Not meaning anything rude here, but... seriously?Storyteller wrote:Why not?Audie wrote:Oh, you know, some try the hellfire and brimstone thing, others try the "love" thing, some try the "philosophy-prove-god" thing.UsagiTsukino wrote:I think the bigger problem is the fact that people are just using fear to get people to accepted God and not love
Some discredit anything they say with nutty beliefs they promote.
A guy talks about how he saw a werewolf and some chubacabre, who will believe he saw a flying saucer?
The Moslems dont scare me with their promise that I will hang by my hair in eternal fire for not covering my head in public.
Audie wrote:The "problem" with Christianity, if problem it is, is that its not very believable.
Is secularism spreading?
-
- Ultimate Member
- Posts: 3502
- Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2014 6:41 am
- Christian: No
- Sex: Female
- Creation Position: I don't believe in creation
- Location: USA
Re: Is secularism spreading?
- Storyteller
- Ultimate Member
- Posts: 3059
- Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:54 pm
- Christian: No
- Sex: Female
- Creation Position: Undecided
- Location: UK
Re: Is secularism spreading?
Yes, seriously.
I believe.
It's totally believeable to me.
I believe.
It's totally believeable to me.
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran
- Kurieuo
- Honored Member
- Posts: 10038
- Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2004 6:25 am
- Christian: Yes
- Sex: Male
- Creation Position: Progressive Creationist
- Location: Qld, Australia
Re: Is secularism spreading?
You're so unbelievable.Audie wrote:Oh, you know, some try the hellfire and brimstone thing, others try the "love" thing, some try the "philosophy-prove-god" thing.UsagiTsukino wrote:I think the bigger problem is the fact that people are just using fear to get people to accepted God and not love
Some discredit anything they say with nutty beliefs they promote.
A guy talks about how he saw a werewolf and some chubacabre, who will believe he saw a flying saucer?
The Moslems dont scare me with their promise that I will hang by my hair in eternal fire for not covering my head in public.
The "problem" with Christianity, if problem it is, is that its not very believable.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)
-
- Ultimate Member
- Posts: 3755
- Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2014 1:17 pm
- Christian: No
- Sex: Male
- Creation Position: I don't believe in creation
Re: Is secularism spreading?
Fear is a very effective tool. The thread of eternal torture via Hell fire was the most difficult thing to get past when I lost my faith. Love was easy; I was capable of love myself! But hell fire..... Talkin about scared straight!UsagiTsukino wrote:I think the bigger problem is the fact that people are just using fear to get people to accepted God and not love
Ken
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
- UsagiTsukino
- Valued Member
- Posts: 360
- Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:10 am
- Christian: Yes
- Sex: Female
- Creation Position: Theistic Evolution
Re: Is secularism spreading?
But shouldn't we be able to speak about both God's love and why we need it and not scare people because it was fear not love that bought them to godKenny wrote:Fear is a very effective tool. The thread of eternal torture via Hell fire was the most difficult thing to get past when I lost my faith. Love was easy; I was capable of love myself! But hell fire..... Talkin about scared straight!UsagiTsukino wrote:I think the bigger problem is the fact that people are just using fear to get people to accepted God and not love
Ken
- Storyteller
- Ultimate Member
- Posts: 3059
- Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:54 pm
- Christian: No
- Sex: Female
- Creation Position: Undecided
- Location: UK
Re: Is secularism spreading?
But your fear of Hell wasn`t enough for you to keep your faith. Maybe His love can tempt you back.Kenny wrote:Fear is a very effective tool. The thread of eternal torture via Hell fire was the most difficult thing to get past when I lost my faith. Love was easy; I was capable of love myself! But hell fire..... Talkin about scared straight!UsagiTsukino wrote:I think the bigger problem is the fact that people are just using fear to get people to accepted God and not love
Ken
Ken? I really, really can`t get my head around how and why you lost your faith. It just seems incredulous to me that someone would go from having faith and believing to turning away from God.
I don`t know how much of your story you want to share on the forum but do you think it`s possible you gave up on God too soon? Do you want to believe again?
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran
-
- Ultimate Member
- Posts: 3755
- Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2014 1:17 pm
- Christian: No
- Sex: Male
- Creation Position: I don't believe in creation
Re: Is secularism spreading?
I understand your point. But in my case, it wasn't love that brought me to God, but rather family tradition.UsagiTsukino wrote:But shouldn't we be able to speak about both God's love and why we need it and not scare people because it was fear not love that bought them to godKenny wrote:Fear is a very effective tool. The thread of eternal torture via Hell fire was the most difficult thing to get past when I lost my faith. Love was easy; I was capable of love myself! But hell fire..... Talkin about scared straight!UsagiTsukino wrote:I think the bigger problem is the fact that people are just using fear to get people to accepted God and not love
Ken
Ken
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
-
- Ultimate Member
- Posts: 3755
- Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2014 1:17 pm
- Christian: No
- Sex: Male
- Creation Position: I don't believe in creation
Re: Is secularism spreading?
Kenny wrote:Fear is a very effective tool. The thread of eternal torture via Hell fire was the most difficult thing to get past when I lost my faith. Love was easy; I was capable of love myself! But hell fire..... Talkin about scared straight!UsagiTsukino wrote:I think the bigger problem is the fact that people are just using fear to get people to accepted God and not love
Ken
I think it goes both ways; there are people on this forum who were atheists and converted to Christianity. That's a little difficult for me to get my head around.Storyteller wrote: But your fear of Hell wasn`t enough for you to keep your faith. Maybe His love can tempt you back.
Ken? I really, really can`t get my head around how and why you lost your faith. It just seems incredulous to me that someone would go from having faith and believing to turning away from God.
Is 4 years too soon? By the time I was 20 years old I had spent nearly 20% of my life searching for God. If God knows everything he would have known that after 4 years I would have given up. I would not call that too soon; perhaps others would.Storyteller wrote:[ I don`t know how much of your story you want to share on the forum but do you think it`s possible you gave up on God too soon?
[/quote]Storyteller wrote:[ Do you want to believe again?
For me it was never about wanting to believe or not wanting to believe but about what is the truth. I am convinced I know the truth.
Ken
Ken
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
- Storyteller
- Ultimate Member
- Posts: 3059
- Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:54 pm
- Christian: No
- Sex: Female
- Creation Position: Undecided
- Location: UK
Re: Is secularism spreading?
Maybe 20% wasn`t/isn`t enough.
Giving up after 4 years too soon? Perhaps not for you but for me it would be. I have been looking for God for as long as I can remember. I`ve been through all the doubt, all the is it too good to be true? Is it really possible? I never, ever gave up on finding God. If you give up on looking for Him you will never find Him, that`s a definite. If you keep looking, with all your heart and mind you will find Him. You just have to want to enough.
Truth. That`s a tough one because as convinced as you are that you know the truth, I am convinced that I do too. And guess what? One of us is wrong. Trouble is, how do we figure out who?
Do me a favour Ken? Keep looking, don`t close yourself off to the possibility that you might be wrong about this, don`t give up on God because it wasn`t an instant thing.
Try praying again? With an open heart.
Because this matters.
Giving up after 4 years too soon? Perhaps not for you but for me it would be. I have been looking for God for as long as I can remember. I`ve been through all the doubt, all the is it too good to be true? Is it really possible? I never, ever gave up on finding God. If you give up on looking for Him you will never find Him, that`s a definite. If you keep looking, with all your heart and mind you will find Him. You just have to want to enough.
Truth. That`s a tough one because as convinced as you are that you know the truth, I am convinced that I do too. And guess what? One of us is wrong. Trouble is, how do we figure out who?
Do me a favour Ken? Keep looking, don`t close yourself off to the possibility that you might be wrong about this, don`t give up on God because it wasn`t an instant thing.
Try praying again? With an open heart.
Because this matters.
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran
-
- Ultimate Member
- Posts: 3502
- Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2014 6:41 am
- Christian: No
- Sex: Female
- Creation Position: I don't believe in creation
- Location: USA
Re: Is secularism spreading?
and to krink im totally unbelievableStoryteller wrote:Yes, seriously.
I believe.
It's totally believeable to me.
- Storyteller
- Ultimate Member
- Posts: 3059
- Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:54 pm
- Christian: No
- Sex: Female
- Creation Position: Undecided
- Location: UK
Re: Is secularism spreading?
Audie wrote:and to krink im totally unbelievableStoryteller wrote:Yes, seriously.
I believe.
It's totally believeable to me.
I think it was your comment rather than you he finds unbelievable.
If Christianity is really that unbelievable then how do you explain why so many people believe it? Are we all fools? Deluded? Or just plain wrong? Or is there just the smallest chance that we might be right?
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran
- RickD
- Make me a Sammich Member
- Posts: 22063
- Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:59 am
- Christian: Yes
- Sex: Male
- Creation Position: Day-Age
- Location: Kitchen
Re: Is secularism spreading?
Actually, there are only two choices, IMO.Storyteller wrote:Audie wrote:and to krink im totally unbelievableStoryteller wrote:Yes, seriously.
I believe.
It's totally believeable to me.
I think it was your comment rather than you he finds unbelievable.
If Christianity is really that unbelievable then how do you explain why so many people believe it? Are we all fools? Deluded? Or just plain wrong? Or is there just the smallest chance that we might be right?
Either Christianity is true. And all it entails.
Or, we are extremely deluded, even fools. There's really no in between.
Either Jesus Christ is who he said he is, God in the flesh, or he's a lunatic. There's no in between.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
-
- Ultimate Member
- Posts: 3502
- Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2014 6:41 am
- Christian: No
- Sex: Female
- Creation Position: I don't believe in creation
- Location: USA
Re: Is secularism spreading?
So many of you xtians are so into binary thinking. Absolutes. What is with that? Is it a cause or res
Ult of religiosity?
There a lot of kinds of "true". Are parables true?
"All" it entails? By whose figuring? Gappists, yec, Mormons, and all the other interpretations and mutually contradictory takes on "truth"? Unicorns?
Some percent of Christians for sure are fools. But which? Everyone says its them others gets it wrong.
As for Jesus the lunatic..how do YOU know what he really said or meant by it? Remote viewing?
How about these two possibilities:
Either you are gifted with infallible readin' and err not, or you are not.
Clarify svp.
Ult of religiosity?
There a lot of kinds of "true". Are parables true?
"All" it entails? By whose figuring? Gappists, yec, Mormons, and all the other interpretations and mutually contradictory takes on "truth"? Unicorns?
Some percent of Christians for sure are fools. But which? Everyone says its them others gets it wrong.
As for Jesus the lunatic..how do YOU know what he really said or meant by it? Remote viewing?
How about these two possibilities:
Either you are gifted with infallible readin' and err not, or you are not.
Clarify svp.
- RickD
- Make me a Sammich Member
- Posts: 22063
- Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:59 am
- Christian: Yes
- Sex: Male
- Creation Position: Day-Age
- Location: Kitchen
Re: Is secularism spreading?
Ah sorry. I Should've been more clear. When I said Christianity and all that it entails, I was referring to the person of Jesus Christ, and the gospel. That, to me, is Christianity. One's creation position, YEC, Gap, OEC, TE, isn't Christianity.Audie wrote:So many of you xtians are so into binary thinking. Absolutes. What is with that? Is it a cause or res
Ult of religiosity?
There a lot of kinds of "true". Are parables true?
"All" it entails? By whose figuring? Gappists, yec, Mormons, and all the other interpretations and mutually contradictory takes on "truth"? Unicorns?
Some percent of Christians for sure are fools. But which? Everyone says its them others gets it wrong.
As for Jesus the lunatic..how do YOU know what he really said or meant by it? Remote viewing?
How about these two possibilities:
Either you are gifted with infallible readin' and err not, or you are not.
Clarify svp.
Does that clear up what I'm saying?
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
-
- Ultimate Member
- Posts: 3502
- Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2014 6:41 am
- Christian: No
- Sex: Female
- Creation Position: I don't believe in creation
- Location: USA
Re: Is secularism spreading?
As clear as redirect is likely to be.RickD wrote:Ah sorry. I Should've been more clear. When I said Christianity and all that it entails, I was referring to the person of Jesus Christ, and the gospel. That, to me, is Christianity. One's creation position, YEC, Gap, OEC, TE, isn't Christianity.Audie wrote:So many of you xtians are so into binary thinking. Absolutes. What is with that? Is it a cause or res
Ult of religiosity?
There a lot of kinds of "true". Are parables true?
"All" it entails? By whose figuring? Gappists, yec, Mormons, and all the other interpretations and mutually contradictory takes on "truth"? Unicorns?
Some percent of Christians for sure are fools. But which? Everyone says its them others gets it wrong.
As for Jesus the lunatic..how do YOU know what he really said or meant by it? Remote viewing?
How about these two possibilities:
Either you are gifted with infallible readin' and err not, or you are not.
Clarify svp.
Does that clear up what I'm saying?
In the grant biz, that would be stamped "unresponsive" and circular-filed.