You tell me

[Storyteller]

ToE isn`t about what was at the beginning.

We cannot go beyond the beginning.

What was there before the Big Bang? Before evolution? Before it all?

God.

Then if we cant sanctify truth to the theory of everything then why try to understand it by excepting only a theory and base our advancements in what we can prove to be true. When you say its not about understanding what came before ToE Well what is a theory that ever* could be explained without first always existing*. The answer to all the theories is dependent upon what was or is beyond the brink of what we simply cant understand. Can you comprehend death? No because you must first be prison to it, but what we are told through the bible is death is like a dreamless sleep or a void. We only know what we are a product of. So in this life mans theory mean nothing more then death being something we will never know fully until we pass the brink.

When I talk about ToE I am referring to the theory of evolution, not the theory of everything. Theory of everything is a different matter.

We try and understand it by putting forward a theory, trying to find evidence to back it up and looking at things. There is some evidence for ToE. I`m still undecided about it really but at this stage I wouldn`t totally discount it. It is possible for the ToE to be true yet still complement God. It`s also possible that it`s not true. I don`t know enough yet and I haven`t looked into or understood the other options yet.

I disagree that all theories are dependant on what`s beyond we know. We used to think the earth was flat.

Death is just another step in life, with or without God.

[Jac3510]

YH,

Welcome to the board. To jump right in here, I'm going to agree with all of those who are telling you that evolution and theism are not incompatible. And even if they were (again, I insist they are not), people still hold to self-contradictory beliefs all the time. So at best you should modify your position to say, "You cannot consistently belief in both evolution and God." Again, that statement would still be wrong, but at least it is defensible.

I want you to know that I hold an even stricter position that you regarding creationism. I'm YEC. I think the six days were literal, normal days. So I'm not making my claim here out of a desire to fit an evolutionary model into biblical creationism. But even in my position, I wouldn't make the absurd claim you are.

In fact, I would go further than even some of the other posters on this board. Most will tell you that even if they don't accept theistic evolution, they would permit evolution (as far as an idea goes, not that they affirm it) so long as God is guiding the process. But I don't think that even THAT is necessary. You can have evolution as a completely unguided process and still believe in God. You can go further still. You can reject the claim that God finely tuned the universe, the laws of physics, and even life itself. You can deny the claim that the evolution of the universe--cosmological, chemical, and biological--is either directed or that it is unfolding according some design, preordained plan, and you can still affirm that God exists. And the God you can affirm would not be some deistic, uninterested God. You could still affirm the biblical God of creation.

The only ideas that are absolutely incompatible are philosophical naturalism and theism. That is to say, these two statements cannot be reconciled:

1. The evolution of the universe and all that is in it, including life--so cosmological, chemical, and biological evolution--admits no possibility of and in fact denies the possibility of the existence of God;
2. God exists

Those obviously can't be reconciled, but almost no one except a few ridiculous, sophomoric militant anti-theists claim 1. And you shouldn't waste your time with those sorts of people anyway. They are lazy thinkers who lack the intellectual honesty and quite possibly the intellectual capacity to discuss the matter, anyway.

So bottom line, I hope you reconsider your position on what one can or cannot affirm while holding to belief in God. We need to be very careful when making such claims, because while you certainly are not intending to do so, making claims such as that is actually a slight against fellow brothers and sisters in Christ--some on this very board--who do hold to such positions. And if you must slight someone, at least make sure it really has to be said (for who says all truths must be spoken?) and that your position is defensible. As it stands now, I don't think your statement passes either test.

But that's why you join a board such as this . . . iron sharpens iron, and the more time you spend here, the better you will get, and hopefully the better we will get from our interactions with you!

God bles

[Yhwhhallowed]

What is evolution when man has evolved to the be nothing more then the reason hundreds of other life forms are extinct. From birds to land animals to creatures in the sea, man according to biblical concepts were made to cultivate the earth not be the reason the bees are dying off to pollinate the sources that keep all life going. If evolving holds some truth then surely we must be on the verge on another upgrade in the stages of evolution. How can man cultivate what cant be grown due to mans so called progresses in other areas that really have no effect in progress at all. The smarter and more advanced we think we get.

The more we find out just how little we actually know about the effects our technology is doing to our environment. From global warming, green hous gas, radioactive waste, new sickness never seen before until the dawning of the age. We are only destrying the theory of evolution as its been the study for top scientists over the century. Why does cell phone trigger Cancer, why does cars release toxic gases that help thin our ozone layer. The only way I can believe even a small product of evolution is when I see the world come together as one to figure out these huge problems, as we all know it will take everyones involvement not just most.

So tell it to the smoker who throws down his butt or the giant corporations supplying the smoke to millions of addicts world wide. Is it our destiny to make earth unlivable, the world will never fully come together. Due to greed, religious beliefs, addictions. If we die life would flurish but if bees die everyone, everything will die one after another. So once everything is gone and swept away with. Tell me then, what is left to evolve, i thought evolution was to never stop progressing or evolving to the next complexity, not just stop completely then restart possibly. Take a look around you people, it may look like what we made our advancements our evolving and we are getting better, but really everything we make is the next thing destracting or polluting the possibility of life to continue. So go ahead believe God and also believe mans theory's of life. For me you cant believe in both, and it clear now what one is showing more and more truth.