Note Apostasy and Sermon link

[B. W.]

I suggest folks read the news letter on - Warnings for the Church - just go to bottom of the page and click on the big Picture to read the news letter

and listen to the Free Audio Sermon - Truth - posted April 2015 at... audio is from a 2004 sermon ...

http://www.truthwithjohn.com/

And let me know what you think?
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[1over137]

I will let you know my feelings.

Reading the article - was a good read. Reminded me also of the Romans 12:2 (Do not be conformed to this world...)
But one thing I am disturbed about: the man is telling you you are entering the truth zone and to be sure what he is telling you is truth.

Listening the to sermon - Is this a sermon or a show?

I may be totally off, but those are my first impressions.

[Furstentum Liechtenstein]

I didn't listen to the sermon, I only read the article.

It is evident that the Church is falling away from the truth what with all the strange gospels out there: Prosperity, Demon-slayers, tongue-talkers, oecumenicalism in general, not to speak of all the various Onlyisms. And just look at the more popular threads on this board: threads about the non-existence of Hell, about many paths to God, about the salvation "those who never heard of Jesus". These testify to a surprising level of biblical illiteracy among professing Christians.

Then there are the various pseudo-Christian religions popping up here and there or knocking at your door: Christian Science, Christadelphians, Jehovah's Witnesses, Chrislam, Mormons and all the various wacko groups claiming to be the descendents of the "Ten Lost Tribes".

And what about the remaking of Jesus the Messiah? He's been turned into cuddly baby Jesus or a wise Buddhist-like man; and Palestinian terrorists have remade him into a Palestinian "freedom fighter" ...! As I write this, we are on the eve of the yearly Chocolate Festival (also known as "Easter") and the only "Jesus" I see on TV or read about in the paper are those filipino kooks who crucify themselves...

So, yes...there is a falling away from the truth of the Gospel towards theatrics and dancing around various golden cows.

FL

[B. W.]

I didn't listen to the sermon, I only read the article.

It is evident that the Church is falling away from the truth what with all the strange gospels out there: Prosperity, Demon-slayers, tongue-talkers, oecumenicalism in general, not to speak of all the various Onlyisms. And just look at the more popular threads on this board: threads about the non-existence of Hell, about many paths to God, about the salvation "those who never heard of Jesus". These testify to a surprising level of biblical illiteracy among professing Christians.

Then there are the various pseudo-Christian religions popping up here and there or knocking at your door: Christian Science, Christadelphians, Jehovah's Witnesses, Chrislam, Mormons and all the various wacko groups claiming to be the descendents of the "Ten Lost Tribes".

And what about the remaking of Jesus the Messiah? He's been turned into cuddly baby Jesus or a wise Buddhist-like man; and Palestinian terrorists have remade him into a Palestinian "freedom fighter" ...! As I write this, we are on the eve of the yearly Chocolate Festival (also known as "Easter") and the only "Jesus" I see on TV or read about in the paper are those filipino kooks who crucify themselves...

So, yes...there is a falling away from the truth of the Gospel towards theatrics and dancing around various golden cows.

FL

What you wrote is pretty much what is in the audio... however - your wording was more elegant to say the least if not less
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[1over137]

Hey, B.W. The sermon was a very quick English to me. Is this also how sermons look like?

[Furstentum Liechtenstein]

and listen to the Free Audio Sermon - Truth - posted April 2015 at... audio is from a 2004 sermon ...

I listened to the guy's sermon and if he had a church in my area, I'd attend. I like people who tell it like it is.

Unfortunately, I doubt someone like neo will be impressed by the sermon. Neo seems to be letting the world get to him. I don't blame him for that because he lives in a terribly repressive place and I would probably bend as well if I lived in Lahore.*

What is more surprising, is how a Christian living in a rich country like the UK can be shaken in his faith by some man-made idea like the multiverse. I won't mention any names here because he's a moderator and has tusks of silver.

FL

*There is an interesting play on words here...but I'll be politically correct for a change...

[1over137]

Look at your post FL and tell me what motivated you to write such a post?
Becuase what I think motivated you was your pride. Did you have fun writing that?
Tell me. I want to understand you.

You say you will not mention names, yet you mention it. It is obvious who is on your mind.

And please do not think you know neo or silver. If you were more communicative with people and tried to understand them you could understand them better and not draw such conclusions.

[Furstentum Liechtenstein]

Look at your post FL and tell me what motivated you to write such a post?
Becuase what I think motivated you was your pride. Did you have fun writing that?
Tell me. I want to understand you.

You say you will not mention names, yet you mention it. It is obvious who is on your mind.

And please do not think you know neo or silver. If you were more communicative with people and tried to understand them you could understand them better and not draw such conclusions.

I was making a comment on weak faith - or faith perverted by the world - and on being drawn away from biblical truth by the circumstances around us. The pastor in the recording spoke of the same things.

In the case of someone living in a country hostile to Christianity - where being a Christian can bring death or imprisonment - I understand deviances from biblical faith and these don't bother me.

As for "You say you will not mention names", the humor was obviously lost on you! This may be because we are from very different cultures. In any event, I was using a device - a technique - in humor, similar to the one here:

Thanks for letting me test drive your car! I have good news and bad news! The good news is, the airbag in your new Mercedes works great!...

Do you see it?

FL

[PaulSacramento]

Look at your post FL and tell me what motivated you to write such a post?
Becuase what I think motivated you was your pride. Did you have fun writing that?
Tell me. I want to understand you.

You say you will not mention names, yet you mention it. It is obvious who is on your mind.

And please do not think you know neo or silver. If you were more communicative with people and tried to understand them you could understand them better and not draw such conclusions.

Oh I wouldn't take anything that FL writes THAT seriously Hanna.
He just likes to "read himself".
I think that every board needs their Pharisees as much as their "white washed" liberals.

[B. W.]

Hey, B.W. The sermon was a very quick English to me. Is this also how sermons look like?

He is speaking in what we call today, normal common man's English. So some of his expression may confuse those in other countries. He speaks with a Western Rancher English dialect. I am sure in your country you hear the same language with different dialects too! Think of it like that.

Case in point: I recently spent time speaking with a man from New Zealand. He was at first difficult to understand but I caught on as he spoke the common everyday language people use from that fine beautiful country. My wife and I visited some of my family in southwest Virginia over a year ago. My wife could not understand the appalachian dialect of English, I could and had to interpret! So New Zealand dialect was a bit easy to catch on fer mee...a s they both short of sound like a mumble of words to those not used to this kind of English.

What expression did the Pastor use that were hard to understand?
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[Silvertusk]

and listen to the Free Audio Sermon - Truth - posted April 2015 at... audio is from a 2004 sermon ...

I listened to the guy's sermon and if he had a church in my area, I'd attend. I like people who tell it like it is.

Unfortunately, I doubt someone like neo will be impressed by the sermon. Neo seems to be letting the world get to him. I don't blame him for that because he lives in a terribly repressive place and I would probably bend as well if I lived in Lahore.*

What is more surprising, is how a Christian living in a rich country like the UK can be shaken in his faith by some man-made idea like the multiverse. I won't mention any names here because he's a moderator and has tusks of silver.

FL

*There is an interesting play on words here...but I'll be politically correct for a change...

I have never accused you of subtlety FL - or tact for that matter. Well I certainly envy you because you seem to have got it all sorted in your faith. Everything sown up and no doubt. You are a lucky man and I sincerely mean that. Us other mere mortals whose minds are not as developed as yours have to struggle with our doubts. Is that a weakness on my part - probably. But here is the question. Who would I turn to for edification, encouragement and wisdom? I would hope my fellow Christian brothers. So all I am asking from people like you is to help me in my doubts with a real sense of Christian fellowship and love. If you cant do that or won't do that then that is fine. Stay silent and pray for me. But do not mock or ridicule.

As for your statement about Christians living in a rich country like the UK - there is a huge crisis of faith here from a different point of attack than vicious persecution. Secularism is a huge threat to our country. Churches across UK are emptying and people are turning from God. Our complete unfiltered access to massive atheistic modes of communication such as the internet and multiple channels of television and social media vastly expose us to the words and propaganda of the unbeliever. It is a different type of battle - but what is being fought for is exactly the same. Our souls.

[PaulSacramento]

and listen to the Free Audio Sermon - Truth - posted April 2015 at... audio is from a 2004 sermon ...

I listened to the guy's sermon and if he had a church in my area, I'd attend. I like people who tell it like it is.

Unfortunately, I doubt someone like neo will be impressed by the sermon. Neo seems to be letting the world get to him. I don't blame him for that because he lives in a terribly repressive place and I would probably bend as well if I lived in Lahore.*

What is more surprising, is how a Christian living in a rich country like the UK can be shaken in his faith by some man-made idea like the multiverse. I won't mention any names here because he's a moderator and has tusks of silver.

FL

*There is an interesting play on words here...but I'll be politically correct for a change...

I have never accused you of subtlety FL - or tact for that matter. Well I certainly envy you because you seem to have got it all sorted in your faith. Everything sown up and no doubt. You are a lucky man and I sincerely mean that. Us other mere mortals whose minds are not as developed as yours have to struggle with our doubts. Is that a weakness on my part - probably. But here is the question. Who would I turn to for edification, encouragement and wisdom? I would hope my fellow Christian brothers. So all I am asking from people like you is to help me in my doubts with a real sense of Christian fellowship and love. If you cant do that or won't do that then that is fine. Stay silent and pray for me. But do not mock or ridicule.

As for your statement about Christians living in a rich country like the UK - there is a huge crisis of faith here from a different point of attack than vicious persecution. Secularism is a huge threat to our country. Churches across UK are emptying and people are turning from God. Our complete unfiltered access to massive atheistic modes of communication such as the internet and multiple channels of television and social media vastly expose us to the words and propaganda of the unbeliever. It is a different type of battle - but what is being fought for is exactly the same. Our souls.

Take comfort my friend.
The history of Christianity is full of people that had doubts, many even became saints.
To doubt is natural, to question is correct.
Paul only believed AFTER an act of divine revelation.

We are here for you, to help with your doubts and concerns and to help strengthen ( in whatever way we can) you faith in Our Lord.
Just remember that it is in HIM that you have to have faith, in what HE DID and will do and NOT in Us.
Please understand that the Body of Christ, which is composed of ALL believers, is a hospital for sick people and NOT a museum of saints.
Do not hold Our Lord accountable for the behavior of us that need MORE Christ in our lives.

[1over137]

Hey, B.W. The sermon was a very quick English to me. Is this also how sermons look like?

He is speaking in what we call today, normal common man's English. So some of his expression may confuse those in other countries. He speaks with a Western Rancher English dialect. I am sure in your country you hear the same language with different dialects too! Think of it like that.

Case in point: I recently spent time speaking with a man from New Zealand. He was at first difficult to understand but I caught on as he spoke the common everyday language people use from that fine beautiful country. My wife and I visited some of my family in southwest Virginia over a year ago. My wife could not understand the appalachian dialect of English, I could and had to interpret! So New Zealand dialect was a bit easy to catch on fer mee...a s they both short of sound like a mumble of words to those not used to this kind of English.

What expression did the Pastor use that were hard to understand?

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I would expect a pastor to speak more calmly and slowlier. Maybe it's just my taste.
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[1over137]

Look at your post FL and tell me what motivated you to write such a post?
Becuase what I think motivated you was your pride. Did you have fun writing that?
Tell me. I want to understand you.

You say you will not mention names, yet you mention it. It is obvious who is on your mind.

And please do not think you know neo or silver. If you were more communicative with people and tried to understand them you could understand them better and not draw such conclusions.

I was making a comment on weak faith - or faith perverted by the world - and on being drawn away from biblical truth by the circumstances around us. The pastor in the recording spoke of the same things.

In the case of someone living in a country hostile to Christianity - where being a Christian can bring death or imprisonment - I understand deviances from biblical faith and these don't bother me.

As for "You say you will not mention names", the humor was obviously lost on you! This may be because we are from very different cultures. In any event, I was using a device - a technique - in humor, similar to the one here:

Thanks for letting me test drive your car! I have good news and bad news! The good news is, the airbag in your new Mercedes works great!...

Do you see it?

FL

You are stating quick assumptions about board members and comment on them. You put them in bad light. Is that ok?

[Storyteller]

I live in the UK too (whereabouts are you, btw, Silver?) and I absolutely agree. Numbers in our churches are diminishing, people are turning away from God. Religion is seen as folly. God? People scoff at God, the thought that there is a Creator, see it as the arrogance of man not wanting to accept that this is all just a cosmic accident.

We face different challenges here. To state a belief in God and admit to being a Christian is to invite ridicule and scorn. How can your God allow such evil? Why does He not come down and prove His existence? Do you still believe in Santa Claus?

As for doubts, I don`t see them as necessarily a bad thing. They can strengthen faith. Questions are good. I don`t think believers who have doubts should be ridiculed or be accused of having a weaker faith, or falling away. The Bible says there were those who doubted and they were the ones who perhaps ended up having the strongest faith. People who have doubts, myself included, should be encouraged and any doubts explored not looked down upon by others who seem more secure in their faith.

It is easy to hurt someone, to shake their faith with careless words. It`s easy to sit there, secure in your faith and dismiss those whose strength may not be as strong as yours. The real love and compassion comes in by reaching out to those and pulling them up not by being scornful.

I have plenty of doubts still. I am new to Scripture, I am still finding my way but I have faith in God and in Christ as my salvation. Does that make less of a Christian who is well versed in Scripture?

I may be wrong but I think the important thing here is to show love, respect, compassion and understanding. Not belittle someone who may be having a rough time and is looking for reassurance.