Progressive creation vs Theistic evolution

[RickD]

Maybe Audie should've specified "scientific" theory then.

There's a difference between a theory and a scientific theory.

Why would I assume Audie meant scientific theory, when she didn't say that?

Unless she holds to scientism...

[Audie]

Maybe Audie should've specified "scientific" theory then.

There's a difference between a theory and a scientific theory.

Correct. As well as I know that science and creationism are not exactly joined at the hip, I should have specified.

[Audie]

Scientifically speaking the "gap theory" is not a theory but, at best, a hypothesis.

Theory:
In science, an explanation or model that covers a substantial group of occurrences in nature and has been confirmed by a substantial number of experiments and observations. A theory is more general and better verified than a hypothesis.

Hypothesis:
a proposition, or set of propositions, set forth as an explanation for the occurrence of some specified group of phenomena, either asserted merely as a provisional conjecture to guide investigation (working hypothesis) or accepted as highly probable in the light of established facts

And what is a hypothesis when it has been falsified? Possibly a Defunctothesis?

[Storyteller]

Will do

I am in no rush to decide anything.

I suppose I kind of know what I believe, I`m just not sure what label (if any) to give to it.

I`m not sure that I think God created the universe in 6 24 hour days, I lean more towards Genesis explaining the order of events rather than a time scale. I can accept evolution up to a point but I`m not totally convinced by it.
I`m still confused by the difference between theistic evolution and progressive creationism. I read the article and I`m not really much clearer.
I`m thinking that as I study the Bible more and listen to God I will be drawn to what rings true for me.

I guess it`s just a little frustrating that although I have a strong faith and all I really need to know is that God loves me and that through Christ I am saved I can`t really offer any view on any details. Maybe it will come with time. I have to admit that there are several threads on here that when I read them they make sense to me, even if I don`t fully understand them. I did read somewhere that sometimes we just have to let our spirit understand things that our mind doesn`t. I think, one day, when I meet God, I will go "Ah! So that`s what I believe is called.

I am actually enjoying exploring all this, it`s fascinating, wonderous and exciting. Each step brings me closer to God but leaves me wanting to get even closer.

I wonder why you'd be spending your time trying to choose among religion-based theories? "Gap" is not even a theory, and I dont think the others qualify either.

Because I believe in God.

You will notice RD referred to a range of, yes, beliefs.

You surely would not study religious versions of math, geography, chemistry, etc, why make it the way to study geology and biology?

Understanding (gasp "secular") chemistry would not lead one away from belief in god, would it?

I`m not using them to study those things. I`m using them to study Creationism.

when I read them they make sense to me, even if I don`t fully understand them.

Sites like AIG are good at presenting material in a convincing, easy to understand way.
They mix in charts, graphs, scientific jargon, and factual material in quite a professional looking way.

That is, you know, the method of a con man. Mix in good verifiable material in a convincing way.

A person without a good background of knowledge is too easily swayed by a demagogue, snake oil salesman or a good pitch on any topic.

AIG is a team of professional liars. So are all of the creationist sites.
They take in many a person, dont let them take you too.

"They" won`t "take" me anywhere Audie. No-one can, or will, tell me what to believe. I believe in researching stuff idependently and coming to my own conclusions.
I`m sorry but I don`t see Creationist sites, or people who believe in it as liars. I see them as people looking for the truth. I believe God created the universe so it makes sense to, at least look at any evidence and ideas that are put forward. (No idea who AIG are, btw )

Spirituality and science are two different things to me and they don`t necessarily have to come into conflict, not for me anyway.

[/quote]

And, to add, I am exploring my beliefs here.
I am exploring what I believe. Not science.
Absolutely agree with the Big Bang theory, not totally convinced with evolution but don't discount it. I'm just exploring how everything I know fits in and where.

And no one can 'take' me Audie. God has that covered.

[Storyteller]

sorry guys, no idea why so many have posted. Can a mod delete the extra?

[RickD]

sorry guys, no idea why so many have posted. Can a mod delete the extra?

Done

[Storyteller]

ta muchly honey x

[Audie]

Will do

I am in no rush to decide anything.

I suppose I kind of know what I believe, I`m just not sure what label (if any) to give to it.

I`m not sure that I think God created the universe in 6 24 hour days, I lean more towards Genesis explaining the order of events rather than a time scale. I can accept evolution up to a point but I`m not totally convinced by it.
I`m still confused by the difference between theistic evolution and progressive creationism. I read the article and I`m not really much clearer.
I`m thinking that as I study the Bible more and listen to God I will be drawn to what rings true for me.

I guess it`s just a little frustrating that although I have a strong faith and all I really need to know is that God loves me and that through Christ I am saved I can`t really offer any view on any details. Maybe it will come with time. I have to admit that there are several threads on here that when I read them they make sense to me, even if I don`t fully understand them. I did read somewhere that sometimes we just have to let our spirit understand things that our mind doesn`t. I think, one day, when I meet God, I will go "Ah! So that`s what I believe is called.

I am actually enjoying exploring all this, it`s fascinating, wonderous and exciting. Each step brings me closer to God but leaves me wanting to get even closer.

I wonder why you'd be spending your time trying to choose among religion-based theories? "Gap" is not even a theory, and I dont think the others qualify either.

Because I believe in God.

You will notice RD referred to a range of, yes, beliefs.

You surely would not study religious versions of math, geography, chemistry, etc, why make it the way to study geology and biology?

Understanding (gasp "secular") chemistry would not lead one away from belief in god, would it?

I`m not using them to study those things. I`m using them to study Creationism.

when I read them they make sense to me, even if I don`t fully understand them.

Sites like AIG are good at presenting material in a convincing, easy to understand way.
They mix in charts, graphs, scientific jargon, and factual material in quite a professional looking way.

That is, you know, the method of a con man. Mix in good verifiable material in a convincing way.

A person without a good background of knowledge is too easily swayed by a demagogue, snake oil salesman or a good pitch on any topic.

AIG is a team of professional liars. So are all of the creationist sites.
They take in many a person, dont let them take you too.

"They" won`t "take" me anywhere Audie. No-one can, or will, tell me what to believe. I believe in researching stuff idependently and coming to my own conclusions.
I`m sorry but I don`t see Creationist sites, or people who believe in it as liars. I see them as people looking for the truth. I believe God created the universe so it makes sense to, at least look at any evidence and ideas that are put forward. (No idea who AIG are, btw )

Spirituality and science are two different things to me and they don`t necessarily have to come into conflict, not for me anyway.

And, to add, I am exploring my beliefs here.
I am exploring what I believe. Not science.
Absolutely agree with the Big Bang theory, not totally convinced with evolution but don't discount it. I'm just exploring how everything I know fits in and where.

And no one can 'take' me Audie. God has that covered.[/quote]

Thats cool, yec, oec, gap, te etc are beliefs.

I dont think I can decide what to believe. Thats not how my mind works.

[Storyteller]

So how do you believe what you believe?

I'm not sure it's a conscious decision anyway. I think you just go with what makes the most sense to you and what feels right. I may never decide on any of the beliefs but it would be nice to at least have a framework to refer to. It gets a tad monotonous (?) just saying I believe in God and that Christ is my salvation. I want to flesh it out a bit.

I want to understand.

[PaulSacramento]

Everyone decided what to believe in, there is no other way to believe in anything other than to decide to believe in it.
WHY or HOW a person decides is the issue.
Most decide to believe based on facts AND trust ( they trust the people supplying the facts and/or how they came to those facts).
But we ALL decide on what to believe.

[Audie]

Everyone decided what to believe in, there is no other way to believe in anything other than to decide to believe in it.
WHY or HOW a person decides is the issue.
Most decide to believe based on facts AND trust ( they trust the people supplying the facts and/or how they came to those facts).
But we ALL decide on what to believe.

[Audie]

So how do you believe what you believe?

I'm not sure it's a conscious decision anyway. I think you just go with what makes the most sense to you and what feels right. I may never decide on any of the beliefs but it would be nice to at least have a framework to refer to. It gets a tad monotonous (?) just saying I believe in God and that Christ is my salvation. I want to flesh it out a bit.

I want to understand.

And a lot of things are counterintuitive in math and science. So a person doesnt want to rely too much on feelings and what appears to make sense.

The framework to refer to is what one gets by study, obviously.


Deciding what one believes...
I know that my Mom loves me. I love her. We dont talk about it, we show it by our actions.

How do you think I came to believe what I believe in that regard?
I could no more just "decide" she loves me than I could choose or decide to think she doesnt. I could say it, but it wont be real.

No more than "deciding" that yes, water is wet, or that it is not.

[Storyteller]

So how do you believe what you believe?

I'm not sure it's a conscious decision anyway. I think you just go with what makes the most sense to you and what feels right. I may never decide on any of the beliefs but it would be nice to at least have a framework to refer to. It gets a tad monotonous (?) just saying I believe in God and that Christ is my salvation. I want to flesh it out a bit.

I want to understand.

And a lot of things are counterintuitive in math and science. So a person doesnt want to rely too much on feelings and what appears to make sense.

The framework to refer to is what one gets by study, obviously.


Deciding what one believes...
I know that my Mom loves me. I love her. We dont talk about it, we show it by our actions.

How do you think I came to believe what I believe in that regard?
I could no more just "decide" she loves me than I could choose or decide to think she doesnt. I could say it, but it wont be real.

No more than "deciding" that yes, water is wet, or that it is not.

Why do you believe in the feeling of love but you say it doesnt make sense to rely on feelings?
How can you study feelings?
We live by what we feel so what better way to decide to believe?

[PaulSacramento]

Everyone decided what to believe in, there is no other way to believe in anything other than to decide to believe in it.
WHY or HOW a person decides is the issue.
Most decide to believe based on facts AND trust ( they trust the people supplying the facts and/or how they came to those facts).
But we ALL decide on what to believe.

Not really:
de·cide
dəˈsīd/
verb
come to a resolution in the mind as a result of consideration.
"they decided to appoint someone else"
cause to come to a resolution.
"this business about the letter decided me"
make a choice from a number of alternatives.

[Audie]

So, you can decide that the sun is purple. Fits the definition.

The key word is "believe". "Decide" does not always apply to "believe".
Sometimes I do decide to believe. Do you always make a conscious choice, tho?


Notice how often the word "faith" occurs. "Opinion" and "suppose" are in there too.


be·lieve
bəˈlēv/
verb
1.
accept (something) as true; feel sure of the truth of.
"the superintendent believed Lancaster's story"
synonyms: be convinced by, trust, have confidence in, consider honest, consider truthful More
accept the statement of (someone) as true.
"he didn't believe her or didn't want to know"
have faith, especially religious faith.
"there are those on the fringes of the Church who do not really believe"
feel sure that (someone) is capable of a particular action.
"I wouldn't have believed it of Lois—what an extraordinary woman!"
2.
hold (something) as an opinion; think or suppose.