Essay - Honesty in our approach

[1over137]

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Essay – Honesty in our approach

I was raised as atheist. I did not realize it that much, but I assumed or easily inclined to thinking that Christians are simply wrong. That people always needed to have some “higher power” above them. That they invented God to satisfy their needs. In fact, many people did invent their gods. All gods from history and presence cannot be existent. At the least, teachings about them are not compatible. So, all cannot be right. Even Bible speaks about people creating gods and worshipping them (see for example golden calf in Exodus 32). But, does it mean that God does not exist? It does not. In fact, it may mean, that humans have hidden knowledge about God’s existence (Romans 1:20; Genesis 1:26-27). They may intrinsically have the need for God. So they create their own. But why is that? Why do they create their own gods instead of worshipping the One? Bible tells us that people corrupt themselves (Exodus 32:7), are disobedient (Ephesians 2:2), suppress the truth (Romans 1:18), blind their minds by the god of this world (2 Corinthians 4:4).

When I was a child, having been influenced by my surroundings (and by my own bias), I thought that it is a part of evolution process that people invented their gods. That higher on the “evolution ladder” are those who do not believe in God. I know many other who think the same. But is it honest? Do evolutionists even know what the goal of evolution is? Is it our survival? Is spirituality needed? Or was needed? Why?

I ask because it is so easy just to dismiss something.

Many think we were not that knowledgeable and intelligent so we ascribed to the works of gods natural events like raining, thunderstorms, lightings, etc. Yes, now we know better the mechanisms behind the weather. But still even to this day there are many highly intelligent people who believe in God. Maybe I could give you names. But maybe it will be better if you search yourselves. Physicists, biologists, psychologists, archaeologists … all kinds of people from all kinds of branches of science. Why do they believe in God?

Many people think we are just crazy, having some psychiatric illness. This is nothing new for us, nor for the Bible (Acts 26:24, Mark 3:21, John 10:20). We know we can be treated badly, even persecuted and hated (2Timothy 3:12, Matthew 5:44, 1 John 3:13, John 15:18, 2 Corinthians 12:10). But what is an honest approach? Certainly not accusing us of being crazy. Or mocking us as for example Mr. Dawkins who seems to be master in it.

Once on Facebook I saw a video from Dawkins' website shared by one my FB friend. It was nothing but mere mocking. I commented that it is silly to which my FB friend replied: "Yes, it is silly". But he had in mind that the "it" meant Bible (they were mocking Bible and Christianity). So I said further: "I mean the video is silly". My FB friend was surprised. Maybe he thought that someone who studied theoretical physics would not defend Christianity – silly stuff for him. Maybe he thought something else, but the fact remains that I was treated with disdain and with the behavior 'I know better than you'. Hmm, such are fans of Mr. Dawkins?

When I was an atheist, I thought that we-atheists are wiser and more intelligent than them-Christians. Why did I think that? Well, of course, not everybody is like me. I thought it because I was influenced by my surroundings. It was passed on me. But I let it to be passed. I did not really explore it. I should have searched for intelligent Christians, befriend them, talk to them. Much later, I did this. But it was after a group of missionaries came into my town.

I was raised and lived in atheistic world where christianity is something like non-existent. We were supposed to study, have good grades. I even did not know I have talent for art. We were raised up in one direction.

There is one thing on my heart I wish to tell you: If you think you are the most intelligent in your surroundings, please go and find some Christian who will meet your intellectual needs. And not only that. Your personalities should match. It is somewhat disturbing when you do not understand each other. And please, find someone who is loving, peaceful, patient, kind, faithful, gentle, self-controlled, because such is the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23).

Many people think that Christianity cannot be right, because there was/is so much evil done by Christians. Yes, indeed, there are people calling themselves Christians and behaving in an unchristian way. I do not dare to judge them. God knows best. But the Bible tells me there are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ (2Corinthians 11:13-15). We are warned of such people (Matthew 7:15, Titus 1:16, 1John 4:1) and we are warned to be such people (Matthew 7:21-23).

My mother always suspected believing persons I befriended of being members of some sect. She was scared all the time when she learned I have Christian friends. Yes, there are sects. That is a fact. And they do harm. But not everybody belongs to a sect. There are Christians. They do exist.

Also, even Christians themselves are not sinless. Apostle Paul speaks of himself having not became perfect (Philippians 3:12). He wrestled with his sins, with his flesh (Romans 7:14-25). But we do not enjoy committing sins. When we recognize we have sinned we feel sorrow. And this sorrow produces a repentance (2Corinthians 7:10). We are not alone in this battle. God gave us the Helper, the Holy Spirit, who will teach us (John 14:26), help us in our weakness (Romans 8:26), give us power and hope (Romans 15:13), through Him God poured His love into our hearts (Romans 5:5).

So how to know which Christians to befriend? (If you want to befriend them.) Well, test spirits (1 John 4:1), test everything (1Thessalonians 5:21), examine their teaching by examining the Scriptures (Acts 17:11). Examining the Scriptures may not be an easy task. So, be patient, ask various people about it, be respectful, willing to listen and learn.

It never helps (prove me wrong) to say, "You must be crazy!"

One is also to be honest to himself. It never works if you push yourself into a belief. C. S. Lewis wrote in his book Mere Christianity:

It is true that some people may find they have to wait in the hall for a considerable time, while others feel certain almost at once which door they must knock at. I do not know why there is this difference, but I am sure God keeps no one waiting unless He sees that it is good for him to wait. When you do get into your room you will find that the long wait has done you some kind of good which you would not have had otherwise. But you must regard it as waiting, not as camping. You must keep on praying for light: and of course, even in the hall, you must begin trying to obey rules which are common to the whole house. And above all you must be asking which door is the true one; not which pleases you best by its paint and panelling.

Since I was born, I longed for the truth. I remember very well how once I complained to my Christian friend that if there is a God why He could not kick me. I searched the truth, I wanted it much, yet I did not know God. Now I see how the long waiting 'has done me some kind of good'. I went through very hard times, but the result now is that I am more stronger, more understanding, more compassionate, more grateful, more depending and more faithful.

God promises that if we search for Him with all our hearts and all our souls we will find Him (Deuteronomy 4:29, Proverbs 8:17, Lamentations 3:25, Matthew 7:7-8, Jeremiah 29:13). This is a great promise, if not the greatest. We are to explore our hearts. We are to understand what we really long for. I would recommend anybody to read Christ's words and see whether it touched his heart.

And one day, when the time comes and the waiting ends, you will know it.

(c) 1over137

[RickD]

Hana,

Could you share what led to from a belief that God didn't exist, to a belief that God exists? Was it scientific? Was it a revelation?

I'm just interested in what "flipped the switch" from "no God" to "God" for you.

[EssentialSacrifice]

Hannah, just a wonderful testimony. Now, the second scientist's read for Christianity in as many days ! I know you looked in to the Sarah Salviander testimony also. Were you as impressed with her as I am with yours ? Thanks for sharing and I second Rick's request for the how's of you finding God (or Him finding you ). I think that will be a very interesting read too. Thank you for the warmth you have already provided.

[abelcainsbrother]

Thank you for giving your testimony and your story I think it is awesome and I'm glad you were able to see that we Christians are not so dumb after all.But more importantly I'm glad you found Jesus Christ.I sometimes wonder how so many atheists cannot see through the atheist facade their atheist hero's project like Dawkins,etc.They look up to them and see them as hero's and cannot realize they are being played.This is why I try as best I can to engage atheists to try to help them see through the charade.It is fake but real.I hope and pray that I can be a light shining into the darkness and to be that light so they can finally see.

[Storyteller]

Hana....

One word...


Beautiful

[1over137]

Hi all,

Thank you.
Well, it was not intended to be testimony. It is just my talking to searchers.

My testimony is here
http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... 80#p117403
https://www.mtw.org/SiteCollectionDocum ... lovaks.pdf

ES, you may want to enjoy also reading stories of Faraday and Maxwell
http://silas.psfc.mit.edu/Faraday/
http://silas.psfc.mit.edu/maxwell/
(P.S. I go through the presentation and check for nonsense and all in Salviander's slides)

Rick, if you do not find the answer in my testominies, let me know.

[RickD]

Yes. Thanks Hana. I remember reading that a while back.

[Audie]

Thank you for giving your testimony and your story I think it is awesome and I'm glad you were able to see that we Christians are not so dumb after all.But more importantly I'm glad you found Jesus Christ.I sometimes wonder how so many atheists cannot see through the atheist facade their atheist hero's project like Dawkins,etc.They look up to them and see them as hero's and cannot realize they are being played.This is why I try as best I can to engage atheists to try to help them see through the charade.It is fake but real.I hope and pray that I can be a light shining into the darkness and to be that light so they can finally see.

Why should that rather nice article have to be taken as an excuse to attack atheists?

Then you do exactly as you are (falsely) complaining of, saying that atheists are dupes of "leaders" who cant see thru a "charade". Are ( not bright enough to) see that they are being "played". Look at Dawkins et all as "hero's" (sic)

As for "dumb Christians" some are, some are not. I've never even heard of anyone saying they all are. Presenting that this is an atheist attitude toward Christians is
a cheap shot, and utterly false.



The ones who may earn the scorn of educated people, Christian or otherwise, are the fundies who set out to crusade against science. Anyone can find the studies that show fundamentalism draws its strength the lower rungs of the socio/ economic/ education ladder. Anyone can read their generally semi-literate posts, their illogic, their bitter clinging to their floods and so forth despite any and all proof that its nonsense.

Fundamentalism is not Christianity, its an unfortunate subset of willfully ignorant persons who may or may not otherwise qualify as Christian.

You want to engage an atheist to see thru a charade?
You will note that I presented you with information that clearly shows that polar ice is 100% incompatible with a world wide flood. You have absolutely no factual information to present against that. So what do you do for a response? Think about it, maybe even consider that you could have made a mistake? Nope, you go to preaching at me. You want someone to see thru some charade? I did.

If you'd care to be a "light" shine it thru your own darkness before you try to be an example for others.

[EssentialSacrifice]

(P.S. I go through the presentation and check for nonsense and all in Salviander's slides)

outstanding young lady... I'm on my knees you don't find anything to time altering as if this fits as she says, it's just too cool

I await your determination

[1over137]

(P.S. I go through the presentation and check for nonsense and all in Salviander's slides)

outstanding young lady... I'm on my knees you don't find anything to time altering as if this fits as she says, it's just too cool

I await your determination

I just sent her email.

[EssentialSacrifice]

Sandemanianism is a very complete form of Christianity... this must have struck a chord with you ...

he saw the hand of God in nature and allowed his spiritual perception of the lawful, intelligent, creation to guide his deepest and most influential theorizing. Within the restraining structure imposed by the experimental facts of creation and the teachings of scripture he permitted his active imagination and his joyful heart their productive freedoms. And in his scientific endeavors as much as his spiritual service he understood and lived out the importance of personal character and moral standards in the search for truth

Really quite inspirational and firmly direct...

Lordship salvation is the position that receiving Christ involves a turning in the heart from sin and, as a part of faith, a submissive commitment to obey Jesus Christ as Lord. It also maintains that progressive sanctification and perseverance must necessarily follow conversion. Those who hold to the doctrine of perseverance of the saints see this not only as a requirement, but an assured certainty according to the sustaining grace of Christ.

Perseverance of the saints is the Calvinist doctrine that those who are truly saved will persevere to the end and cannot lose their salvation. It doesn't mean that a person who is truly saved will never lose faith or backslide at any time. But that they will ultimately persevere in faith (in spite of failures) such as not to lose their salvation.

Faraday definitely had it together. I often find it hard to believe some people have so much relative genius, and if so, usually in more than one aspect of their lives, like Faraday, and most simply do not. I hold him and his scientific and religious acumen in high regard. Very well thought out measured and reasoned life.

[abelcainsbrother]

Thank you for giving your testimony and your story I think it is awesome and I'm glad you were able to see that we Christians are not so dumb after all.But more importantly I'm glad you found Jesus Christ.I sometimes wonder how so many atheists cannot see through the atheist facade their atheist hero's project like Dawkins,etc.They look up to them and see them as hero's and cannot realize they are being played.This is why I try as best I can to engage atheists to try to help them see through the charade.It is fake but real.I hope and pray that I can be a light shining into the darkness and to be that light so they can finally see.

Why should that rather nice article have to be taken as an excuse to attack atheists?

Then you do exactly as you are (falsely) complaining of, saying that atheists are dupes of "leaders" who cant see thru a "charade". Are ( not bright enough to) see that they are being "played". Look at Dawkins et all as "hero's" (sic)

As for "dumb Christians" some are, some are not. I've never even heard of anyone saying they all are. Presenting that this is an atheist attitude toward Christians is
a cheap shot, and utterly false.



The ones who may earn the scorn of educated people, Christian or otherwise, are the fundies who set out to crusade against science. Anyone can find the studies that show fundamentalism draws its strength the lower rungs of the socio/ economic/ education ladder. Anyone can read their generally semi-literate posts, their illogic, their bitter clinging to their floods and so forth despite any and all proof that its nonsense.

Fundamentalism is not Christianity, its an unfortunate subset of willfully ignorant persons who may or may not otherwise qualify as Christian.

You want to engage an atheist to see thru a charade?
You will note that I presented you with information that clearly shows that polar ice is 100% incompatible with a world wide flood. You have absolutely no factual information to present against that. So what do you do for a response? Think about it, maybe even consider that you could have made a mistake? Nope, you go to preaching at me. You want someone to see thru some charade? I did.

If you'd care to be a "light" shine it thru your own darkness before you try to be an example for others.

These people mock Christians and you think I am slandering them? It is the truth and you're anger of the truth blinds you to see.You presented factual information? Well you are just nit-picking which factual information you accept and which you reject because I gave factual information that backed up what I said about the ice being totally different ice at the bottom and that it was frozen.Yet you only believe the information you gave when I think they might both be right,but no you only want to believe the information you gave.You are preaching also by the way how a flood did not happen.

[Audie]

Thank you for giving your testimony and your story I think it is awesome and I'm glad you were able to see that we Christians are not so dumb after all.But more importantly I'm glad you found Jesus Christ.I sometimes wonder how so many atheists cannot see through the atheist facade their atheist hero's project like Dawkins,etc.They look up to them and see them as hero's and cannot realize they are being played.This is why I try as best I can to engage atheists to try to help them see through the charade.It is fake but real.I hope and pray that I can be a light shining into the darkness and to be that light so they can finally see.

Why should that rather nice article have to be taken as an excuse to attack atheists?

Then you do exactly as you are (falsely) complaining of, saying that atheists are dupes of "leaders" who cant see thru a "charade". Are ( not bright enough to) see that they are being "played". Look at Dawkins et all as "hero's" (sic)

As for "dumb Christians" some are, some are not. I've never even heard of anyone saying they all are. Presenting that this is an atheist attitude toward Christians is
a cheap shot, and utterly false.



The ones who may earn the scorn of educated people, Christian or otherwise, are the fundies who set out to crusade against science. Anyone can find the studies that show fundamentalism draws its strength the lower rungs of the socio/ economic/ education ladder. Anyone can read their generally semi-literate posts, their illogic, their bitter clinging to their floods and so forth despite any and all proof that its nonsense.

Fundamentalism is not Christianity, its an unfortunate subset of willfully ignorant persons who may or may not otherwise qualify as Christian.

You want to engage an atheist to see thru a charade?
You will note that I presented you with information that clearly shows that polar ice is 100% incompatible with a world wide flood. You have absolutely no factual information to present against that. So what do you do for a response? Think about it, maybe even consider that you could have made a mistake? Nope, you go to preaching at me. You want someone to see thru some charade? I did.

If you'd care to be a "light" shine it thru your own darkness before you try to be an example for others.

These people mock Christians and you think I am slandering them? It is the truth and you're anger of the truth blinds you to see.You presented factual information? Well you are just nit-picking which factual information you accept and which you reject because I gave factual information that backed up what I said about the ice being totally different ice at the bottom and that it was frozen.Yet you only believe the information you gave when I think they might both be right,but no you only want to believe the information you gave.You are preaching also by the way how a flood did not happen.

One slow careful step at a time, then.

Do glaciers move? Simple yes or no will do.

[Kurieuo]

The ones who may earn the scorn of educated people, Christian or otherwise, are the fundies who set out to crusade against science. Anyone can find the studies that show fundamentalism draws its strength the lower rungs of the socio/ economic/ education ladder. Anyone can read their generally semi-literate posts, their illogic, their bitter clinging to their floods and so forth despite any and all proof that its nonsense.

Fundamentalism is not Christianity, its an unfortunate subset of willfully ignorant persons who may or may not otherwise qualify as Christian.

Just so you know, while I don't rationally crusade against science (only secular thought) I do consider myself a Fundamentalist.

To get back to it's true origins, namely I believe in:

• Biblical inspiration and the inerrancy of scripture
• Virgin birth of Jesus
• Belief that Christ's death was the atonement for sin
• Bodily resurrection of Jesus
• Historical reality of the miracles of Jesus

So, I'm wondering if I should be considered in the lower rungs of the socio / economic / education ladder.
Christ came for such as these. So I guess I'm not feeling too insulted (maybe a little, even if unintentional on your part).

Maybe I am willfully ignorant to the status quo of today's society and their accepted truths, so I expect to be mocked and ridiculed.
But, hopefully Christ will qualify me as one of His despite any such weaknesses. That's all that matters. (2 Cor 12:9-10)

[abelcainsbrother]

Thank you for giving your testimony and your story I think it is awesome and I'm glad you were able to see that we Christians are not so dumb after all.But more importantly I'm glad you found Jesus Christ.I sometimes wonder how so many atheists cannot see through the atheist facade their atheist hero's project like Dawkins,etc.They look up to them and see them as hero's and cannot realize they are being played.This is why I try as best I can to engage atheists to try to help them see through the charade.It is fake but real.I hope and pray that I can be a light shining into the darkness and to be that light so they can finally see.

Why should that rather nice article have to be taken as an excuse to attack atheists?

Then you do exactly as you are (falsely) complaining of, saying that atheists are dupes of "leaders" who cant see thru a "charade". Are ( not bright enough to) see that they are being "played". Look at Dawkins et all as "hero's" (sic)

As for "dumb Christians" some are, some are not. I've never even heard of anyone saying they all are. Presenting that this is an atheist attitude toward Christians is
a cheap shot, and utterly false.



The ones who may earn the scorn of educated people, Christian or otherwise, are the fundies who set out to crusade against science. Anyone can find the studies that show fundamentalism draws its strength the lower rungs of the socio/ economic/ education ladder. Anyone can read their generally semi-literate posts, their illogic, their bitter clinging to their floods and so forth despite any and all proof that its nonsense.

Fundamentalism is not Christianity, its an unfortunate subset of willfully ignorant persons who may or may not otherwise qualify as Christian.

You want to engage an atheist to see thru a charade?
You will note that I presented you with information that clearly shows that polar ice is 100% incompatible with a world wide flood. You have absolutely no factual information to present against that. So what do you do for a response? Think about it, maybe even consider that you could have made a mistake? Nope, you go to preaching at me. You want someone to see thru some charade? I did.

If you'd care to be a "light" shine it thru your own darkness before you try to be an example for others.

These people mock Christians and you think I am slandering them? It is the truth and you're anger of the truth blinds you to see.You presented factual information? Well you are just nit-picking which factual information you accept and which you reject because I gave factual information that backed up what I said about the ice being totally different ice at the bottom and that it was frozen.Yet you only believe the information you gave when I think they might both be right,but no you only want to believe the information you gave.You are preaching also by the way how a flood did not happen.

One slow careful step at a time, then.

Do glaciers move? Simple yes or no will do.

We should not derail threads. Is climate change happening now? Should be the question,not yes or no necessarily because they might move if climate change is happening and not if it is'nt.