Why US non-believers must reject Islamophobic 'New Atheism'

[Kenny]

Galileo did not look in the bible or his religion and conclude the Earth is not the center of the Universe so it would be foolish to claim Christianity provided us with this answer; even though Galileo was christian

I never said scientists' Christianity provided us with anything... scientists who were Christians did. To argue a religion can do anything other than define a persons' faith is ridiculous or better still your word ... foolish.

Oh so are you changing your position now? True YOU never claimed Christianity provided us with anything, but the person you were defending (ablecainsbrother) did. His exact words were (3/29/15 1:19am)

"It was Christianity that gave you modern day science also,we were stuck in the dark ages but Christianity brought us out of it and it wasn't easy,Christians were burned at the stake but their deaths eventually led to modern day science"

I was refuting this claim when you jumped in attempting to defend his position and refute mine. So are you changing your mind now?

You came closer here... Christianity didn't provide the answers, but neither did these men put down their bibles to look in to the skies. They did both, so Christians, practicing Christianity while looking in to the skies is your final answer . (bible reading scientist)

I have a feeling if Galilo been practicing Christianity while looking in the sky, He wouldn't have gotten into so much trouble with the religious leaders of his day like when he claimed the Earth was traveling around the Sun; rather than the other way around; which he was forced by the religious leaders to recant.



Ken

[abelcainsbrother]

What do you mean by "Christians who make up the body of Christ? How are these Christians different than those who do not

Ken, all i am saying here is how do you separate the two ?

There is a difference between a religious person who uses his religion to find answers vs the religious person who sits his religion aside and looks for answers.

Galileo did not look in the bible or his religion and conclude the Earth is not the center of the Universe so it would be foolish to claim Christianity provided us with this answer; even though Galileo was christian.
Columbus did not look into the Bible or his religion and realize the Earth was round; so it would be foolish to claim Christianity provided us with that answer.

Christianity did not provide us with these answers, men who just so happen to be Christian; who were willing to put their bibles down and look into the sky, provided us with these answers.

Nothing you just said refutes the fact that modern science was started by Christianity and both Galileo and Colombus would tell you that it was from the bible they were inspired,Colombus knew the earth was round because of what the bible reveals,you are thinking the bible taught things it did not say.Also I said it was not easy hence Galileo and how the church treated him,but also Colombus also,it was not easy like I said.It was discovered the earth was not 6000 years old by Christians and the very first dinosaur was discovered by a Christian geologist.Why do you think Charles Darwin knew this?

[abelcainsbrother]

I have a feeling if Galilo been practicing Christianity while looking in the sky, He wouldn't have gotten into so much trouble with the religious leaders of his day like when he claimed the Earth was traveling around the Sun; rather than the other way around; which he was forced by the religious leaders to recant.

What makes you think Galileo was not a practicing Christian?He was a Christian while looking in the sky and just like today it was a majority biblical interpretation that was believed by the majority that was wrong,not the bible.The same thing happens today with this young earth interpretation today except there is no punishment for rejecting it like there was back then.Psalm 19 revealed the sun has its own orbit or circuit long before science discovered it true.

[Kenny]

Nothing you just said refutes the fact that modern science was started by Christianity and both Galileo and Colombus would tell you that it was from the bible they were inspired,Colombus knew the earth was round because of what the bible reveals,

Where are you getting this stuff??? It is a matter of record that Columbus knew the Earth was round by observing the horizon.

like I said.It was discovered the earth was not 6000 years old by Christians

6000 years old? Now that sounds like an example of Christians looking into the bible and coming up with scientific answers. We have trees older than that! According to science, the world is much older than 6000 years (LOL)

Ken

[Kenny]

I have a feeling if Galilo been practicing Christianity while looking in the sky, He wouldn't have gotten into so much trouble with the religious leaders of his day like when he claimed the Earth was traveling around the Sun; rather than the other way around; which he was forced by the religious leaders to recant.

What makes you think Galileo was not a practicing Christian?

I never said that. Just because a person puts his Bible down to do something doesn't mean he can't pick it back up when he is done with his task! Do you practice Christianity in everything you do? Are you practicing Christianity when you wash your car?
My point was; he did not use his christian beliefs to conclude the Earth orbits the Sun; he used scientific methods.

Ken

[abelcainsbrother]

Nothing you just said refutes the fact that modern science was started by Christianity and both Galileo and Colombus would tell you that it was from the bible they were inspired,Colombus knew the earth was round because of what the bible reveals,

Where are you getting this stuff??? It is a matter of record that Columbus knew the Earth was round by observing the horizon.

like I said.It was discovered the earth was not 6000 years old by Christians

6000 years old? Now that sounds like an example of Christians looking into the bible and coming up with scientific answers. We have trees older than that! According to science, the world is much older than 6000 years (LOL)

Ken

Where am I getting this stuff? Because the bible reveals the earth is round and not flat and Colombus believed the bible.It is a myth that Christians believed the earth was flat,that myth was started by two storry-tellers that were not Christians.

Yes the earth is not 6000 years old and people's interpretation is wrong claiming the bible says it.

[abelcainsbrother]

I have a feeling if Galilo been practicing Christianity while looking in the sky, He wouldn't have gotten into so much trouble with the religious leaders of his day like when he claimed the Earth was traveling around the Sun; rather than the other way around; which he was forced by the religious leaders to recant.

What makes you think Galileo was not a practicing Christian?

I never said that. Just because a person puts his Bible down to do something doesn't mean he can't pick it back up when he is done with his task! Do you practice Christianity in everything you do? Are you practicing Christianity when you wash your car?
My point was; he did not use his christian beliefs to conclude the Earth orbits the Sun; he used scientific methods.

Ken

OK I guess I'll go along with that however I am a Christian in everything I do,perhaps Galileo was singing a hymn to God while looking.I'll admit this though a lot of the scientific things discovered went against the grain of the majority interpretation of the bible at the time and it kinda challenged their faith.

[Kenny]

Nothing you just said refutes the fact that modern science was started by Christianity and both Galileo and Colombus would tell you that it was from the bible they were inspired,Colombus knew the earth was round because of what the bible reveals,

Where are you getting this stuff??? It is a matter of record that Columbus knew the Earth was round by observing the horizon.

like I said.It was discovered the earth was not 6000 years old by Christians

6000 years old? Now that sounds like an example of Christians looking into the bible and coming up with scientific answers. We have trees older than that! According to science, the world is much older than 6000 years (LOL)

Ken

Where am I getting this stuff? Because the bible reveals the earth is round and not flat

Then how come all those christians reading the bible were convinced the Earth was flat? And only after science figured it out did they point to the bible and say "ahh yes! it was there all the time; we must have missed it"

Yes the earth is not 6000 years old and people's interpretation is wrong claiming the bible says it.

Didn't you just say Christians discovered the Earth was 6000 years old? Tap out bro! You ain't gonna win this one.

Ken

[abelcainsbrother]

Nothing you just said refutes the fact that modern science was started by Christianity and both Galileo and Colombus would tell you that it was from the bible they were inspired,Colombus knew the earth was round because of what the bible reveals,

Where are you getting this stuff??? It is a matter of record that Columbus knew the Earth was round by observing the horizon.

like I said.It was discovered the earth was not 6000 years old by Christians

6000 years old? Now that sounds like an example of Christians looking into the bible and coming up with scientific answers. We have trees older than that! According to science, the world is much older than 6000 years (LOL)

Ken

Where am I getting this stuff? Because the bible reveals the earth is round and not flat

Then how come all those christians reading the bible were convinced the Earth was flat? And only after science figured it out did they point to the bible and say "agh it was there all the time; we must have missed it"

Yes the earth is not 6000 years old and people's interpretation is wrong claiming the bible says it.

Didn't you just say Christians discovered the Earth was 6000 years old? Tap out bro! You ain't gonna win this one.

Ken

I'm not saying there were not people who believed the earth was flat but I'm saying Christians did not believe that and the flat earth stuff was not started by Christians.The Greeks knew the earth was round.

No I did not say Christians discovered the earth was 6000 years old,re-read what I said.It was discovered by Christians the earth was very old and not 6000 years old.Charles Darwin knew the earth was old because of Christians,Charles Darwin had just got out of biblical seminary before he went out on his boat and dreamed up how to make a case for evolution.

[Kenny]

Nothing you just said refutes the fact that modern science was started by Christianity and both Galileo and Colombus would tell you that it was from the bible they were inspired,Colombus knew the earth was round because of what the bible reveals,

Where are you getting this stuff??? It is a matter of record that Columbus knew the Earth was round by observing the horizon.

like I said.It was discovered the earth was not 6000 years old by Christians

6000 years old? Now that sounds like an example of Christians looking into the bible and coming up with scientific answers. We have trees older than that! According to science, the world is much older than 6000 years (LOL)

Ken

Where am I getting this stuff? Because the bible reveals the earth is round and not flat

Then how come all those christians reading the bible were convinced the Earth was flat? And only after science figured it out did they point to the bible and say "agh it was there all the time; we must have missed it"

Yes the earth is not 6000 years old and people's interpretation is wrong claiming the bible says it.

Didn't you just say Christians discovered the Earth was 6000 years old? Tap out bro! You ain't gonna win this one.

Ken

I'm not saying there were not people who believed the earth was flat but I'm saying Christians did not believe that and the flat earth stuff was not started by Christians.The Greeks knew the earth was round.

During the time of Columbus, most people thought the Earth was flat; Christians included.

No I did not say Christians discovered the earth was 6000 years old,re-read what I said.It was discovered by Christians the earth was very old and not 6000 years old.

Young Earth Creationist concluded the Earth was only 6000 years old. They came to this conclusion by picking up the Bible and counting back generations to Adam and Eve. The people who discovered the Earth was Billions of years old did not use the bible to conclude that; they used science. That is the point I was trying to make.

Ken

[B. W.]

Kenny, please review these articles from this website on this subject before you continue making broad brushed statements...

Thank you

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetic ... faith.html

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetic ... eists.html
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[Kenny]

Kenny, please review these articles from this website on this subject before you continue making broad brushed statements...

Thank you

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetic ... faith.html

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetic ... eists.html
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What did I say that you found objective?

Ken

[RickD]

Ken wrote:
What did I say that you found objective?

Well Ken, let's start with this:

Ken wrote:
During the time of Columbus, most people thought the Earth was flat; Christians included.

Do you have anything to back up this assertion that "During the time of Columbus, most people thought the Earth was flat; Christians included."?
This link says otherwise:
http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php ... -was-flat/

[Kenny]

Ken wrote:
What did I say that you found objective?

Well Ken, let's start with this:

Ken wrote:
During the time of Columbus, most people thought the Earth was flat; Christians included.

Do you have anything to back up this assertion that "During the time of Columbus, most people thought the Earth was flat; Christians included."?
This link says otherwise:
http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php ... -was-flat/

fair enough! If he disagrees with my claim, simply ask me to back it up, or offer a rebuttal. The way he accused me of making broad brush statements sounds like he was coming at me in a negative way.

Ken

[PaulSacramento]

First off Columbus, in terms of science, set-off to prove that one could circumnavigate the world and he thought that because they did think the world was round.
The Portuguese were the first to do so of course BUT long before Columbus it was known that the world was round ( though it was not know if one could sail around it).
As the article above noted:

In Christian medieval Europe, Bede (7th century C.E.), a scholar and a Catholic monk, produced an influential treatise that included a discussion of the spherical nature of the world. This work, The Reckoning of Time, was copied and distributed to clerics across the Carolingian empire. Later, in the 1300s, Dante Alighieri’s Divine Comedy also describes the Earth as a sphere.

And:

As historian Jeffrey Burton Russell stated,

With extraordinary few exceptions, no educated person in the history of Western Civilization from the third century B.C. onward believed that the Earth was flat.

and:

As to how the myth that people during Medieval times thought the Earth was flat came about, this is up for debate. The idea seems to have first popped up in the 17th century and appears to have been, at least in part, put forth by secular scientists railing against the ignorance and misguided notions of religious groups (specifically Catholics), who they claimed in Medieval times believed the world was flat- ironically, despite the lack of much evidence supporting that claim, and the numerous documented instances of religious scholars from that era stating the Earth is round. The myth gained significant traction in the 19th century with various works, such as Andrew Dickson White’s History of the Warfare of Science with Theology.

I think it is time to put this silly notion to rest, along with the silliness of the so-called "dark ages" BS.