new study on nde's says they are real

[abelcainsbrother]

My biggest problem with athiesm is ... this is it... nothing after this life... I simply cannot fathom, knowing that there isn't anything else. How do you feel that way, defeatist in it's worst sense. Life is just too complex for me to believe that what goes on in my head won't go on after the body is done.

I suppose it's just me selfishly wanting more and not only finding what I have always believed to be true, before God found me, but now have someone to share it with who is, as it turns out, the Creator and wants to not only extend my existence forever, but wants and will supply an ongoing life with new and interesting events eternally.

Or, you die, it's lights out and .................................................................................................

NDE's aren't the evidence anyone needs to ascertian life after death, but they pretty darn well define the brain's ability to continue, and the brain is just the housing for the intellect that is physically then mentally spurred on by the soul and spirit of every person ever born, IMO.

I understand this is all debateable, all "in each and every man's mind alone" but there's no way this man can accept this life is it. I want more and I want the freedom too.

My biggest problem with atheism is putting my faith in what man says is true.I cannot put my faith in what man says is true.I don't understand how a lot of atheists look up to Dawkins,Hitchens,etc and sees them as hero's when everyone of them has been defeated by Christians.I just don't understand how they can seem so cool to atheists especially when compared to Jesus Christ,there is no way I could turn my back on what Jesus did for me,as Jesus is my hero.

I also don't like how smart scientifically they think they are when hardly any of what they believe has any evidence,logic or reason behind it.It is not appealing to me at all to nit-pick which science you agree with and which science you reject.Atheists think they have the truth but really have no evidence behind it,like they think.

I honestly believe certian atheists like to be played and fooled based on what they believe.

I also don't like it that no matter how much logic,reason and evidence for God you give them,they ignore it while overlooking the lack of evidence they have for the things they promote as truth.I value truth too much to be an atheist.

When I've brought up NDE's? They only believe the critics overlooking that it is agnostics that started this scientific study on NDE's,and that they are so convinced that they are real? They have funding for the 2nd scientific study on NDE's.This is ignored.

[bippy123]

Essential while nde's might not be absolute proof for the soul and after life , almost all the evidence points in this direction.

bippy, 100% here, I just meant that, like the Shroud, the "proof for the afterlife is in the life we have today being the sons of God and knowing through Him.

The Shroud the NDE's are both seismic movement in regards to the afterlife, but not as important as our faith and current relationship we have with our God, in this life that will lead to the kind of afterlife we will experience. My brother how I love your excitement it is so animated, contagious ! You're just great to be around.

AMEN essential, I could not fathom an afterlife without God's love in it. To me that is hell.

[bippy123]

My biggest problem with athiesm is ... this is it... nothing after this life... I simply cannot fathom, knowing that there isn't anything else. How do you feel that way, defeatist in it's worst sense. Life is just too complex for me to believe that what goes on in my head won't go on after the body is done.

I suppose it's just me selfishly wanting more and not only finding what I have always believed to be true, before God found me, but now have someone to share it with who is, as it turns out, the Creator and wants to not only extend my existence forever, but wants and will supply an ongoing life with new and interesting events eternally.

Or, you die, it's lights out and .................................................................................................

NDE's aren't the evidence anyone needs to ascertian life after death, but they pretty darn well define the brain's ability to continue, and the brain is just the housing for the intellect that is physically then mentally spurred on by the soul and spirit of every person ever born, IMO.

I understand this is all debateable, all "in each and every man's mind alone" but there's no way this man can accept this life is it. I want more and I want the freedom too.

My biggest problem with atheism is putting my faith in what man says is true.I cannot put my faith in what man says is true.I don't understand how a lot of atheists look up to Dawkins,Hitchens,etc and sees them as hero's when everyone of them has been defeated by Christians.I just don't understand how they can seem so cool to atheists especially when compared to Jesus Christ,there is no way I could turn my back on what Jesus did for me,as Jesus is my hero.

I also don't like how smart scientifically they think they are when hardly any of what they believe has any evidence,logic or reason behind it.It is not appealing to me at all to nit-pick which science you agree with and which science you reject.Atheists think they have the truth but really have no evidence behind it,like they think.

I honestly believe certian atheists like to be played and fooled based on what they believe.

I also don't like it that no matter how much logic,reason and evidence for God you give them,they ignore it while overlooking the lack of evidence they have for the things they promote as truth.I value truth too much to be an atheist.

When I've brought up NDE's? They only believe the critics overlooking that it is agnostics that started this scientific study on NDE's,and that they are so convinced that they are real? They have funding for the 2nd scientific study on NDE's.This is ignored.

Yep,and the Agnostic your talking about abel is doctor sam parnia. I don't envy him at all because he has to walk a fine line to get his studies published that favor materialism when in fact everyone that been researching his work knows that he has turned the corner on nde's.
He's come a long way from the guy that infuriated Alex tsakiris 4 years when he said that nde's in his personal opinion were hallucinations. He now doesn't believe this and it's the evidence itself that swayed him.

Now he's being called a loon by atheists .
Like u said abel, with atheists it's not about the evidence. It never was .

Aware 2 will start in the near future and even if a patient does see the signs with the numbers atheists will keep denying the obvious.

[Morny]

Morny wrote:
No. Atheism involves the absence of a belief, e.g., in Zeus.

Actually, atheism is a belief that God or gods don't exist. It's not an absence of belief.

And some atheists can be pretty religious about that belief. Some atheists even proselytize more than those that believe in God.

You also are conflating the concept of atheism with atheists who do/say things you don't like.

[RickD]

Morny wrote:
No. Atheism involves the absence of a belief, e.g., in Zeus.

Actually, atheism is a belief that God or gods don't exist. It's not an absence of belief.

And some atheists can be pretty religious about that belief. Some atheists even proselytize more than those that believe in God.

You also are conflating the concept of atheism with atheists who do/say things you don't like.

It has nothing to do with what I like or don't like. It's about the meaning of atheism, and atheists trying to claim atheism isn't a belief system.

Atheism is a worldview and belief system just like theism.

[bippy123]

Morny wrote:
No. Atheism involves the absence of a belief, e.g., in Zeus.

Actually, atheism is a belief that God or gods don't exist. It's not an absence of belief.

And some atheists can be pretty religious about that belief. Some atheists even proselytize more than those that believe in God.

You also are conflating the concept of atheism with atheists who do/say things you don't like.

It has nothing to do with what I like or don't like. It's about the meaning of atheism, and atheists trying to claim atheism isn't a belief system.

Atheism is a worldview and belief system just like theism.

This is the key Rick , and they can make all the equivocations with words that they want to , but in the end we can all see the bias that they project in the way they filter evidence against atheism and how they react to evidence for atheism .
David Koresh would have loved people like morny very much .

[SoCalExile]

Atheists can keep shouting that that atheism isn't a religion and that they have no faith , but they don't act that way .

Atheism is a religion, like "OFF" is a TV station.

Except "there is no God/gods" is an affirmation. A closer analogy is to say that anarchy is the lack of a political position (which it isn't).

[PaulSacramento]

Atheists can keep shouting that that atheism isn't a religion and that they have no faith , but they don't act that way .

Atheism is a religion, like "OFF" is a TV station.

Actually, no.
Atheism is, more correctly, an ideology.
The definition of ideology is the set of ideas and beliefs that are important to a person, ...

That said, ANY view on the existence ( or non) of the supernatural is a religion to a certain degree [...]

So not believing in Zeus is a religion.

[...] BUT religion in the strict sense requires worship of some sort.

OK. Another reason not to call atheism a religion.

I think atheism CAN be a religion to some in this regard:
a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance.

No. Atheism involves the absence of a belief, e.g., in Zeus.

Atheism is a religion like not collecting coins is a hobby.

You're conflating the concept of atheism with actual non-Christian religions, who also disagree, at a minimum, with your view on the nature of Jesus Christ.

Or you could simply actually READ what I posted which clearly states that in the orthodox and traditional sense of the word religion, atheism certianly isn't one BUT that in the modern sense, it may be viewed as one.
Modern sense being:
a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance.

Dawkins and such can be viewed as having made Atheism their religion under that definition.

[RickD]

Atheists can keep shouting that that atheism isn't a religion and that they have no faith , but they don't act that way .

Atheism is a religion, like "OFF" is a TV station.

Except "there is no God/gods" is an affirmation. A closer analogy is to say that anarchy is the lack of a political position (which it isn't).

Exactly.

[bippy123]

I was looking for the article in which an atheist writer in a major atheist publication wrote that ndes give strong enough evidence for a soul and afterlife that his fellow atheists would be wise to start trying to explain them through naturalistic means .
This is why most atheists completely shut down when trying to argue against nde's .
This is just one of many reasons why nde's are such powerful evidence against one of the major legs that atheism tries to stand on and that's materialism.this is also why proponents of nde's are having a field day quite a field day with atheists on nde's .

http://www.garyhabermas.com/articles/Bi ... -shift.htm

In an article in The Humanist, Beloff argued that the evidence is strong enough that even humanists should admit survival after death and try to interpret it in naturalistic terms. Perhaps this signals a new shift in attitude on this subject. Beloff stated that the evidence points to a "dualistic world where mind or spirit has an existence separate from the world of material things." He admitted that this could "present a challenge to Humanism as profound in its own way as that which Darwinian Evolution did to Christianity a century ago." Yet, he added, naturalists "cannot afford to close our minds . . . to the possibility of some kind of survival."36

[PaulSacramento]

I think that people that TRULY look into this ( and the shroud for example) and are intelligent enough and not intimidated by others, they see that there is something there that needs to be addressed and not dismissed.
The reality is that science is all about looking for answers and following the evidence where it leads, no matter the outcome and regardless of an pre-determined mindset.

[Morny]

Morny wrote:
No. Atheism involves the absence of a belief, e.g., in Zeus.

Actually, atheism is a belief that God or gods don't exist. It's not an absence of belief.

And some atheists can be pretty religious about that belief. Some atheists even proselytize more than those that believe in God.

You also are conflating the concept of atheism with atheists who do/say things you don't like.

It has nothing to do with what I like or don't like. It's about the meaning of atheism, and atheists trying to claim atheism isn't a belief system.

Then why did you bring up what atheists do that irritate you?

Atheism is a worldview and belief system just like theism.

Humanism is a worldview, a belief in ideas about human value. Atheism isn't a belief in anything. Is your non-belief in Zeus a worldview? In the tooth fairy? In Ahura Mazda? Atheists agree with you on an uncountable number of similar such non-beliefs, except for one.

I'm not an atheist, but I object to misconceptions about them. And as I've said before, I actually spend more time objecting to misconceptions about Christians, but not here, because you guys do a much better job of that amongst yourselves.

[bippy123]

I'm not sure if I posted this here but I'll do it again just in case I didnt.
Even william lane craig is starting to use nde's in some of his appologetics arguments .
Here here talks about doctor eben Alexanders nde. He also talks about dualism and the self, but he also talks about atheist philosopher Thomas nagle who also talks about the powerful evidence for consciousness . Nagle knows about the strong evidences from nde's but is still an atheist cause he doesn't want there to be a God .
https://youtu.be/SDV2EgVC8KI

[bippy123]

Morny wrote:
No. Atheism involves the absence of a belief, e.g., in Zeus.

Actually, atheism is a belief that God or gods don't exist. It's not an absence of belief.

And some atheists can be pretty religious about that belief. Some atheists even proselytize more than those that believe in God.

You also are conflating the concept of atheism with atheists who do/say things you don't like.

It has nothing to do with what I like or don't like. It's about the meaning of atheism, and atheists trying to claim atheism isn't a belief system.

Then why did you bring up what atheists do that irritate you?

Atheism is a worldview and belief system just like theism.

Humanism is a worldview, a belief in ideas about human value. Atheism isn't a belief in anything. Is your non-belief in Zeus a worldview? In the tooth fairy? In Ahura Mazda? Atheists agree with you on an uncountable number of similar such non-beliefs, except for one.

I'm not an atheist, but I object to misconceptions about them. And as I've said before, I actually spend more time objecting to misconceptions about Christians, but not here, because you guys do a much better job of that amongst yourselves.

OK morn what is your view on nde's ?

As far as non belief in something yes atheism is a belief in something precisely because they will dogmatic ally deny any evidence for God no matter how good or bad it is. You bringing up Zeus and such simply doesn't deal with the point we make about atheizm.

If someone didn't believe in the existence of strawberries even though there is strong evidence for strawberries then that persons disbelief is not only a religious belief , it's also an irrational cult.

Simply playing semantics with words won't help you to wiggle put of this point.

And while we are at it what is your worldview ?

[PaulSacramento]

You know what, I get a bit frustrated when someone says that atheism is not a belief in anything when EVERYTHING we think about is a type of belief.
Non-belief doesn't exists, what you are saying is that you don't believe in something, which means that you believe that something doesn't exist.
Atheist believe that there is no proof, no evidence for god(s) so they state that they do not believe in god(s) and that is a correct statement as far as it goes BUT it is not a equal an atheist NOT believing in anything ot atheism not being a belief in anything.
Not, I may just be doing a semantics rant here, but the reality is to NOT believe in something is to believe in something else.

Perhaps correctly defined, atheism is the belief that god(s) do not exist BUT modern atheists dislike that because they WANT it to NOT be a belief system but the sheer reality is that everything we know and agree with ( or disagree) is based on what we BELIEVE to be true or false.

In short, ALL is a belief system.