, Paul states first how people are saved: "9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart othat God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. 11 For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. 13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Note the Roman Centurion Cornelius in Acts 10. This was clearly a man seeking God. He did not know the Gospel, but he tried his best to honor God in what he did know and believe. And so God honored Cornelius for that. God sent an angel in a vision to instruct Cornelius to send for Peter. All of his sincere seeking to honor God and related actions had not YET saved him. Cornelius even first fell at Peter's feet in worship. But it was not UNTIL he heard Peter preach the Gospel that "the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word." In Acts 11, Peter relates what happened, as he previously didn't even realize Gentiles could receive salvation. Make no mistake that what Peter was referring to concerning those with Cornelius during his preaching: "... then God gave the same gift to them as he gave to us when we believed in the Lord Jesus Christ."

Now, does not the journey to one's salvation include when one is seeking, being drawn, gradually growing in thirst for knowledge about God? Certainly! But the above and the rest of the NT seems to indicate that people must FIRST hear the Gospel message and then respond in their hearts, minds and words to confess Christ, in response. I just wouldn't go any further than that, nor any less. Cornelius clearly was not saved prior to hearing and responding to the Gospel, despite his desire to know God and to honor Him, at least in what he DID know about God, even though it was incomplete. Scripture teaches there is a moment of salvation and that it is after one hears the message. If there is more than this, Scripture does not make it clear. And we shouldn't try to either. Unfortunately, many Christians do (not aimed at anyone here).

[Storyteller]

I just believe in God, and Christ. I have so much to learn and that's the fun part.

I don't have all the answers, I never will, I am not God.

I cannot quote Scripture but I do know the truth. Jesus saved me. I love God.

That's all I need to know, the rest, is details. And the devil is in the detail.

[crochet1949]

It's becoming less and less popular to accept God's Word as The authority. And God's Word tells us that Jesus Christ is God's Son -- and He is the Way, the Truth and the Life and no man comes to the Father but by Him. There are belief systems that say otherwise. So --is God's Word going to be our Authority -- then we need to be willing to stand on That and not waiver.

[Christian2]

Let's look at Acts 10.

Acts 10:

10 There was a man in Caesarea named Cornelius, a centurion of what was called the Italian Regiment. 2 He was a devout man and feared God along with his whole household. He did many charitable deeds for the Jewish people and always prayed to God.

34 Then Peter began to speak: “Now I really understand that God doesn’t show favoritism, 35 but in every nation the person who fears Him and does righteousness is acceptable to Him.

36 He sent the message to the Israelites, proclaiming the good news of peace through Jesus Christ—He is Lord of all. 37 You know the events[g] that took place throughout Judea, beginning from Galilee after the baptism that John preached: 38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how He went about doing good and healing all who were under the tyranny of the Devil, because God was with Him. 39 We ourselves are witnesses of everything He did in both the Judean country and in Jerusalem, yet they killed Him by hanging Him on a tree. 40 God raised up this man on the third day and permitted Him to be seen, 41 not by all the people, but by us, witnesses appointed beforehand by God, who ate and drank with Him after He rose from the dead. 42 He commanded us to preach to the people and to solemnly testify that He is the One appointed by God to be the Judge of the living and the dead. 43 All the prophets testify about Him that through His name everyone who believes in Him will receive forgiveness of sins.”

44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came down on all those who heard the message. 45 The circumcised believers[h] who had come with Peter were astounded because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.

It seems that Cornelius was doing just fine before hearing the Gospel, but he received the Holy Spirit and was baptised when he heard and believed the Gospel.

Doesn't it appear that he needed the Gospel and Jesus Christ because that really is the only way?

[Katabole]

It seems that Cornelius was doing just fine before hearing the Gospel, but he received the Holy Spirit and was baptised when he heard and believed the Gospel.

Doesn't it appear that he needed the Gospel and Jesus Christ because that really is the only way?

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Yes, you are correct. Romans 1 and John 3 claim that people know God because God has given evidence of Himself through creation and that they are without excuse and are condemned. Condemned however does not mean judged and sentenced. The judging and sentencing happens only after the Day of the Lord in Rev 20. Romans 10:17 claims faith comes from hearing and that comes from the Word of God or the Bible. You cannot hear the Gospel if you are not taught it. You cannot understand the Gospel if you do not listen to it. Cornelius knew God and had good works but did not know the Gospel. He did not know Jesus. He is a good example for Romans 1 and John 3. The only way you can be taught the Gospel is to listen to it through hearing and by hearing it, understand. And the only way you can understand is if there are teachers who teach it with understanding and by teaching it, then the person listening and hearing will gain faith and receive the Holy Spirit. Look how the Eunuch responded in Acts:

Acts 8:30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?

Acts 8:31 31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.

I have different views on eschatology than traditionalist views and I believe the vast majority of those who have lived and died will be taught during the Day of the Lord by Christ and the priests of God in Rev 20 and that is how they will hear the Gospel. A priest of God is a person who teaches the Gospel because they will be like Christ at that time and as Christ said:

John 13:13 You call me Teacher and Lord: and you say well; for so I am.

Isaiah 54:13 And all your children shall be taught by the LORD; and great shall be the peace of thy children.

John 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

The word "all" here in this verse is:

Strong's concordance # 3956

pas

including all the forms of declension; apparently a primary word; all, any, every, the whole:--all (manner of, means), any (one), + ever, every (one, way), as many as, whatsoever, whole, whosoever.

All is without exception or distinction in this verse.

If hearing the Gospel was not important, Peter would not have been sent to Cornelius by the Spirit and evangelizing would be in vain.

I would ask,"Please, would you tell me all the things Jesus did without quoting the Gospel? Please, would you tell me all the things Jesus said without quoting the Gospel? That would be an exercise in futility because though they may know God, only through the Gospel will a person know who and what Jesus Christ said and did. IMHO

[Christian2]

It seems that Cornelius was doing just fine before hearing the Gospel, but he received the Holy Spirit and was baptised when he heard and believed the Gospel.

Doesn't it appear that he needed the Gospel and Jesus Christ because that really is the only way?

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Yes, you are correct. Romans 1 and John 3 claim that people know God because God has given evidence of Himself through creation and that they are without excuse and are condemned. Condemned however does not mean judged and sentenced. The judging and sentencing happens only after the Day of the Lord in Rev 20. Romans 10:17 claims faith comes from hearing and that comes from the Word of God or the Bible. You cannot hear the Gospel if you are not taught it. You cannot understand the Gospel if you do not listen to it. Cornelius knew God and had good works but did not know the Gospel. He did not know Jesus. He is a good example for Romans 1 and John 3. The only way you can be taught the Gospel is to listen to it through hearing and by hearing it, understand. And the only way you can understand is if there are teachers who teach it with understanding and by teaching it, then the person listening and hearing will gain faith and receive the Holy Spirit. Look how the Eunuch responded in Acts:

Acts 8:30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?

Acts 8:31 31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.

I have different views on eschatology than traditionalist views and I believe the vast majority of those who have lived and died will be taught during the Day of the Lord by Christ and the priests of God in Rev 20 and that is how they will hear the Gospel. A priest of God is a person who teaches the Gospel because they will be like Christ at that time and as Christ said:

John 13:13 You call me Teacher and Lord: and you say well; for so I am.

Isaiah 54:13 And all your children shall be taught by the LORD; and great shall be the peace of thy children.

John 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

The word "all" here in this verse is:

Strong's concordance # 3956

pas

including all the forms of declension; apparently a primary word; all, any, every, the whole:--all (manner of, means), any (one), + ever, every (one, way), as many as, whatsoever, whole, whosoever.

All is without exception or distinction in this verse.

If hearing the Gospel was not important, Peter would not have been sent to Cornelius by the Spirit and evangelizing would be in vain.

I would ask,"Please, would you tell me all the things Jesus did without quoting the Gospel? Please, would you tell me all the things Jesus said without quoting the Gospel? That would be an exercise in futility because though they may know God, only through the Gospel will a person know who and what Jesus Christ said and did. IMHO

Thank you for your reply. I appreciate your thoughts.