Discussions on a ranges of philosophical issues including the nature of truth and reality, personal identity, mind-body theories, epistemology, justification of beliefs, argumentation and logic, philosophy of religion, free will and determinism, etc.
The universe has a beginning, so it needs a cause to bring it to existence; that cause is in concept the creator and operator of the universe and of everything with a beginning.
Ok, well, from my perspective it reads something more like this...
The universe has a beginning so it needs a creator to bring it into existence, and He has a cause for everything, most notably, everyone, that has a lot to do with love, right from the beginning..
Dear readers, have you been taking notice, that as usual folks here do not keep to the topic, but they love to uselessly loiter in diversionary gimmicks.
Your new here, huh ?
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran
Yrreg wrote:So, in particular addressing atheists, present your objections to the concept of God above, and the idea of causality, and also that the universe has a beginning.
I have no objection to the God you described above, I just don’t see any evidence of his existence.
As far as causality, I asked how are you defining it and have yet to receive an answer so after you give a definition I can state my objections (if any) on that one.
As far as the Universe having a beginning, the big bang is the beginning of the universe AS WE KNOW IT. The singular expanded to become the Universe. Science does not claim there was a point when nothing existed.
Yrreg wrote:Here is my concise proof of the existence of God as per concept above stated:
The universe has a beginning, so it needs a cause to bring it to existence; that cause is in concept the creator and operator of the universe and of everything with a beginning.
I thought the when the singular expanded, that brought the Universe into existence. Are you suggesting God created the singular?
Ken
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
For the love of grammar, please stop calling it a singular. It's a singularity.
Last warning. Next time I'm calling the grammar police.
John 5:24 24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
I thought the when the singular expanded, that brought the Universe into existence. Are you suggesting God created the singular-ity?
Just a thought, but yeah it was just His thought that created the singularity... I mean He created everything and had to start somewhere.
Also, i believe the singularity "inflated" from 360deg. reference point. Never was never will be an exact center to our universe. Unless of course you look at our world, which, so far, from our current deductions of any other "life form" searches... we may very well be the center of His universe.
Trust the past to God’s mercy, the present to God’s love, and the future to God’s providence. -St Augustine
I thought the when the singular expanded, that brought the Universe into existence. Are you suggesting God created the singular-ity?
Just a thought, but yeah it was just His thought that created the singularity... I mean He created everything and had to start somewhere.
Also, i believe the singularity "inflated" from 360deg. reference point. Never was never will be an exact center to our universe. Unless of course you look at our world, which, so far, from our current deductions of any other "life form" searches... we may very well be the center of His universe.
That`s what I have always thought. That God created the singularity by His thought.
God is light, right?
The Big Bang was light (and heat, and all the other things)
When we have a brilliant idea we often explain it as a flash of inspiration. The Big Bang has to be the ultimate flash of inspiration.
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran
It's always hard to know just what to say or how to define it, in regards to the creation, creative capabilities of God... I mean He thinks (wills it) and it happens ...
but I LOVE this ...
The Big Bang has to be the ultimate flash of inspiration.
... indeed, the ultimate flash of inspiration.
Trust the past to God’s mercy, the present to God’s love, and the future to God’s providence. -St Augustine
kenny wrote:
I thought the when the singular expanded, that brought the Universe into existence. Are you suggesting God created the singular?
ES wrote:
Just a thought, but yeah it was just His thought that created the singularity... I mean He created everything and had to start somewhere.
What's your explanation of the creation of the singularity ?
I think it's a bit of a "leap" to assume the singularity was created.
Ken
Kenny,
Why is it a leap? If the singularity wasn't created, then I can see only 2 other possibilities.
1) The singularity always existed
2) The singularity changed into a singularity from something else
As for #1, if the singularity had always existed, that would mean it had to always exist as a singularity. But something caused it to become what we know as the Big Bang. So, then we need to ask what caused it to change.
As for #2, we're at the same question as #1. What caused the singularity to change from what it was before, to a singularity?
John 5:24 24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
What's your explanation of the creation of the singularity ?
I think it's a bit of a "leap" to assume the singularity was created.
i can agree with Rick's post Ken. I'm of the mind that if the universe is expanding (working your way backwards) it must have had a start. I'm interested in what are you thoughts in regards to what that very beginning was and came from. I can easily wrap my mind around a Big Bang that got it's kick start and material from an all creative God.
What was your idea of the singularity's composition and how did it "explode" in to being the initial point of creation of everything we know (which is substantial) and have ?
Trust the past to God’s mercy, the present to God’s love, and the future to God’s providence. -St Augustine
And also Kenny, as I asked in my last post, you need to explain why it's a leap to assume the singularity was created. You have 3 possibilities.
1) The singularity always existed
2) The singularity changed into a singularity from something else
Or
3) The singularity was created as a singularity
It seems to me that #3, if true obviously points to a creator. And it seems that both #1 and #2, both point to a cause. Which ultimately points to a prime mover.
John 5:24 24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
RickD wrote:And also Kenny, as I asked in my last post, you need to explain why it's a leap to assume the singularity was created. You have 3 possibilities.
1) The singularity always existed
2) The singularity changed into a singularity from something else
Or
3) The singularity was created as a singularity
It seems to me that #3, if true obviously points to a creator. And it seems that both #1 and #2, both point to a cause. Which ultimately points to a prime mover.
I'll pick door #2. The simple answer is I don’t know, but let’s consider this possibility:
The Universe is expanding. Suppose after it expands to a certain extent it begins to contract due to some law of the Universe we are unfamiliar with. Once it contracts to a singularity it begins to expand again; and this cycle continues for eternity.
Now I don’t claim this to be true, I just made it up as a possibility of what someone could believe as an explanation for matter existing eternally. I'm sure if you think hard enough you can come up with a lot more possibilities other than the three you listed. I'm always skeptical when people put limits on the possibilities concerning the Universe.
Ken
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
