I can't agree here jlay. This says people can't change, won't change to feel sorrow for their sin. I can't agree. with prayer all things are possile. Ezekiel 11:19jlay wrote: I didn't ask you if you can know the difference. I said, can you MAKE yourself "mean" it. How do you make yourself take it seriously? Do you clinch your teeth and squint? (being facetious) Can you make yourself feel grief? The answer is no. A person either feels sorrow or they don't.
Why would the angel counsel them to change, if they could not ?Revelation 3:14-
“And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: ‘The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God's creation. “‘I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth. For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing, not realizing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked. I counsel you to buy from me gold refined by fire, so that you may be rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself and the shame of your nakedness may not be seen, and salve to anoint your eyes, so that you may see.
But if not, if they don't change, feel remorse and do something about it...Revelation 3:15-16
but these are not of who I am speaking...I am speaking of those who can and will change...sincerely, after sinning and wanting to respond to His call either again or for the first time.
2 Chronicles 7:14....Acts 3:19....Ezekiel 18:21-23....Joel 2:13....Ezekiel 33:14-16....Luke 15:7 every one of these verses calls for men to amend their ways to be blameless in the eyes of the Lord. They would not be commanded so if they were not originally sinful and called to the light. They are describing people who sinned, cared not and then came clean....
re·pent 1 (rĭ-pĕnt′)ES wrote: repent is to feel sorry or remorseful
v. re·pent·ed, re·pent·ing, re·pents
1. To feel remorse, contrition, or self-reproach for what one has done or failed to do; be contrite: "
2. To feel such regret for past conduct as to change one's mind regarding it: repented of intemperate behavior. You'd better accept their offer before they repent.
3. To become a more moral or religious person as a result of remorse or contrition for one's sins.
v.tr.
1. To feel regret or self-reproach for: repent one's sins.
2. Archaic To cause (one or oneself) to feel remorse or regret: "And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth" (King James Bible).
I don't think my words are so far off here, do you ?
pen·anceES wrote: penance is an atonement, a reperation for an offense.
ˈpenəns/Submit
noun
1.
voluntary self-punishment inflicted as an outward expression of repentance for having done wrong.
"he had done public penance for those hasty words"
synonyms: atonement, expiation, self-punishment, self-mortification, self-abasement, amends; More
2.a Christian sacrament in which a member of the Church confesses sins to a priest and is given absolution.
Again my words aren't too far off, are they ?
.jlay wrote: would also ask you to do a NT word study on atonement
I would hope you mean the ultimate, essential sacrifice of Jesus for the sins of all men (NT)
atonement:
noun
1.satisfaction or reparation for a wrong or injury; amends.
2.(sometimes initial capital letter) Theology. the doctrine concerning the reconciliation of God and humankind, especially as accomplished through the life, suffering, and death of Christ.
3.Christian Science. the experience of humankind's unity with God exemplified by Jesus Christ.
4.Archaic. reconciliation; agreement.
Exodus 30:12-16
When you take the census of the people of Israel, then each shall give a ransom for his life to the Lord when you number them, that there be no plague among them when you number them. Each one who is numbered in the census shall give this: half a shekel according to the shekel of the sanctuary (the shekel is twenty gerahs), half a shekel as an offering to the Lord. Everyone who is numbered in the census, from twenty years old and upward, shall give the Lord's offering. The rich shall not give more, and the poor shall not give less, than the half shekel, when you give the Lord's offering to make atonement for your lives. You shall take the atonement money from the people of Israel and shall give it for the service of the tent of meeting, that it may bring the people of Israel to remembrance before the Lord, so as to make atonement for your lives.”
Leviticus 17:11
For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it for you on the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that makes atonement by the life.
1 Peter 2:24....Hebrews 12:24....1 Peter 3:18....Galatians 4:5 .... and many more defining atonement as reparation.(NT)
The point being jlay, I was just trying to explain to christian2 that his examples were of man's being bad not God's unconditional love, allowing for righteous indignation for man's sins. God loves us unconditionally but judges those, likewise, without their repentance.
That's all i meant to say. Apologies if my words were used out of context.