Anti-Semiticism in France

[Kurieuo]

French Prime Minister Manuel Valls on the “intolerable rise of anti-Semitism in France.

[Furstentum Liechtenstein]

Impressive speech...I doubt that you speak French, Kurieuo, so it is to your credit that you took the time to read the subtitles.

Anti-semitism and its polite cousin anti-zionism*, are growing. Things should only get worse, especially as more and more nominal Christians join the anti-semite camp in an attempt to placate Muslim anger.

FL

*A German judge declared three weeks ago that anti-zionism is anti-semitism. I knew that, Jews know that. Now you - the reader - know. Are you guilty?

[Danieltwotwenty]

Impressive speech...I doubt that you speak French, Kurieuo, so it is to your credit that you took the time to read the subtitles.

Anti-semitism and its polite cousin anti-zionism*, are growing. Things should only get worse, especially as more and more nominal Christians join the anti-semite camp in an attempt to placate Muslim anger.

FL

*A German judge declared three weeks ago that anti-zionism is anti-semitism. I knew that, Jews know that. Now you - the reader - know. Are you guilty?

So I am a nominal Christian because I am anti-Zionist.

Maybe you are the nominal Christian because you support oppression and tyranny.

I see your inferiority complex is still in full swing, I hope you get over it some day FL, if anything I feel pity for you.

[Furstentum Liechtenstein]

So I am a nominal Christian because I am anti-Zionist. Maybe you are the nominal Christian because you support oppression and tyranny.I see your inferiority complex is still in full swing, I hope you get over it some day FL, if anything I feel pity for you.

Yes, as an anti-zionist, you are an anti-semite. I've told you this before, so don't act like it's news to you. Mainstream denominations within Christianity are in the same boat, so you are in good a sizeable company. As a general rule, any denomination which adheres to Replacement Theology is anti-semitic.

FL

[Kurieuo]

Impressive speech...I doubt that you speak French, Kurieuo, so it is to your credit that you took the time to read the subtitles.

Anti-semitism and its polite cousin anti-zionism*, are growing. Things should only get worse, especially as more and more nominal Christians join the anti-semite camp in an attempt to placate Muslim anger.

FL

*A German judge declared three weeks ago that anti-zionism is anti-semitism. I knew that, Jews know that. Now you - the reader - know. Are you guilty?

Judaism and Zionism ought to be split.

Orthodox Jews would have it and WWII would have it too.
Zionists in the eyes of many rabbis are considered an insult to Judaism.
Just take a read of http://www.truetorahjews.org/issues/paris and some of the articles on that site.

My father-in-law who I sadly never got to meet was in Poland as a boy in WWII.
As a Jewish person, he escaped via Russia and eventually settled in Australia.
I've spoken to my mother-in-law who has told me a bit... he was of the mind that you never trust a Polish person.
Why? Because they turned on each other. Zionists largely sold out and made deals and lead them onto the trains that went straight to the camps.
There was an opportunity to deport Jews from Europe if expenses were paid. The other alternative were the death camps.
Zionists held out to bargain over getting their own country at the expense of displacing Palestinians.

Why are orthodox Jews opposed? Indeed even call Zionism "the work of Satan."
Because God was to give them their home land back and then there would be a time of peace.
In their mind, the Jewish people were never meant to take back the land by force. The conflicts that are going on are evidence of that.
Yet, the world wanted a solution to the Jewry problem. And wealthy Zionists wanted to broker a deal for themselves...
And while all that went on, and deals were knocked back, Nazis kept killing off the Jews in death camps.
It's quite sick to think about.
(THE ROLE OF ZIONISM IN THE HOLOCAUST)

[Danieltwotwenty]

So I am a nominal Christian because I am anti-Zionist. Maybe you are the nominal Christian because you support oppression and tyranny.I see your inferiority complex is still in full swing, I hope you get over it some day FL, if anything I feel pity for you.

Yes, as an anti-zionist, you are an anti-semite. I've told you this before, so don't act like it's news to you. Mainstream denominations within Christianity are in the same boat, so you are in good a sizeable company. As a general rule, any denomination which adheres to Replacement Theology is anti-semitic.

FL

Aniti-Zionism is not anti-Semetism, considering I am Jewish and a lot of my family live in Israel it is just stupidity to say I am anti-Semetic. What am I, anti-self...... It beyond ridicules.

What you are promoting is a works based salvation, you are saying unless you are a Zionist you cannot be a Christian, good luck with that FL. By your own measure you will be judged, I hope all your beliefs are 100% correct.

[Furstentum Liechtenstein]

Aniti-Zionism is not anti-Semetism, considering I am Jewish and a lot of my family live in Israel it is just stupidity to say I am anti-Semetic. What am I, anti-self...... It beyond ridicules.

You are right: a Jew who is an anti-zionist is not an anti-semite. He is just a fool. There are many such fools in Israel: the Hassidim and the ultra-left liberals come spontaneously to mind. In the USA, a famous fool is George Soros. You're in good company, again!

What you are promoting is a works based salvation, you are saying unless you are a Zionist you cannot be a Christian, good luck with that FL. By your own measure you will be judged, I hope all your beliefs are 100% correct.

I never said anything of the sort. You make no sense, as usual.

Anyway, the German judge who said that anti-zionism is equivalent to anti-semitism is Judge Gauri Sastry. Die Welt quoted Judge Sastry as saying that "Zionist" is anti-semite code for Jew; she presided over the trial of a Turkish-born German who incited hatred of Zionists during a pro-Gaza rally.

FL

[Danieltwotwenty]

The only fool here is you FL and I am not going to argue with you, I am not going to stoop to your level.

Cheers

[Furstentum Liechtenstein]

(THE ROLE OF ZIONISM IN THE HOLOCAUST)

That Jews worked with the Nazis to kill other Jews is true. However, this is irrelevent here, and many of us may have done the same to save our hides... Also, Orthodox Jews are by and large, Zionists. You may be mistaking Orthodox for Lubavichers or Hassidim; these are anti-zionist, believing that only Messiah can establish the nation of Israel on earth. Some of the more liberal elements among Reform Jews are also anti-zionist. Reform, Conservative & Orthodox Jews look like us, the others are legalistic and dress in black only.

Is there a strong current of anti-zionism in Oz?

FL

[Furstentum Liechtenstein]

(THE ROLE OF ZIONISM IN THE HOLOCAUST)

That Jews worked with the Nazis to kill other Jews is true. However, this is irrelevent here, and many of us may have done the same to save our hides... Also, Orthodox Jews are by and large, Zionists. You may be mistaking Orthodox for Lubavichers or Hassidim; these are anti-zionist, believing that only Messiah can establish the nation of Israel on earth. Some of the more liberal elements among Reform Jews are also anti-zionist. Reform, Conservative & Orthodox Jews look like us, the others are highly legalistic and dress in black only.

Is there a strong current of anti-zionism in Oz?

FL

[Kurieuo]

(THE ROLE OF ZIONISM IN THE HOLOCAUST)

That Jews worked with the Nazis to kill other Jews is true. However, this is irrelevent here, and many of us may have done the same to save our hides... Also, Orthodox Jews are by and large, Zionists. You may be mistaking Orthodox for Lubavichers or Hassidim; these are anti-zionist, believing that only Messiah can establish the nation of Israel on earth. Some of the more liberal elements among Reform Jews are also anti-zionist. Reform, Conservative & Orthodox Jews look like us, the others are legalistic and dress in black only.

Is there a strong current of anti-zionism in Oz?

FL

You do make some points I'd have to look into.

There are sympathies for Palestinian people in Australia, but perhaps equally as much support for Israel.
I don't take sides, but try to understand both sides.

For me Israel really were poor in bombing UN refuge buildings/schools. That took the cake.
I was accepting of them defending themselves as a nation, but what they did was just their own form of reverse terrorism at the expense of innocent lives.
Even if there were a couple of militants, they let them win by killing children -- especially when Israel was well aware of the complex being a UN refuge.

Israel should protect themselves, but if that means causing much pain and suffering to innocents than while I understand, I'm not for that.
That isn't what Christ would want them to do. Love your neighbour as yourself. If they strike you in the cheek turn the other.
But, Israel aren't Christian. They are barely even Jewish today.

As for Jews turning on Jews... saving their hides had nothing to do with the main point I was trying to highlight:

Read "The Millions That Could Have Been Saved" by I.DombIt is an historical fact that in 1941 and again in 1942, the German Gestapo offered all European Jews transit to Spain, if they would relinquish all their property in Germany and Occupied France; on condition that: a) none of the deportees travel from Spain to Palestine; and b) all the deportees be transported from Spain to the USA or British colonies, and there to remain; with entry visas to be arranged by the Jews living there; and c) $1000.00 ransom for each family to be furnished by the Agency, payable upon the arrival of the family at the Spanish border at the rate of 1000 families daily.

The Zionist leaders in Switzerland and Turkey received this offer with the clear understanding that the exclusion of Palestine as a destination for the deportees was based on an agreement between the Gestapo and the Mufti.

The answer of the Zionist leaders was negative, with the following comments: a) ONLY Palestine would be considered as a destination for the deportees. b) The European Jews must accede to suffering and death greater in measure than the other nations, in order that the victorious allies agree to a "Jewish State" at the end of the war. c) No ransom will be paid This response to the Gestapo's offer was made with the full knowledge that the alternative to this offer was the gas chamber. (http://www.truetorahjews.org/lieberman)

Zionists sold out their people. And they stood to gain the most.

Today the situation is difficult.
It's a mess no one has been able to resolve.
Palestinians were displaced when the state of Israel was setup.
Now we have a population that is Israel, who face constant threat and a mass of people without any real home.

No Islamic state will take Palestinians in,
and while Israel has on numerous occasions offered to resettle people (e.g., Gaza strip),
it can't take in all Palestinians because then they'd quickly go into civil disorder as they become Islamicised by those who just went them wiped from the Earth.
What can be done? The West and Europe helped create this mess, and now there is no clear solution and people on both sides are peeved and get revved up.

I don't believe it is all to do with Islam, but also the sensitive history of what has happened.
And children are still children, women are still women... all humanity possess the image of God and are inherently valuable.
While I feel for and can understand both sides, I see no clear solution.

[Danieltwotwenty]

My family posted on face book once and I quote "look how great the nation of Israel is, we even setup hospitals for our enemies". I asked them if innocent women, children and babies are the enemy and they said they are.

I also posted a video of Israeli soldiers tying a young Palestinian child (10-13 years old) to the front of their vehicle for the purpose of using him as a human shield. They thought this was perfectly acceptable, they have dehumanised Palestinians to a point that they are not worthy of living.

Now I am not taking sides either, I think both sides are just as culpable for their evil actions.

I pray for the day when they can work out their differences, but I doubt that will happen soon.

[Furstentum Liechtenstein]

There are sympathies for Palestinian people in Australia, but perhaps equally as much support for Israel

I've never been to Oz but I doubt very much that there is an equal amount of sympathy for Israel as there is for the Palestinians. Third tier countries (Australia, Belgium, Canada to name but three) have seen acts of anti-semitism rise in recent years. Ditto for second tier countries (Germany, UK and , most notably, France). Even the world's only superpower - and staunch friend of Israel - has seen an increase in anti-semitic acts: vandalizing synagogues, knocking over tombstones and the like. Don't believe me! visit the international site of B'nai Brith and see for yourself.

I don't take sides, but try to understand both sides.

If true, that's admirable.

For me Israel really were poor in bombing UN refuge buildings/schools. That took the cake. I was accepting of them defending themselves as a nation, but what they did was just their own form of reverse terrorism at the expense of innocent lives.Even if there were a couple of militants, they let them win by killing children -- especially when Israel was well aware of the complex being a UN refuge.

Soldiers are human and subject to intense emotion. Mistakes happen. War is hell. You may want to hear the story from their side: http://www.friendasoldier.com is a site where you can ask pointed questions directly to an Israeli soldier, and even become efriends.

Also, remember that the government in Gaza is a recognized terrorist entity by most Western nations. That government has repeatedly refused to recognize Israel's right to exist and promotes and rewards terrorist assaults on Israeli territory.

Israel should protect themselves, but if that means causing much pain and suffering to innocents than while I understand, I'm not for that.That isn't what Christ would want them to do. Love your neighbour as yourself. If they strike you in the cheek turn the other.But, Israel aren't Christian. They are barely even Jewish today.

Whatever Israel does will always be criticized. Just accept that. When Israel built the security wall, they were roundly denounced but that wall effectively put an end to almost daily bombings and murders. The natural man hates God and will hate the people God chose to reveal Himself to. "[Israel is] barely even Jewish today'' is a nonsense statement. Israel is Jewish in the same way that the USA is Christian. That is, both states are largely secular but influenced by the faith that saw them come into existence. These two countries have a lot in common, so it isn't surprizing that they are (or were) close diplomatically.

Zionists sold out their people. And they stood to gain the most.

So?! You seem all to willing to blame "Zionists" for a very human failing: stabing your neighbor in the back. WAKE UP! Russians screw other Russians. Latino bosses in the USA exploit Latino migrant workers. My own cleaning lady, a Columbian woman, refuses to work for Columbians because they treat her badly and hold back her pay. That's human nature, Kurieuo! Screw your brother before he screws you.

While I feel for and can understand both sides, I see no clear solution.

There is no human solution. Period. As a Christian, you must know that peace will only come when Messiah returns. While waiting for that event, Israel is good fodder for the media and allows us to blame major world tensions on them.

As for this from Dan220,

I also posted a video of Israeli soldiers tying a young Palestinian child (10-13 years old) to the front of their vehicle for the purpose of using him as a human shield. They thought this was perfectly acceptable, they have dehumanised Palestinians to a point that they are not worthy of living.

Why not go to the friend-a-soldier site I referenced above and ask an Israeli soldier about it? (I doubt you'll do it!)

FL

[Furstentum Liechtenstein]

You do make some points I'd have to look into.

I've looked into them for you. There are 3 main branches of Judaism: Orthodox (22% of world jewry), Conservative (33%), Reform (37%).

The Jews we were talking about, the Orthodox, are further divided into subgroups:

1. Modern Orthodox, who are OK with social interaction with gentiles. I've attended their synagogues. They dress like us and are the largest subgroup.
2. Traditional Orthodox, who also dress like us (but the women dress modestly), and will interact with gentiles in business. Men and women sit apart in synagogues. Men wear kippas in public.
3. Ultra-Orthodox or Hassidim. Interact with more liberal Jews and gentiles in business only. Men dress in black and women dress very modestly. There are subgroups within the Hassidim, each group more strict in their observances than the last. The main subgroups of the Ultra-Orthodox are, the Breslover, the Lubavitcher, the Satmar, and the Vizhnitzer.

FL

[Danieltwotwenty]

Why not go to the friend-a-soldier site I referenced above and ask an Israeli soldier about it? (I doubt you'll do it!)

Why ask a soldier I do not know when I can ask my family who are soldiers?

All of my cousins are in the Israeli army.

Do you find those actions acceptable FL?