FL
Never had a good response to this
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Furstentum Liechtenstein
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Re: Never had a good response to this
You Christians are going to lose this chess game...again!
FL
FL
Hold everything lightly. If you don't, it will hurt when God pries your fingers loose as He takes it from you. -Corrie Ten Boom
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If they had a social gospel in the days of the prodigal son, somebody would have given him a bed and a sandwich and he never would have gone home.
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If they had a social gospel in the days of the prodigal son, somebody would have given him a bed and a sandwich and he never would have gone home.
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RickD
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Re: Never had a good response to this
Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:You Christians are going to lose this chess game...again!
FL
Confucius say, "me no rike praying chess with afiest. Me no rikie feces."
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
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EssentialSacrifice
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Re: Never had a good response to this
Lost in Space !
Trust the past to God’s mercy, the present to God’s love, and the future to God’s providence. -St Augustine
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RickD
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Re: Never had a good response to this
FL's quote:EssentialSacrifice wrote:Lost in Space !
Debating with an atheist is like playing chess with a monkey. No matter how good you are, the monkey will knock over all the pieces, defecate on the board and claim victory.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
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Kurieuo
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Re: Never had a good response to this
That's not really fair. They normally ignore many of your pieces are still standing while defecating.RickD wrote:FL's quote:EssentialSacrifice wrote:Lost in Space !
Debating with an atheist is like playing chess with a monkey. No matter how good you are, the monkey will knock over all the pieces, defecate on the board and claim victory.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)
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questioner22
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Re: Never had a good response to this
Ignorance is not just what you don't know. It's also what you won't know.
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EssentialSacrifice
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Re: Never had a good response to this
ignorance is not just what you don't know. It's also what you won't know
Mirror Mirror on the wall ...
It's good you're back Q22, these guys really can help with your questions, but don't take to well to the face palm. Did you have an opportunity to read the Paine link ?
Trust the past to God’s mercy, the present to God’s love, and the future to God’s providence. -St Augustine
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questioner22
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Re: Never had a good response to this
EssentialSacrifice - yes, I read the first link you posted, though not the second. Not sure what in particular you thought might be compelling from a Christian apologetics website about Paine. I wasn't exactly shocked they didn't embrace Paine's ideas.
My question is - did you read the Paine essay I originally posted? I'd love to be more condemning of you if you did not (and I doubt you did), but I was the same way when I was a Christian. The last thing I would have done is wasted time reading something written by someone who was 'lost'. If anything, I'd go to an apologist book or website and find what sounds like a good refutation of the argument. The problem with Christian apologetics - or rather the brilliance of Christian apologetics - is that they GIVE you the opposing viewpoint on a silver platter before tearing it down. But, they're not really ever giving you an accurate portrayal. It's skewed. Pick up The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins and read it - don't read a book by an apologist telling you what Dawkins thinks. Pick up Letter to a Christian Nation, or God is Not Great and see what these guys have to say. Someone a few years back asked me to read Tim Keller's Reason for God. I read it, as I'm open to any and all viewpoints (I frequently go to sleep listening to podcasts of sermons). Well written book, but his portrayal of the atheist viewpoint was way off. If as a Christian you want to know the other side of the argument - and let's be honest - most don't - then you have to break the umbilical cord between you and the apologist.
My question is - did you read the Paine essay I originally posted? I'd love to be more condemning of you if you did not (and I doubt you did), but I was the same way when I was a Christian. The last thing I would have done is wasted time reading something written by someone who was 'lost'. If anything, I'd go to an apologist book or website and find what sounds like a good refutation of the argument. The problem with Christian apologetics - or rather the brilliance of Christian apologetics - is that they GIVE you the opposing viewpoint on a silver platter before tearing it down. But, they're not really ever giving you an accurate portrayal. It's skewed. Pick up The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins and read it - don't read a book by an apologist telling you what Dawkins thinks. Pick up Letter to a Christian Nation, or God is Not Great and see what these guys have to say. Someone a few years back asked me to read Tim Keller's Reason for God. I read it, as I'm open to any and all viewpoints (I frequently go to sleep listening to podcasts of sermons). Well written book, but his portrayal of the atheist viewpoint was way off. If as a Christian you want to know the other side of the argument - and let's be honest - most don't - then you have to break the umbilical cord between you and the apologist.
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RickD
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Re: Never had a good response to this
Questioner,
FYI, there's no such thing as "when I was a Christian". Either you trusted Christ for salvation, and you're still a Christian. Or you never were a Christian.
FYI, there's no such thing as "when I was a Christian". Either you trusted Christ for salvation, and you're still a Christian. Or you never were a Christian.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
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questioner22
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Re: Never had a good response to this
Yeah, yeah...No True Scotsman...I get it. Let me say it again. I'll put it below as maybe it'll be more clear.
I
Don't
Care
If
You
Think
I
Was
Ever
A
True
Believer
Much like I don't care if you ever thought you were Superman when you were a kid.
I
Don't
Care
If
You
Think
I
Was
Ever
A
True
Believer
Much like I don't care if you ever thought you were Superman when you were a kid.
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RickD
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Re: Never had a good response to this
Did I say that I didn't think you were ever/are a believer? I just told you that you cannot be an ex-believer. If you trusted Christ for salvation(I have no idea if you ever have) then you ARE a believer. If you have ever trusted Christ for salvation, you are sealed by the Holy Spirit. You are guaranteed eternal life.questioner22 wrote:Yeah, yeah...No True Scotsman...I get it. Let me say it again. I'll put it below as maybe it'll be more clear.
I
Don't
Care
If
You
Think
I
Was
Ever
A
True
Believer
Much like I don't care if you ever thought you were Superman when you were a kid.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
-
EssentialSacrifice
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Re: Never had a good response to this
I didn't post any of the links, i think it was B.W., but found them illuminating in regards to Paine's real time situation and personal critiques from others who knew him...I'd love to be more condemning of you if you did not (and I doubt you did)
Anyway, condemn away young man, i read the first 12 or so paragraphs... I'm sorry, but I am, apparently, one of those bullet proof Christians. It doesn't matter what they say or why, I know and have experienced my God in heart and will never give Him away. I'm sorry you have, but there is Hope and Mercy available and will be for you and all until the end.
You look for experience that denies, I look for experience that enriches. We're on two very different paths. You won't care for this, but i hope for your return.
Trust the past to God’s mercy, the present to God’s love, and the future to God’s providence. -St Augustine
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1over137
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Re: Never had a good response to this
Quick reply button works correctly.
It is recommended when writing a longer post, to save it from time to time via Ctrl-C. If post gets lost, start new one and press Ctrl-V.
(Maybe the new phpbb 3.1 that I plan to move to will handle this)
It is recommended when writing a longer post, to save it from time to time via Ctrl-C. If post gets lost, start new one and press Ctrl-V.
(Maybe the new phpbb 3.1 that I plan to move to will handle this)
But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
-- 1 Thessalonians 5:21
For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
-- Philippians 1:6
#foreverinmyheart
-- 1 Thessalonians 5:21
For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
-- Philippians 1:6
#foreverinmyheart
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questioner22
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Re: Never had a good response to this
EssentialSacrifice - I fear when you say that you're a 'bullet proof Christian', you say it with a certain measure of pride. I hope to never be so dogmatic as to know I cannot possibly be wrong about something - anything. Socrates (heretic!) said something along the lines that true knowledge exists in knowing that you know nothing. I've long thought that with age, and wisdom, comes a weakening of dogma. Issues that when you're young seem SO black and white, become far less so as we get older IF we're open to the idea that we could be wrong. Understand that when you say "I know and have experienced God in my heart" that the Mormon, the Muslim, the Jehovah's Witness....all can say the same thing. I doubt you think they're all right, and yet if there's just one God, how is he sending such mixed messages. (Note: default answer is 'Satan')EssentialSacrifice wrote:Anyway, condemn away young man, i read the first 12 or so paragraphs... I'm sorry, but I am, apparently, one of those bullet proof Christians. It doesn't matter what they say or why, I know and have experienced my God in heart and will never give Him away. I'm sorry you have, but there is Hope and Mercy available and will be for you and all until the end.
You look for experience that denies, I look for experience that enriches. We're on two very different paths. You won't care for this, but i hope for your return.
I would never agree that I look for experience that denies - what I would say, and have said since the beginning of this journey, is that I pursue truth. It's of the utmost importance to me. If I'm wrong about anything at all, I want to know it. And when I find I'm wrong about something, I celebrate the fact that I just shed some untruth.
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RickD
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Re: Never had a good response to this
Questioner,
Are you going to get back on topic and address the question I asked you?
Are you going to get back on topic and address the question I asked you?
I explained that I believe Isaiah 1:4 is about Jesus. I wouldn't say it's solely related to his incarnation, If that's what you're getting at. Is someone promoting Isaiah 1:4 as something that you believe is wrong? If that's the case, post a link to it, and we can look at it.
As far as finding something that could make me think the bible is wrong, I've always been open to that possibility. I just haven't found anything that has made me think that yet. I'm always open to testing scripture, to see if it's reliable. I have no problem putting scripture up to scrutiny.
Do you have a specific issue in scripture that you want to discuss?
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony