Interesting video I happened upon this morning

[abelcainsbrother]

The evidence points to God being a cause.We have evidence and logic on our side to say God is the cause of the universe.You who reject God have no evidence that you can have a universe without a cause,you can only ignore the evidence staring you in the face and believe by blind faith that science will one day produce evidence that shows you don't have to have a cause.You must ignore evidence,logic and reason to believe no cause is needed.

But it gets worse for atheists and agnostics because they have no evidence that would lead anybody to believe that you could have this universe without a creator.You can deny a creator but you still have no evidence or reason to believe you can have this universe without a creator.

A person can choose to believe anything they choose to and ignore the evidence but that just means they live by imagination.There has been no science come out so far that contradicts God' s word so what makes atheists and agnostics think it will in the future?Science is only confirming God' s word true as time goes on and man makes discoveries about the universe and nature.This is all ignored in order to believe that you can have this universe without a creator or a cause.

[Kenny]

How do you know immaterial exist? Let alone having the ability to create?

Ken

As for the immaterial, Plato logically deduced it's existence, ironically, since logic is itself immaterial.

Take the concept (or essence, in Platonic terms) of triangles. No matter what, three straight lines connected in such a way that the angles where they meet adds up to 180* is a triangle. You cannot have a 4 sided triangle; and renaming a square or circle a triangle doesn't change the essence of what we currently refer to as triangles. Color, the straightness or fuzziness of the lines doesn't change the essence of triangularity. If we erase all the material triangles in the cosmos, it does not eliminate the essence of triangularity, because triangularity is immaterial. The same goes for the essences of logic, intellect, justice, philosophy, etc.

As far as intelligence, Final Causes that we see in nature, the Big Bang/singularly, etc. logically demand it.

Shapes and colors do not exist by themselves; they are simply descriptive labels we attach to material things that DO exist. If I am referring to an orange basketball, it is not a sphere, it is not an orange, it is a basketball. Further description of said basketball is orange, and spheral. Again; how do you know immaterial exists?

Ken

[Kenny]

You're dangerously close to a science-of-the-gaps argument there

Follow this logic for a moment:

1: The universe is material, and materialistic science has shown it to have a beginning.

Okay

2: Having a beginning, it must have a cause.

Yes! That would be the singularity that expanded to become the Universe as we know it.

3: Since the material universe began, it's cause logically cannot be material, but immaterial.

No, the Singularity was material

4. Material science, by definition, ignores the immaterial

Not ignores; science does not recognize the existence of immaterial. If something exists, science calls it material.

5. Thus material science cannot study God, only His material creation.

that's the religious explanation; the scientific explanation would be he doesn't exist.

Materialist scientists have been trying to find material evidence for a eternal universe for a long time. Einstein tried to cover up the fact that his research showed it had a beginning. The material evidence is clear.

Oh so not Einstein is involved in the conspiracy? And you know this how?

Ken

[Kenny]

The evidence points to God being a cause.We have evidence and logic on our side to say God is the cause of the universe.You who reject God have no evidence that you can have a universe without a cause,you can only ignore the evidence staring you in the face and believe by blind faith that science will one day produce evidence that shows you don't have to have a cause.You must ignore evidence,logic and reason to believe no cause is needed.

But it gets worse for atheists and agnostics because they have no evidence that would lead anybody to believe that you could have this universe without a creator.You can deny a creator but you still have no evidence or reason to believe you can have this universe without a creator.

A person can choose to believe anything they choose to and ignore the evidence but that just means they live by imagination.There has been no science come out so far that contradicts God' s word so what makes atheists and agnostics think it will in the future?Science is only confirming God' s word true as time goes on and man makes discoveries about the universe and nature.This is all ignored in order to believe that you can have this universe without a creator or a cause.

If someone had scientific evidence that points to an intelligent creator of the Universe, that person would be world famous. Obviously such evidence doesn't exist

Ken

[abelcainsbrother]

The evidence points to God being a cause.We have evidence and logic on our side to say God is the cause of the universe.You who reject God have no evidence that you can have a universe without a cause,you can only ignore the evidence staring you in the face and believe by blind faith that science will one day produce evidence that shows you don't have to have a cause.You must ignore evidence,logic and reason to believe no cause is needed.

But it gets worse for atheists and agnostics because they have no evidence that would lead anybody to believe that you could have this universe without a creator.You can deny a creator but you still have no evidence or reason to believe you can have this universe without a creator.

A person can choose to believe anything they choose to and ignore the evidence but that just means they live by imagination.There has been no science come out so far that contradicts God' s word so what makes atheists and agnostics think it will in the future?Science is only confirming God' s word true as time goes on and man makes discoveries about the universe and nature.This is all ignored in order to believe that you can have this universe without a creator or a cause.

If someone had scientific evidence that points to an intelligent creator of the Universe, that person would be world famous. Obviously such evidence doesn't exist

Ken

You're just ignoring it like I said.The evidence is not hard to find.Even if you reject it? You still have nothing to think the universe could create itself with no cause except imagination,like I said.

[Kenny]

You're just ignoring it like I said.The evidence is not hard to find.Even if you reject it?

Thus far, I've ignored or rejected nothing because you've presented no evidence. Now if the evidence is not hard to find, present the evidence!

You still have nothing to think the universe could create itself with no cause except imagination,like I said.

I never said anything about the Universe creating itself with no cause; that's something you brought to the table not me. Again; where is your evidence?

Ken

[abelcainsbrother]

You're just ignoring it like I said.The evidence is not hard to find.Even if you reject it?

Thus far, I've ignored or rejected nothing because you've presented no evidence. Now if the evidence is not hard to find, present the evidence!

You still have nothing to think the universe could create itself with no cause except imagination,like I said.

I never said anything about the Universe creating itself with no cause; that's something you brought to the table not me. Again; where is your evidence?

Ken

I don't have to give evidence.You do,because I have a cause for the universe and you don't.I said you have no cause or anything to think this universe could be created without God,but you think it could,but have nothing to base it on just imagination.

I don't have to prove God is real because he is the cause for this universe and you have no science or anything to think it could be created without God.I know this won't convince you but you still have no cause for the universe.Nothing comes into existence without a cause.But even if you think you don't think you need a cause? You still have nothing but imagination that this universe could be created without God.


I have a creator for the universe and this is evidence because nothing comes into existence without a cause or creator.

I will give one piece of evidence for the creator the God of the bible being the creator.

The bible said the universe had a beginning and this is backed up by rigorous scientific testing and evidence for the big bang,both the science behind the big bang and the bible say this,which is evidence.

Now you give evidence for why you think this universe can exist without a cause or creator.

[RickD]

SoCalExile wrote:
5. Thus material science cannot study God, only His material creation.

Ken wrote:
that's the religious explanation; the scientific explanation would be he doesn't exist.

[PaulSacramento]

Science, by its very definition, applies to ONLY that which can be observed in someway, in nature, either directly or indirectly.
Anything outside of the observable realm does NOT apply to science and you will NOT find ANY decent scientist making a call on it OTHER than voicing a PERSONAL opinion, which is of course, NOT science but opinion.

That is why no scientist will make ANY comment in regards to proving or disproving God.

The only scientific explanation that applies to God is:
Science does not know.

[Kenny]

You're just ignoring it like I said.The evidence is not hard to find.Even if you reject it?

Thus far, I've ignored or rejected nothing because you've presented no evidence. Now if the evidence is not hard to find, present the evidence!

You still have nothing to think the universe could create itself with no cause except imagination,like I said.

I never said anything about the Universe creating itself with no cause; that's something you brought to the table not me. Again; where is your evidence?

Ken[/quote]

I don't have to give evidence.You do

If you are going to claim I am ignoring evidence, you need to provide the evidence I am ignoring; otherwise our claim has no merit.

I said you have no cause or anything to think this universe could be created without God,but you think it could.

I never said he Universe was created.

K

[abelcainsbrother]

You're just ignoring it like I said.The evidence is not hard to find.Even if you reject it?

Thus far, I've ignored or rejected nothing because you've presented no evidence. Now if the evidence is not hard to find, present the evidence!

You still have nothing to think the universe could create itself with no cause except imagination,like I said.

I never said anything about the Universe creating itself with no cause; that's something you brought to the table not me. Again; where is your evidence?

Ken

I don't have to give evidence.You do

If you are going to claim I am ignoring evidence, you need to provide the evidence I am ignoring; otherwise our claim has no merit.

I said you have no cause or anything to think this universe could be created without God,but you think it could.

I never said he Universe was created.

K[/quote]

I have given evidence.It is you that can't and won't.This is not a one-sided thing where I show how the evidence points to the God of the bible being the cause and creator and you just ignore it.It is you that has not given any evidence or reason to reject God as the cause or creator.You reject God,but for absolutely no reason,no evidence,no substantiated science,just an opinion based on imagination.

[Kenny]

I have given evidence.It is you that can't and won't.This is not a one-sided thing where I show how the evidence points to the God of the bible being the cause and creator and you just ignore it.It is you that has not given any evidence or reason to reject God as the cause or creator.You reject God,but for absolutely no reason,no evidence,no substantiated science,just an opinion based on imagination.

If you've given evidence, I must have missed it. Please give me the date and time of the post you presented this evidence on and I will go back and read it.

Ken

[abelcainsbrother]

I have given evidence.It is you that can't and won't.This is not a one-sided thing where I show how the evidence points to the God of the bible being the cause and creator and you just ignore it.It is you that has not given any evidence or reason to reject God as the cause or creator.You reject God,but for absolutely no reason,no evidence,no substantiated science,just an opinion based on imagination.

If you've given evidence, I must have missed it. Please give me the date and time of the post you presented this evidence on and I will go back and read it.

Ken

Just above I gave logic,reason and evidence that points to God being a cause or creator for the universe.You ignored it and are still going on imagination.It is not our job to prove God exists but I've given logic,reason and a little evidence.You have not and have nothing to go on except imagination to think we could have this universe any other way than God or without God.This applies to all atheists and agnostics who reject God even atheist philosopher's.They have nothing to go on except imagination to think we could have this universe without a cause or creator.

This means on judgment day you will have no excuse for rejecting God as a cause or creator for this universe.You were given logic,reason and evidence that points to God and you rejected it for no reason.

Want it dead or alive.
https://m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=eVztXwJI4lI

[Kenny]

I have given evidence.It is you that can't and won't.This is not a one-sided thing where I show how the evidence points to the God of the bible being the cause and creator and you just ignore it.It is you that has not given any evidence or reason to reject God as the cause or creator.You reject God,but for absolutely no reason,no evidence,no substantiated science,just an opinion based on imagination.

If you've given evidence, I must have missed it. Please give me the date and time of the post you presented this evidence on and I will go back and read it.

Ken

Just above I gave logic,reason and evidence that points to God being a cause or creator for the universe.

Just above? The last post you made, all you did was claim to give evidence. Again; please give the date and time of this post so I can go back and read it

Ken

[abelcainsbrother]

I have given evidence.It is you that can't and won't.This is not a one-sided thing where I show how the evidence points to the God of the bible being the cause and creator and you just ignore it.It is you that has not given any evidence or reason to reject God as the cause or creator.You reject God,but for absolutely no reason,no evidence,no substantiated science,just an opinion based on imagination.

If you've given evidence, I must have missed it. Please give me the date and time of the post you presented this evidence on and I will go back and read it.

Ken

Just above I gave logic,reason and evidence that points to God being a cause or creator for the universe.

Just above? The last post you made, all you did was claim to give evidence. Again; please give the date and time of this post so I can go back and read it

Ken

I pointed out both science behind the big bang and the bible said the universe had a beginning,this is evidence the bible is true.It is you that have not given any evidence or reason but yet reject mine.I gave logic,reason and evidence for God,first there is a cause for everything that comes into existence,this is logical and God is a cause.

You reject this but have nothing to go on in order to deny a creator or cause for the universe yet you still choose to defy logic,reason or evidence to do so.How can you defy logic,reason and evidence in order to deny God as a creator or cause for the universe? What causes you to deny God and imagine it could happen some other way?

It is logical to believe God created this universe and science points to a God creating it.Not only does both the bible and science say the universe had a beginning but also both the bible and science say the universe has an ending also.

Hebrews 1:10-11 "And,Thou,Lord,In the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; And the heavens are the work of thine hands:They shall perish; But thou remainest; And they all shall wax old as doth a garment."
So both science and the bible say the universe has an ending.This is evidence that God's word is true.