new study on nde's says they are real

[EssentialSacrifice]

It sure sounds a little like a multiverse doesn't it ? In a way but not the materialistic version but God's version

Yeah bips, this was a point of contention in another post on another site some years ago... when the anti religious post came across as , IMO, arrogantly so much more scientifically evolved than we "stuck in your religiosity" types, I had a lot of fun explaining God does not live in this universe, in fact cannot because of inability to occupy the same space as sin... why then there must be another universe He lives in IE: multiverses ...

Of course, I did take the opportunity to rub it in a little (since they were being so "looking down there scientific noses") at me, to let them know this was a tenant of the Christian faith for 2000 years and a known to the Jews for 6000 ... I asked them "where you been guys ? He's been here looking for you all along"

Didn't make many friends that day but honestly I wasn't all that well received in the first place. They didn't think much of my: science will always be trying to catch up to God's planned creation .

[bippy123]

It sure sounds a little like a multiverse doesn't it ? In a way but not the materialistic version but God's version

Yeah bips, this was a point of contention in another post on another site some years ago... when the anti religious post came across as , IMO, arrogantly so much more scientifically evolved than we "stuck in your religiosity" types, I had a lot of fun explaining God does not live in this universe, in fact cannot because of inability to occupy the same space as sin... why then there must be another universe He lives in IE: multiverses ...

Of course, I did take the opportunity to rub it in a little (since they were being so "looking down there scientific noses") at me, to let them know this was a tenant of the Christian faith for 2000 years and a known to the Jews for 6000 ... I asked them "where you been guys ? He's been here looking for you all along"

Didn't make many friends that day but honestly I wasn't all that well received in the first place. They didn't think much of my: science will always be trying to catch up to God's planned creation .

Essential , Christ never promised us a rose garden here on earth. U stood your ground that day and I'm sure the. Lord is very pleased with you. I remember an atheist brought the same contention to Frank Turek and he basically answered them in the same way .

On a side note I was discussing the aware study with an atbeist and I asked him whatbhenthoight about that one nde that happened without a functioning brain.

His response ""it's good but I need to see another 50 to 100 examples like this "
I'm sure the next time he will need another 1000

Just keep moving those goalposts backwards atheists

[EssentialSacrifice]

Truth is bippy, I stood on pretty shaky ground (certainly debatable) as He is... He is... that is His "essence" if you will is separate from His "energies" that can, obviously occupy the same space as sin. God wrestled Jacob, Moses was in His presence at the burning bush, Satan in His presence during the Job story ... there are of course more. The Lord, as a human being can be excused as He took on the physical attributes only to be among us... Christ was sinless, but He endured the sins of the world ... soooo ...

The essence of God (thinking in the lines of Father son and Holy Spirit all in One) can be divided from His universe and is the element that cannot, will not abide sin. All that being said, it comes down to faith and the individual's ability to tolerate certain tenants regarding the "make-up" of God. This is the very reason I believe Mary to be sinless. Her soul created by God specifically for the birth of Christ. God would not, could not be able to exist in an abode where he was encased, nourished and satiated by physical life's requirements to survive in the womb analogous to sin... just couldn't happen. Christ cannot be sinless in the flesh if He came from sinful flesh. His essence is the life blood of our salvation and that essence, the most pure God-like quality of He Who Is requires the perfection He requires of us to gain heaven... His true abode.

Very confusing but, for me, all loose ends tie up very succinctly knowing He is able to do this just as He is able the be simultaneously three in One.

So many of the NDE's tell of the perfection of where they were.. ease of thought, ease of movement ... coming back to this world was like wading through molasses in comparison ... These events are more climatic than just life after death. They are, by definition, the reality of the unknown after death that seems perfect.
Can't wait !

[Storyteller]

Just don`t rush off there ES!

Stick around a little longer, please

Good point about Mary being sinless, btw.

[RickD]

Just don`t rush off there ES!

Stick around a little longer, please

Good point about Mary being sinless, btw.

Annette,

FYI, Mary's sinlessness is a Catholic doctrine. One would have a difficult time coming up with a biblical argument for Mary's sinlessness. It's just not in scripture.

Mary does not have to be sinless for Christ to be sinless.

The bible teaches the miraculous virgin conception of Christ, not the immaculate conception of mary.

[EssentialSacrifice]

Sorry ST, I was taking the dog out and getting breakfast together (she got up way too early today !!!) ... will be here for a while now.

bippy's topics for this site are just the best, aren't they ? He definitely opens more doors to faith more than just the topical reference. This NDE thing is an expose for afterlife in a "physically understandable" way. We can see the afterlife and possibility that here-to-fore were really unmentionable (without people thinking you're crazy)unless you knew someone personally who died and came back and heard and believed their story. With the advent of the internet, we have corroborating evidences of multiple, many instances where this NDE thing has taken place to not only confirm the veracity of the event but also the wonderful spiritual enhancement of those effected, that effect us upon disclosure.

I find it amazing the gifts we are and have been given by God to help prove there is so much more after life on earth and the value of living the Christian way to attain the goal that is perfection in eternity., Perfection in eternity. That is the essence of life, the real reality we are given, the opportunity to have, hold, enjoy, share ... so much to look forward too, so much to live well for here, today, for the reward of tomorrow, which will be our forever, living in the now.

[EssentialSacrifice]

Ok, apparently I lied, gotta go for about an hour. Daughter's car won't start and needs a jump... great start to this day, I'll tell you ...

[Storyteller]

Just don`t rush off there ES!

Stick around a little longer, please

Good point about Mary being sinless, btw.

Annette,

FYI, Mary's sinlessness is a Catholic doctrine. One would have a difficult time coming up with a biblical argument for Mary's sinlessness. It's just not in scripture.

Mary does not have to be sinless for Christ to be sinless.

The bible teaches the miraculous virgin conception of Christ, not the immaculate conception of mary.

Hey Rick

As you know I haven`t read a lot of Scripture so I will take your word for it that Mary`s sinlessness isn`t accounted for anywhere but it makes sense to me. How, if Mary wasn`t sinless, could Christ have been born to Her? For me, and it is a personal thing, Mary is an important part of faith for me. She allows me access to God from a woman`s, and a mother`s point of view.

It was Mary`s yes that allowed all this to happen so I think she is a vital part of my faith.

I believe in God, and that Christ is my Saviour, I have no particular denomination so I am not put off by the fact it is a Catholic doctrine. I have looked into the Catholic faith a little, and I have to say, for me, it strikes a chord.

[Storyteller]

Sorry ST, I was taking the dog out and getting breakfast together (she got up way too early today !!!) ... will be here for a while now.

bippy's topics for this site are just the best, aren't they ? He definitely opens more doors to faith more than just the topical reference. This NDE thing is an expose for afterlife in a "physically understandable" way. We can see the afterlife and possibility that here-to-fore were really unmentionable (without people thinking you're crazy)unless you knew someone personally who died and came back and heard and believed their story. With the advent of the internet, we have corroborating evidences of multiple, many instances where this NDE thing has taken place to not only confirm the veracity of the event but also the wonderful spiritual enhancement of those effected, that effect us upon disclosure.

I find it amazing the gifts we are and have been given by God to help prove there is so much more after life on earth and the value of living the Christian way to attain the goal that is perfection in eternity., Perfection in eternity. That is the essence of life, the real reality we are given, the opportunity to have, hold, enjoy, share ... so much to look forward too, so much to live well for here, today, for the reward of tomorrow, which will be our forever, living in the now.

I know that feeling ES Mine wakes as soon as it`s daylight and if he knows I`m awake will sit and wait for me to get out of bed to take him out (sometimes he has a long wait )

I have a lot of respect for Bips, and the threads he does. There is a lot in them that I think could persuade people that this is all true

(Bips..... sorry for slightly de-railing your thread!)

Perfection in eternity.... I like that, a lot


PS You know lying is a sin don`t you? Baaadddddd man

[RickD]

Just don`t rush off there ES!

Stick around a little longer, please

Good point about Mary being sinless, btw.

Annette,

FYI, Mary's sinlessness is a Catholic doctrine. One would have a difficult time coming up with a biblical argument for Mary's sinlessness. It's just not in scripture.

Mary does not have to be sinless for Christ to be sinless.

The bible teaches the miraculous virgin conception of Christ, not the immaculate conception of mary.

Hey Rick

As you know I haven`t read a lot of Scripture so I will take your word for it that Mary`s sinlessness isn`t accounted for anywhere but it makes sense to me. How, if Mary wasn`t sinless, could Christ have been born to Her? For me, and it is a personal thing, Mary is an important part of faith for me. She allows me access to God from a woman`s, and a mother`s point of view.

It was Mary`s yes that allowed all this to happen so I think she is a vital part of my faith.

I believe in God, and that Christ is my Saviour, I have no particular denomination so I am not put off by the fact it is a Catholic doctrine. I have looked into the Catholic faith a little, and I have to say, for me, it strikes a chord.

Annette,

Please don't take my word for it. Check for yourself. And if Catholicism strikes a chord with you, and you have any questions about Catholicism, you can ask Byblos. He's our resident Catholic "expert".

[Storyteller]

Will do Rick

I`m not sure I want to be tied down to a particular denomination though, at least, not yet. I`m still exploring.

[Byblos]

Please don't take my word for it. Check for yourself. And if Catholicism strikes a chord with you, and you have any questions about Catholicism, you can ask Byblos. He's our resident Catholic "expert".

I'm glad you put "expert" in quotes, I am no such thing. I tend to not discuss anything related to Catholicism on here unless specific questions are asked and, even at that, I would prefer that it be done via PMs.

Just as an FYI, the doctrine of Mary's sinlessness is certainly defensible from scripture but that is not what one needs to keep in mind. What you need to keep in mind is that EVERY Marian doctrine has absolutely nothing to do with Mary and everything to do with Christ in defense against a multitude of heresies. Take away the Marian doctrines and you've essentially vindicated those heresies.

[Storyteller]

Thank you Byblos

I may well pm you at some point then

I am enthralled by the Mysteries at the moment, they reach me in such a personal, powerful way, it`s hard to put into words. I had never really considered Mary in my faith before so learning about Catholicism is very interesting. I like the idea of meditating on them and I am seriously looking for a Rosary.


(Sorry again Bips, for derailing your thread!)

[melanie]

Everything we need as christians is contained in the bible. It is our authority.
Annette I strongly advise that you read scripture and rely on the bible not church doctrine and tradition. The Catholic Church believes that they have authority on biblical text determined and disseminated by the church. People must also accept the church as possessing the fullness of revelation. Catholicism has many doctrines outside of Scripture.
Mary, queen of heaven
The sinlessness of Mary, which is not stated any where in scripture.
The perpetual Virgin, completely contradicted by scripture. Jesus had siblings.
The ascension of Mary to heaven, escaping death, found nowhere in scripture.
The mediatrix of Mary, contradicted by scripture, there is one mediator and that is Jesus.
The idol worship of Mary, changing of the Ten Commandments as set out in Exodus, the Catholic Church has altered the second commandment to suit their doctrinal agenda.

This is just the unscriptural doctrine involving Mary.
Many Catholics are at complete ease with handing authority over to the church and the church using tradition outside of Scripture and that is entirely their choice, but as someone new to Christianity you should be aware that a lot of their beliefs are beliefs of the 'church' not found in scripture.

Edit: When you pray the rosary half of your prayers are directed to Mary, Jesus told us to pray to the Father and Him alone. Nowhere in scripture is there any example of anyone praying to a saint or an angel. Only God is all powerful and all knowing, Mary cannot hear and answer our prayers. All prayers should be to our Father, through Our Lord Jesus. And then we just have to praise and thank Him, tell Him what's on our mind, spend some time chilling with Him. Prayer shouldnt be repetitive and ritualistic and we certainly shouldn't be praying to Mary, as prescribed by a priest who calls himself holy as an authority to have our sins forgiven. There is only one person who qualifies for that job, Jesus!

[Rob]

How, if Mary wasn`t sinless, could Christ have been born to Her? For me, and it is a personal thing, Mary is an important part of faith for me. She allows me access to God from a woman`s, and a mother`s point of view.

So was Mary's mother sinless? And her mother? And her mother? If you think that the sinless bit had to start with Mary, why couldn't it have started with Christ instead?

It was Mary`s yes that allowed all this to happen so I think she is a vital part of my faith.

Why not give the glory to God completely? There are plenty of people and things that "allowed" the prophecy to unfold. Pilate allowed the crucifixion to happen which "caused" the atonement.