Dynamics of a Relationship

[Starhunter]

What are some of the reasons for same sex preferences, considering that males often prefer to imitate femininity, and females often prefer to imitate masculinity.

It is clearly not always the case, so we cannot generalize, but how can someone be attracted to the same sex, and yet by their actions declare that they prefer to be like the opposite sex, or simply to like the opposite sex?

What are some of the causes of these roles played in relationships - which by the way, apply to hetero relationships as well?

[B. W.]

What are some of the reasons for same sex preferences, considering that males often prefer to imitate femininity, and females often prefer to imitate masculinity.

It is clearly not always the case, so we cannot generalize, but how can someone be attracted to the same sex, and yet by their actions declare that they prefer to be like the opposite sex, or simply to like the opposite sex?

What are some of the causes of these roles played in relationships - which by the way, apply to hetero relationships as well?

Males DO NOT OFTEN prefer to imitate femininity - you are attempting to appeal to the leadiing the witness fallacy .

Also, in the west - modern progressive libs have control of the schools and brain washed a whole lot of folks and messed up things so bad that is it any wonder folks are simply confused...
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[Starhunter]

I think you may have misunderstood the context - gay men often imitate feminine qualities, the Bible calls it being effeminate, and it covers those who claim to be hetero as well. An effeminate man is not necessarily gay.

But with both male and female gay communities, their is an obvious tendency for either party to act and or look like the opposite sex and not the same sex.

Why is that when they claim to love those of their own gender?

[B. W.]

I think you may have misunderstood the context - gay men often imitate feminine qualities, the Bible calls it being effeminate, and it covers those who claim to be hetero as well. An effeminate man is not necessarily gay.

But with both male and female gay communities, their is an obvious tendency for either party to act and or look like the opposite sex and not the same sex.

Why is that when they claim to love those of their own gender?

Sorry I misunderstood what you were conveying.

You asked why: one...their is an obvious tendency for either party to act and or look like the opposite sex and not the same sex...

And two: why is that when they claim to love those of their own gender?

One answer: Deception feed by the natural human need for attention...

Another.. God turns them over to a debased mind...

Take your pick or add to the list what you think...
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[Jac3510]

I appreciate your question, but I think the fact that there are quite a few homosexual couples who do not have an opposite-gender-imitated relationship renders the whole discussion moot. In other words, while it is certainly true than in a lot of male/male or female/female relationships, there is one partner that "acts like" the other sex, the fact remains that there are a lot of male/male and female/female relationships in which both partners "act like" their biological sex or both partners "act like" their opposite sex.

I suspect what accounts for the instances you are raising--a male being attracted to an effeminate male, for instance--has less to do with their sexuality and more to do with simple preferences. I, for instance, happen to generally prefer redheads to blonds and strong women to what I characterize as "mousy" women. Perhaps, then, the reason you have a lot of homosexual couples in which you have one partner "playing the traditional gender role" and the other "playing the opposite" role may be nothing more than the fact that this homosexual male happens to like effeminate males whereas that homosexual male happens to prefer masculine males; when they meet, these two are more likely to be attracted to one another.

In other words, I wouldn't try to draw any generalizations about the nature of attraction from the subset of homosexual couples in which you have a masculine/femine pair regardless of the actual sex of the individuals.

[Starhunter]

Sorry I misunderstood what you were conveying.

You asked why: one...their is an obvious tendency for either party to act and or look like the opposite sex and not the same sex...

And two: why is that when they claim to love those of their own gender?

One answer: Deception feed by the natural human need for attention...

Another.. God turns them over to a debased mind...

Take your pick or add to the list what you think...
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That's alright, my comments were slightly unclear.

That deception of the natural heart yearning for attention, is that a bad thing, and if so, are hetero interests also subject to deception in regards to choosing a partner?

[Starhunter]

I appreciate your question, but I think the fact that there are quite a few homosexual couples who do not have an opposite-gender-imitated relationship renders the whole discussion moot. In other words, while it is certainly true than in a lot of male/male or female/female relationships, there is one partner that "acts like" the other sex, the fact remains that there are a lot of male/male and female/female relationships in which both partners "act like" their biological sex or both partners "act like" their opposite sex.

I suspect what accounts for the instances you are raising--a male being attracted to an effeminate male, for instance--has less to do with their sexuality and more to do with simple preferences. I, for instance, happen to generally prefer redheads to blonds and strong women to what I characterize as "mousy" women. Perhaps, then, the reason you have a lot of homosexual couples in which you have one partner "playing the traditional gender role" and the other "playing the opposite" role may be nothing more than the fact that this homosexual male happens to like effeminate males whereas that homosexual male happens to prefer masculine males; when they meet, these two are more likely to be attracted to one another.

In other words, I wouldn't try to draw any generalizations about the nature of attraction from the subset of homosexual couples in which you have a masculine/feminine pair regardless of the actual sex of the individuals.

Yes, the question I am posing is not really one that can be isolated, as you have shown by the connecting factors.

There is the question of why there is an attraction to the same sex, with the apparent contradiction of including the opposite sex, as if trying to get the best of both worlds.

But as you have pointed out, there are many relationship values, not just sexual.

In regards to the dynamics between a couple of any orientation, we find it involves the balance in power and or position in the relationship. Which for some reason occurs naturally and consequentially. And we know that these dynamics are not always gender sensitive, and also subject to change with time.

Because no two people are the same, there are many levels of equality as well as inequality in any relationship, not necessarily a bad thing but just a way of organizing the way things work.
And of course there are seriously imbalanced relationships, where freedom and welfare is absent.

When we consider the gender role alone, is there anything better than a male and female type of interaction regardless of gender interests and social role playing?

There are many different views on the roles of males and females, that some think should not exist and or do not really exist at all. Is that a denial of different values, abilities and power, or can people really be clones?

What is with the view of Christians with the "neither male nor female in Christ" concept, and would that conflict with the expected distinctions God has put into the Bible?

[B. W.]

Sorry I misunderstood what you were conveying.

You asked why: one...their is an obvious tendency for either party to act and or look like the opposite sex and not the same sex...

And two: why is that when they claim to love those of their own gender?

One answer: Deception feed by the natural human need for attention...

Another.. God turns them over to a debased mind...

Take your pick or add to the list what you think...

That's alright, my comments were slightly unclear.

That deception of the natural heart yearning for attention, is that a bad thing, and if so, are hetero interests also subject to deception in regards to choosing a partner?

Natural human need for attention is basic in all human beings. We all have it. It is normal. Infants and toddlers have it. Adults, teenagers, children all have a natural need for attention. This is something the devil uses to ensnare people by twisting this need into something more on the line of a self absorbed hubris need for attention. What do I mean by that?

Think of John 3:19-21 - people love darkness more than light because their actions (what people employ/obsess themselves over) are dysfunctional. In other words, people gain attention and fill the need to be somebody, feel important in their state of dysfunction. For example, people self sabotage relationships, live in abusive marriages, live a life of drama, etc and etc and no matter how bad it is, or how they hate it, it gives them attention and a purpose for one's mere existence.

You can tell such folks there is freedom from abuse, drugs, freedom from living like a dorrmat, or a loser, Free from feeling that no one likes you; freedom from feeling ickey, dirty, living as a non person - what do they do? Answer: Reject the freedom and continue to live in their dysfunctional state because it gives them their purpose. This purpose feeds on their need for attention their actions garner from others. Do you see this? If they let it go - how would they function? It is like a vicious circular trap. Met folks like this?

You see, somewhere in ones life the need for attention was twisted into a obsession. This obsession is what the Apostle Paul mentioned in Romans 1:26 as degrading passions .ie. obsessions. Obsessions fill ones need for attention and warps it. The need for the stereotype you mentioned feeds off the obsession for attention and such folks do indeed seek attention in order to dominate. No doubts about it, such seek to dominate/control. The reasons and causes are varied as to why this comes about.

After counseling homosexuals during my career in social work on the secular level, I have come to this conclusion: they are very controlling and dominating people that will put to shame any dominating male/female relationship by leaps and bounds. Most of the suicides gay folks commit is due to the abuse within these relationships, and then obsessing over losing control (and not about about mythological discrimination used by homosexuals seeking more control over society at large). This control feeds off the human natural need for attention and makes it warped/evil/dysfunction to the core.

Hope this helps you understand what I mean.
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[Starhunter]

Natural human need for attention is basic in all human beings. We all have it. ...
Think of John 3:19-21 - people love darkness more than light because their actions ...

You can tell such folks there is freedom from abuse, drugs, freedom from living like a dorrmat, or a loser, Free from feeling that no one likes you; freedom from feeling ickey, dirty, living as a non person - what do they do? Answer: Reject the freedom and continue to live in their dysfunctional state ...

After counseling homosexuals during my career in social work on the secular level, I have come to this conclusion: they are very controlling and dominating people that will put to shame any dominating male/female relationship by leaps and bounds. Most of the suicides gay folks commit is due to the abuse within these relationships, and then obsessing over losing control (and not about about mythological discrimination used by homosexuals seeking more control over society at large). This control feeds off the human natural need for attention and makes it warped/evil/dysfunction to the core.

Hope this helps you understand what I mean.
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You have centered your post with the gay community, but I'm sure you agree that all these factors can be the same in any other relationship?

Are these needs for attention just plain selfish or are they caused by something more subtle and sinister which hardly a soul has the ability to understand and confront? Is the suicide rate a sign of that?

You were saying that when some people are offered another life free of their desperate ways of doing things, they don't, or can't accept it. Is their inability to respond or change permanently a result of their real needs not being addressed or are they simply corrupt?
Or do we have a watered down gospel which really has nothing to offer?

[B. W.]

Natural human need for attention is basic in all human beings. We all have it. ...
Think of John 3:19-21 - people love darkness more than light because their actions ...

You can tell such folks there is freedom from abuse, drugs, freedom from living like a dorrmat, or a loser, Free from feeling that no one likes you; freedom from feeling ickey, dirty, living as a non person - what do they do? Answer: Reject the freedom and continue to live in their dysfunctional state ...

After counseling homosexuals during my career in social work on the secular level, I have come to this conclusion: they are very controlling and dominating people that will put to shame any dominating male/female relationship by leaps and bounds. Most of the suicides gay folks commit is due to the abuse within these relationships, and then obsessing over losing control (and not about about mythological discrimination used by homosexuals seeking more control over society at large). This control feeds off the human natural need for attention and makes it warped/evil/dysfunction to the core.

Hope this helps you understand what I mean.
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You have centered your post with the gay community, but I'm sure you agree that all these factors can be the same in any other relationship?

Are these needs for attention just plain selfish or are they caused by something more subtle and sinister which hardly a soul has the ability to understand and confront? Is the suicide rate a sign of that?

You were saying that when some people are offered another life free of their desperate ways of doing things, they don't, or can't accept it. Is their inability to respond or change permanently a result of their real needs not being addressed or are they simply corrupt?
Or do we have a watered down gospel which really has nothing to offer?

Natural need for attention is normal and helps refine human character to build on becoming just, caring, loving; however, sin enter the world and distorted and corrupted this in many various ways with the result that humanities justice, caring, love is now one sided and agenda driven to fill the need for attention, acceptance, to feel of value. So to answer you as best as I can: Natural need for attention is good and God given but the fall of Humanity perverted this natural need for attention and changed its very nature to keep folks in bondage and slavery and service to a whole host of bad things and behaviors too numerous to list.

As for homosexual, I base my observations after counseling many in the field of secular social work as well as others, who threatened by political agenda, bias, and will, are prevented from disclosing what we actually have found. Homosexuality is far different from normal man and woman love and far more into seeking dominance over a loved one than we are allowed to disclose as this is not politically marxist correct.

So I offer readers this challenge: Do men and women think and reason the same?

The answer is no - men and women think different and therefore each sexes manner of love is different as well. This is normal as man and woman who love each other balance each other out and provide a balance in raising children. Two men loving each other cannot love the same way as husband and wife can to each other nor can two women love each other the same as a husband and wife. Why? simple, men and women's love is different from each other. In social field, journalism and political fields, this sound reason is denied even a voice to be heard. The argument of homosexual love, cause it is love, is equal to a man (husband) and woman (wife) love cannot be true at all because men and women think and reason differently and thus love differently too. One produces life and keeps the species going and the other side ensures a species death and demise. The thief does come to kill, rob, and destroy all the while making a person feel happy about their own destruction.

The God given natural need for attention has been corrupted and twisted by the fall and only Jesus can restore our natural need for attention in a healthy manner. For now this need has been turned into something sinister and selfish. This self love causes hubris and folks to reject Jesus altogether and has them going after others in a intolerant way for the goal of destruction and total dominance.

Good example of this is with the 'Religious Freedom Restoration Act' incidence in the USA. A better response to the gestapo tactics of the left would be for Christians to and Governors to say this:

This act is good as it helps prevent homosexual bakers and businesses, for reason of conscience, to make wedding cakes and provide services to white supremacist and Muslims who murder homosexuals for sport. Isn't that a good thing?

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[Starhunter]

So sinners in general have unusual or overrated needs, because they are insecure, afraid, guilty, and anxious. etc.

We know the response to those desperate needs is to run, fight, give up or whatever. Game playing, pretending, acting, lying, manipulating, etc are the ways in which people often try to protect themselves - the uncomfortable and irritating fig leaves.

Are dysfunctional relationships of any kind, just due to a non-hetero situation or is it deeper than that?

Is it just sin which causes an overdue concern for oneself, or do the circumstances in life, such a trauma and abuse cause these horrendous anxieties and disorientations in people?

[B. W.]

So sinners in general have unusual or overrated needs, because they are insecure, afraid, guilty, and anxious. etc.

We know the response to those desperate needs is to run, fight, give up or whatever. Game playing, pretending, acting, lying, manipulating, etc are the ways in which people often try to protect themselves - the uncomfortable and irritating fig leaves.

Are dysfunctional relationships of any kind, just due to a non-hetero situation or is it deeper than that?

Is it just sin which causes an overdue concern for oneself, or do the circumstances in life, such a trauma and abuse cause these horrendous anxieties and disorientations in people?

It is far deeper...

People love darkness more than light, that is the issue. People do not see the reality of their own darkness nor can they accept that they are personally responsible for it either.
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[Starhunter]

How can people be responsible for thousands of generations of inherited tendencies, and the state of the world, and being born into it with out a paddle? How can they be blamed for a darkness which is deeper than what they are able to recognize?

I have introduced the subject of the terrible consequences of abuse which leads to dysfunctional and unresolved ways of relating to others, what darkness might be deeper than that?

[B. W.]

How can people be responsible for thousands of generations of inherited tendencies, and the state of the world, and being born into it with out a paddle? How can they be blamed for a darkness which is deeper than what they are able to recognize?

I have introduced the subject of the terrible consequences of abuse which leads to dysfunctional and unresolved ways of relating to others, what darkness might be deeper than that?

It is not about inherited tendencies, it is about nature and the nature of sin (missing the mark - straying off course) that produces two types of death, double death as the Hebrew of Genesis chapter 2 and 3 states. One is psychical death and the other is often referred to as spiritual death. But, what is death? Think of death as launching out into a state of disunity, ruin, decay, rot, and dust. Therefore, Spiritual death launches one into disunity from true life, bringing ruin, decay, rot, and finally makes dust out of the gift of life God gave. This has its own living effect corrupting all that it touches - it corrupts one's nature - changing it into creating not the image of God (a refection of God's governing attributes) but rather into decay, rot, disunity, and turns things of life into dust.

However, though completely undeserved, God sent Jesus to reconcile us and change our nature back to way he designed it to function (see Romans 8:29, Genesis 1:26-31) and did so in a manner that does no violation to any of His own attributes, gifts, promises, and callings. He gave us a gift of life, and the intelligence to reason on our own in order to exercise dominion. When sin entered through the world through humanities first parents, it corrupted and sickened human nature because sin brings death's decay, rot, ruin, disunity, along with it's turning things into dust, into the world as a new governing order. Jesus frees us from this world's governing order of disunity, ruin, rot, decay and dust.

Sin and dysfunction is our own doing, and none of God's doing. The one discovered who brought this into the world was judged and had his head crushed by Jesus on the Cross and by the Resurrection and Jesus continues to do so today through His new creations, his people. Human beings are responsible for all our own actions, not God. The line of thought you mentioned may have a little merit if Jesus did not come into this world to save the lost. Since he did, it does not hold any merit whatsoever due to the price He paid to set us free from disunity, ruin, rot, decay and dust. The apostle Paul expressed this same line of reasoning in Romans chapters 5 and in the entire book of Romans etc an etc...
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[Starhunter]

While I don't disagree with your responses, they don't answer the question why someone would claim to like the same sex and yet imitate the opposite sex, which they supposedly shun.
To put it down to utter depravity is too simple and does not show what causes a person to have these mixed roles, neither does it help them to find where they can be comforted.

You mentioned that gay people have some really strong feelings and tendencies, even to the point of suicide - quite a terrible burden to be carrying to bring them to that point.
I can only say that they are suffering intensely if not often over a long time, and that they are unable to find their way out of it.
I don't believe that they mean to reject any help offered, but that their true needs are not being recognized or met, because of an over simplified approach to their lives in general.

The world has had different male and female roles, often changed by evil influences introduced into society by Satan.
People often revolt against one gender or another due to poor role models, if not controlling and abusive situations in the home.

You say that they are controlling, which is what has been taught and exemplified to them in their lives.

Socially accepted roles taught in society are not always good for the children, hence the different and unexpected choices they make in a partner. Roles like Homer Simpson - the stupid father.
Alcoholism is a major influence in producing stereotype parents. Emotional absenteeism, abuse and violence, controlling behavior, neglect and so forth. The child is expected to grow up without due attention and time being devoted to it, while the parents drink themselves away. If the children fall out of line with those expectations they are abused, simply because the parent has no energy or desire to deal with the task of coaching.

Gay behavior is frequently linked to parents whose behavior denied their own proper gender role. The absent father the controlling mother, etc. The child is often trapped within unhealthy emotional tendencies, dependencies and responsibilities, which it repeats in its own partnerships.
So I don't agree that we can say that people choose their partner and lifestyle because of their own intrinsic evil.
The issue is deeper, but in understanding their lives, and not putting them in the sin bin at first sight. That's too easy.