Interesting video I happened upon this morning

[bippy123]

"I am not in the business of explaining unsubstantiated claims."

Kenny these people that I pointed out to you were atheists befirr their Nde's.
Howard storm's conversion to Christianity from atheism after his nde cost him his marriage as his wife was still an atheist.
These claims can be substantiated by his wife who is still an atheist .
And yet you accepted all the claims that told u that most people who had Nde's experienced what their worldview already told them. Kenny do you see the double standard that you apply towards what evidence you accept or reject ?

The veridical nde of the 57 year old patient in sam parnia's aware study was totally substantiated and subjected to the most stringent scientific protocols . This is definately not unsubstantiated Kenny so your argument doesn't hold up here .

It would be a mistake to assume atheists can’t believe in souls, supernatural, or the afterlife. Just because I don’t believe in those things doesn’t mean other atheists don't

Most atheists don't because it would make the case for theism that much stronger because many nde experiencers see or experience an all loving all knowing light or being of light . This experience is one experienced throughout the different cultures and religious beliefs . It's a consistent theme. If atheists concede that Nde's are real then they must deal with this part of the nde . At this point they really aren't atheists anymore are they Kenny.

The great atheist philosopher AJ ayers's atheism was shaken to its core when he had an nde and said that he saw what he believed to be the creator of all reality . Then a few weeks later he reassured his fane base if atheist followers not to worry, that he is still an atheist .

Yet he spent the last year of his life almost every day in the presence of a jesuit priest. Funny daily acquaintance to have for an atheist

Kenny if you haven't studied Nde's then your atheism isn't based on deep research as Nde's point to 2 of the biggest claims of Christianity, the soul and the afterlife .wouldnt it be logical to suspend that atheism of urs and hold instead to agnosticism until you finish your research ?

[Kenny]

Kenny these people that I pointed out to you were atheists befirr their Nde's.
Howard storm's conversion to Christianity from atheism after his nde cost him his marriage as his wife was still an atheist.
These claims can be substantiated by his wife who is still an atheist .
And yet you accepted all the claims that told u that most people who had Nde's experienced what their worldview already told them. Kenny do you see the double standard that you apply towards what evidence you accept or reject ?

I made it clear that is what I was told, and I asked if YOU knew anything about that. I never said I accepted it as truth. But to me, that claim does sound more realistic than your claim.

Most atheists don't because it would make the case for theism that much stronger

I disagree! It only makes a case for theism for theists who presuppose the experience as associated with their God of choice

because many nde experiencers see or experience an all loving all knowing light or being of light .

How does one make the leap of assuming light, or a being of light is all knowing and all loving, unless they are presupposing this experience as associated with their God of choice?

This experience is one experienced throughout the different cultures and religious beliefs . It's a consistent theme. If atheists concede that Nde's are real then they must deal with this part of the nde . At this point they really aren't atheists anymore are they Kenny.

An atheist wouldn’t presuppose the experience as associated with God, that’s what theists do; an atheist would assume it is something else, and would try to figure out what that something is.

Kenny if you haven't studied Nde's then your atheism isn't based on deep research as Nde's point to 2 of the biggest claims of Christianity, the soul and the afterlife .wouldnt it be logical to suspend that atheism of urs and hold instead to agnosticism until you finish your research ?

Really??? Okay; yesterday you guys was tellin’ me I should do extensive research on the Shroud and become an expert on that otherwise my atheism is suspect, now you saying I should do extensive research and become an expert on near death experiences otherwise my atheism is suspect…. what do you guys have in store for me tomorrow? Archeology? Astronomy? Miracles? My atheism has nothing to do with any of those things. I think Mark Twain said it best:
It's not the part of the Bible I don’t understand that causes me to doubt it; it’s the part of the bible I DO understand

Ken

[Kenny]

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[RickD]

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I agree wholeheartedly!!!!