When Did Adam Live?

[Audie]

could you try using the quote function properly?

[RickD]

JLA,

When you quote someone else's text, please click use the Quote box above where you are posting.

1) Left click on your mouse, and scroll over the text you want to copy.

2) Click copy

3) click on the Quote box above, and paste the text you copied, in between the two sets of quote brackets. [ quote]paste text here[/quote]

[JLAfan2001]

1) Left click on your mouse, and scroll over the text you want to copy.

2) Click copy

3) click on the Quote box above, and paste the text you copied, in between the two sets of quote brackets.

Thanks.

[DBowling]

Why NOT have Adam and Eve Being the actual 1st people that God created?

I guess the primary reason is that I don't believe Scripture makes that claim anywhere.
And if Scripture doesn't make that claim, then I don't think I should be making claims for Scripture that it doesn't make for itself.

When people equate the authority of a tradition or interpretation with the authority of Scripture itself then two serious consequences can occur:
1. When a believer sees that science or history contradicts a particular tradition or interpretation then they can mistakenly believe that it also contradicts Scripture and this can weaken their faith in the accuracy and authority of Scripture.
2. Equating the accuracy of a tradition or interpretation with the accuracy of Scripture presents opponents of Scripture with any number of straw men to tear down as they attempt to demonstrate that Scripture is false.

My OP lays out some external indicators that Adam and Eve weren't the first humans (homo sapiens sapiens)
1. The internal evidence of Scripture and the external evidence of Mesopotamian archaeology and history both place the historical Adam in Mesopotamia around 4000 BC to 6000 BC. (I don't think it is an accident that the birth of civilization in Mesopotamia lines up with the existence of the historical Adam in Mesopotamia.)
2. Humans had populated the whole planet and migrated to remote locations such as Australia and the Americas prior to 10,000 BC.

There are also some indicators (please note I use the word 'indicator' not definitive proof) in Scripture that there were humans who were not descended from Adam and Eve. Some of those indicators are:
1. The famous dilemma of Cain's wife.
2. Cain building a city.
3. The Sons of God marrying daughters of men.
I don't claim that these internal Scriptural indicators in and of themselves are definitive proof, but they are indicators that can support a position that has other indicators that point in the same direction.

In Christ

[Storyteller]

"So murder and rape are not evil? They`re natural instincts for survival?"

Yes, they are. It happens all the time in the animal kingdom. You wouldn't consider that evil. Humans are animals, nothing more. We inherited those instincts from the other animals. Just because we have the illusion of conciousness and "morality", doesn't make them real. We made them up and they have no scientific evidence to their reality. They are just preferences and preferences are irrelevant in nature.

Does that mean I would like to be murdered? Obviously not but it doesn't matter what I want. Someone has the natural right to try to kill me and I have the natural right to defend myself. Whoever wins, has the natural right to live.

Consciousness isn`t an illusion though, is it?

We are self aware, why?

Are you self aware when you are dreaming?

How do you come up with these questions? And I say that with a smile.

I suppose not when I'm dreaming but then animals dream too. I wonder if self awareness is learnt? As far as I know babies aren't self aware either. I've never really thought about it tbh.

[Storyteller]

"It trancsend them."

Meant to say "it can't trancsend them."

"This is an example of something I dont think you have thought through.

The bible is made up of many writings of many different authors. Some of it is poetry. You propose that the poetry has been falsified? The talk of Babylon has been falsified?


You cant find a science text without error, and American high school books are terrible. So, every last thing in them has been "falsified" because you can identify some errors?

Further..whether or not "sin", (as defined, how?) "came into the world" by this means or that, whether or not one thinks it has religious meaning, sin is real enough."

The creation story was meant to be read as historical. That's what the writers meant to convey. If the creation account is wrong, what else is wrong? How can you tell?

You're an atheist and I'm an ex-christian. Don't tell me how the bible was meant to be read or written. I probably know more about it than you do.

"Are you self aware when you are dreaming?"

Dreaming is just the brains way of building new neurons by processing the days events to build new memories

So Audie can't challenge you? She is actually agnostic, not atheist, as far as I am aware too.
You tell her not to tell you how to read the bible yet its okay for you to come blazing in telling us we are all wrong?

Btw, have you ever read a book How to win friends and influence people? I would highly recommend it.

[JLAfan2001]

So Audie can't challenge you? She is actually agnostic, not atheist, as far as I am aware too.
You tell her not to tell you how to read the bible yet its okay for you to come blazing in telling us we are all wrong?

Btw, have you ever read a book How to win friends and influence people? I would highly recommend it.

Agnosticsim is a stupid position to hold. She may say that she doesn't know if god exists but I bet she lives as if he doesn't. Does she read the bible regulary, does she go to church, does she pray or preach? If not, what separates her from an atheist? Do you think your god would be happy with that position?

I come blazing in telling you all that you are wrong because you are. I have scientific evidence that there was no Adam & Eve. The fossil record and genetics refutes it. All you guys are doing is desperately scrambling to try and save this doctrine and it's quite plain, from the outsider's point of view, that it can't be saved. Maybe civilzation started in Mesopotamia around 6,000BC but I'm pretty sure language, art, symbolism and tool making was around long before then. They have recent findings that Neanderthals made art. How do you explain that if Adam was the first human endowed with god's image? Is morality the mark of god? I've already explained why it isn't. The better explaination is that they are all products of an enlarged brain due to evolution and natural selection.

Btw, I'm not here to make friends. Just to point out that christians are wrong in their beliefs.

[RickD]

JLA wrote:
Btw, I'm not here to make friends. Just to point out that christians are wrong in their beliefs.

Then I suggest you go find somewhere else to preach. Your statement, and your reason for being here is against forum rules.

But since I feel like being nice, I'm going to give you one more chance. I'm imposing a 1 week ban for you. What happens next is up to you. You can come back with a different attitude, or you can continue to try to change our minds.

While you are unable to post for a week, I suggest that you read over the board guidelines that you agreed to follow when you joined this forum.

Good day.

[Audie]

"So murder and rape are not evil? They`re natural instincts for survival?"

Yes, they are. It happens all the time in the animal kingdom. You wouldn't consider that evil. Humans are animals, nothing more. We inherited those instincts from the other animals. Just because we have the illusion of conciousness and "morality", doesn't make them real. We made them up and they have no scientific evidence to their reality. They are just preferences and preferences are irrelevant in nature.

Does that mean I would like to be murdered? Obviously not but it doesn't matter what I want. Someone has the natural right to try to kill me and I have the natural right to defend myself. Whoever wins, has the natural right to live.

Consciousness isn`t an illusion though, is it?

We are self aware, why?

Are you self aware when you are dreaming?

How do you come up with these questions? And I say that with a smile.

I suppose not when I'm dreaming but then animals dream too. I wonder if self awareness is learnt? As far as I know babies aren't self aware either. I've never really thought about it tbh.

Perhaps you, like I, have learned to be able to wake yourself up from a nightmare.
So that is a dreaming self awareness.

Last night, I was so annoyed with myself, dreaming, for letting something I value get stolen, but then consoled myself with the thought that it would still be there in the morning.

All without taking the next step, and taking control of the dream, something I find very hard to do. I wonder if there is some reason that its so hard.

Regarding babies, from the first fertilized cell, there is a a progression toward being aware. We all went thru it, yet none of us Im sure remember at all waht that awakening process was like.

[PaulSacramento]

I have scientific evidence that there was no Adam & Eve. The fossil record and genetics refutes it

Actually, this is not the case.
What genetics an fossil records prove is that there would be need MORE than just two people to account for the genetic diversity in humanity, not that there was never an Adam and Eve.
Context is everything.
Adam and Eve may very well have been the two VERY FIRST humans ( there always has to be a first) at a given point in time, in a given location.

[Audie]

So Audie can't challenge you? She is actually agnostic, not atheist, as far as I am aware too.
You tell her not to tell you how to read the bible yet its okay for you to come blazing in telling us we are all wrong?

Btw, have you ever read a book How to win friends and influence people? I would highly recommend it.

Agnosticsim is a stupid position to hold. She may say that she doesn't know if god exists but I bet she lives as if he doesn't. Does she read the bible regulary, does she go to church, does she pray or preach? If not, what separates her from an atheist? Do you think your god would be happy with that position?

I come blazing in telling you all that you are wrong because you are. I have scientific evidence that there was no Adam & Eve. The fossil record and genetics refutes it. All you guys are doing is desperately scrambling to try and save this doctrine and it's quite plain, from the outsider's point of view, that it can't be saved. Maybe civilzation started in Mesopotamia around 6,000BC but I'm pretty sure language, art, symbolism and tool making was around long before then. They have recent findings that Neanderthals made art. How do you explain that if Adam was the first human endowed with god's image? Is morality the mark of god? I've already explained why it isn't. The better explaination is that they are all products of an enlarged brain due to evolution and natural selection.

Btw, I'm not here to make friends. Just to point out that christians are wrong in their beliefs.

This kind of post is as distasteful to someone who values science, as yec and gappism must be to someone who values science or Christianity, or for that matter, both.

[supersonicthehedgehog]

I have scientific evidence that there was no Adam & Eve. The fossil record and genetics refutes it

Actually, this is not the case.
What genetics an fossil records prove is that there would be need MORE than just two people to account for the genetic diversity in humanity, not that there was never an Adam and Eve.
Context is everything.
Adam and Eve may very well have been the two VERY FIRST humans ( there always has to be a first) at a given point in time, in a given location.

Hi Paul,
I'm new here (You can call me SSH or Sonic).
Is JLA suggesting that all Christian believe in YEC? (I'm 16 and not very knowledgeable in creationism and apologetics)

[EssentialSacrifice]

Good day.

By golly that's the best Paul Harvey impersonation I've heard in a long time ! ... sorry, just sayin

[Jac3510]

Hi Paul,
I'm new here (You can call me SSH or Sonic).
Is JLA suggesting that all Christian believe in YEC? (I'm 16 and not very knowledgeable in creationism and apologetics)

I certainly hope not. I'm YEC, but I'm at the head of the line in pointing out that not only do all Christians not hold to YEC but that some (many/most?) of the most important theologians in church history were not YEC. There are important issues in the creationism debate, but they are strictly theological in nature and have absolutely zero impact on one's Christianity or on the validity of the Christian faith in general.

Btw, I'm not here to make friends. Just to point out that christians are wrong in their beliefs.

[RickD]

Good day.

By golly that's the best Paul Harvey impersonation I've heard in a long time ! ... sorry, just sayin

Wow, that's scary! That's exactly what I was thinking when I wrote it. I even read it back to myself in my best Paul Harvey voice. I guess demented great minds think alike!