Pacifism and civil disobedience ...

[christianwarrior]

There are some Christians who believe that to support any military action or police action (depending how far they take it) would be immoral.

Here is the Scriptures that Christian pacifists use:
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect. (Matthew 5:38-48)
Jesus is telling us to love our enemy and not seek revenge on them. However it does not appear that this passage is talking about self-defense when our lives or the lives of other people are in danger. A slap on the cheek is an insult to our dignity but it is not life-threatening. http://www.gotquestions.org/turn-other-cheek.html
However even if it did mean that we should not protect ourselves against danger; it would still be a mistake to take a passage that is talking about how we should treat our neighbors and apply to how nation-states should deal with hostile forces.

Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. (Romans 13:1-4)

Romans 12 talks about how we as Christians we should present ourselves as living sacrifices and about how we should not repay evil with evil because the vengeance is the Lord's. Romans 13 begins with one of the instruments that God has appointed to deal with evil doers and that is civil government. The rulers have the power of the sword to protect its citizens from evil-doers. Every legitimate authority comes from God. The rulers of nations are ministers of God and have been appointed to protect its people from agents of evil. When rulers do not protect their people from hostile forces that are armed and dangerous then they are failing in their God-given purpose. http://christiananswers.net/q-faith/fc- ... tives.html There is no Scriptural basis to oppose military forces that are engaged in a just war. Military forces engaged in a just war would be engaging in the defense of innocent non-combatants (preventing a genocide/Holocaust, protecting citizens from terrorism, etc.). The cause must be just (cannot be started to gain resources that another country has). A just war would be lawfully declared (formal declaration of war). A just war would be the final resort when negotiations or other viable alternatives have failed. The military should discern properly between hostile combatants and non-combatants (no terrorism). The usage of violence must be limited to that which is necessary for hostilities to cease (collateral damage should minimalized). It must be proportional (save more lives than it destroys), if more innocent people die from the war than would have suffered if there was inaction then it is not proportional.

If our military is conducting a war for an unjust cause or is conducting a war unjustly then we should oppose it. However being against unjust wars is different than being against military usage because of unprincipled pacifism. Christian pacifism denies our right to defend life and property (Exodus 22:1-4). Even if Jesus was teaching that we, as private individuals, have no right to defend ourselves from violence, Christian pacifism would still be a missapplication of Scriptures. Christian pacifism conflates our role as ambassadors of Christ and how we should treat our neighbors with how nation-states should deal with hostile armies.

Hasn't that passage in Romans 13 been used to justify evil rulers?

Yes, it has. In Nazi Germany, the majority of churches applied Romans 13 to condemn those who resisted Adolf Hitler. However this is a clear misapplication of the passage. Paul ,who wrote Romans 13, was beaten several times, spent several years in jail, and was eventually executed by Nero for violating government rules restricting preaching the Gospel.

Then the captain went with the officers and brought them without violence, for they feared the people, lest they should be stoned.And when they had brought them, they set them before the council. And the high priest asked them, saying, “Did we not strictly command you not to teach in this name? And look, you have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this Man’s blood on us!” But Peter and the other apostles answered and said: “We ought to obey God rather than men. Acts 5:26-29

There is no authority apart from God, governing authorities get their authority from God. If a governing authority bearing the sword in an evil way or is commanding citizens to disobey a commandment of God, it loses its authority. We are under no obligation to follow those laws or decrees (Daniel 3, Exodus 1:15-19, etc.). In those cases we have a moral obligation to oppose the governing authority like the White Rose Movement in Germany https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZJXLZdnhCI , the courageous few churches in South African who defied the apartheid laws, and the churches who during the Civil Rights Era organized resistance to Jim Crow laws. Over half of the Christians in China attend illegal house churches rather than go to churches that are government approved. Here is Chuck Baldwin's article on proper civil disobedience: http://www.newswithviews.com/baldwin/baldwin389.htm

However opposing government actions that are evil is not the same as opposing government actions that are legitimate but involve the usage of force because of misunderstanding Biblical passages on loving your neighbor.

[B. W.]

Eccl 3:1-8 answers this:

Eccl 3:1 To everything there is a season, A time for every purpose under heaven:
Eccl 3:2 A time to be born, And a time to die; A time to plant, And a time to pluck what is planted;
Eccl 3:3 A time to kill, And a time to heal; A time to break down, And a time to build up;
Eccl 3:4 A time to weep, And a time to laugh; A time to mourn, And a time to dance;
Eccl 3:5 A time to cast away stones, And a time to gather stones; A time to embrace, And a time to refrain from embracing;
Eccl 3:6 A time to gain, And a time to lose; A time to keep, And a time to throw away;
Eccl 3:7 A time to tear, And a time to sew; A time to keep silence, And a time to speak;
Eccl 3:8 A time to love, And a time to hate; A time of war, And a time of peace. NKJV

It takes wisdom to discern the times. Jesus understood the times...

Luke 22:35, 36, And He said to them, "When I sent you without money bag, knapsack, and sandals, did you lack anything?" So they said, "Nothing." 36 Then He said to them, "But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one. NKJV

This is one of those big grey areas where the devil would love Christians to remain as justified passive doormats for the enemy to wipe their collective feet on. He the devil, would use the, love your enemies and do them good scriptures to keep one not defending the weak, widow, orphans, those being down trodden. Have you send ISIS a love offering too. There is a certain time one is to turn the other check and a time not to turn. There is a time to love your enemies and a time not too. There is a time for passve resistance and a time not for passive resistance.

It is important to know the Lord Jesus Christ and find out what time it is and what action one is to take. Ancient Israel had a standing army and likewise there are times of war when God uses human means to enact his vengeance upon the most evil.

Discern the times.
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[Furstentum Liechtenstein]

I'm wondering why anyone would want to mix Thoreau and the Bible???

Talk about perverted syncretism!

FL

[Danieltwotwenty]

Eccl 3:1-8 answers this:

Eccl 3:1 To everything there is a season, A time for every purpose under heaven:
Eccl 3:2 A time to be born, And a time to die; A time to plant, And a time to pluck what is planted;
Eccl 3:3 A time to kill, And a time to heal; A time to break down, And a time to build up;
Eccl 3:4 A time to weep, And a time to laugh; A time to mourn, And a time to dance;
Eccl 3:5 A time to cast away stones, And a time to gather stones; A time to embrace, And a time to refrain from embracing;
Eccl 3:6 A time to gain, And a time to lose; A time to keep, And a time to throw away;
Eccl 3:7 A time to tear, And a time to sew; A time to keep silence, And a time to speak;
Eccl 3:8 A time to love, And a time to hate; A time of war, And a time of peace. NKJV

It takes wisdom to discern the times. Jesus understood the times...

Luke 22:35, 36, And He said to them, "When I sent you without money bag, knapsack, and sandals, did you lack anything?" So they said, "Nothing." 36 Then He said to them, "But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one. NKJV

This is one of those big grey areas where the devil would love Christians to remain as justified passive doormats for the enemy to wipe their collective feet on. He the devil, would use the, love your enemies and do them good scriptures to keep one not defending the weak, widow, orphans, those being down trodden. Have you send ISIS a love offering too. There is a certain time one is to turn the other check and a time not to turn. There is a time to love your enemies and a time not too. There is a time for passve resistance and a time not for passive resistance.

It is important to know the Lord Jesus Christ and find out what time it is and what action one is to take. Ancient Israel had a standing army and likewise there are times of war when God uses human means to enact his vengeance upon the most evil.

Discern the times.
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So all those Christian martyrs were really following the devil. All those poor people who took a stand against violence in the face of death, were just cowards following satans lies?

You have one passage where Jesus says to buy a sword, that does not mean he intends for you to use it, in fact he tells Peter to put his sword away because if he lives by the sword he shall surely die from it.

You Americans and your war warmongering, it's quite horrifying and sickening.

You can keep your guns and your violence, the only one who has been fooled by satan is the one who believes violence will triumph.