Audie wrote:RickD wrote:Audie wrote:No, its not "backtracking". I could have, obviously for
YOU, should have, put in the word "always". Why do you choose to think that clarifying is "backtracking"?
I do complain about the frequent 'atheists this" and, "atheists that" statements that seem intended to include all atheists. You dont but then, you are you.
The basis for your assertion about who is or is not a True Scotsman, ah, "Christian"?
Ok, clarifying. I apologize.
There are things that are true about all atheists. You would agree with that, correct?
There are things that are true about all believers. One such thing is that ALL believers, without exception have been transformed from one who is dead in his sin, to one who is alive in Christ. Transformed from one who is on the path to hell, to one who has eternal life.
What I think you are talking about, and correct me if I'm wrong, is those who profess to be Christian(whether they are or not), who don't seem to be any different(better acting) than they were before they were Christian. Or professing Christians who don't act any better than non Christians. Which, if I'm reading you correctly, leads you to think that there's no transformation.
Is that accurate?
good enough, allowing for the possibility of the true scotsman thing
I'm not one to make the argument that no true Christian would do
x. I believe Christians do all sorts of horrible things.
Getting to the point, I don't believe Christians will automatically show fruit, or show a transformation, as you put it. I think Christians who continue trusting in Christ, will grow and there will be fruit. But that doesn't mean all Christians will necessarily show good fruit. But Christians who don't continue trusting Christ, may not produce fruit. For example, there are Christians who live according to the flesh, who probably won't appear to have changed at all. Many of us have gone through periods like this.
This is how I see being a Christian(while on earth) in a nutshell:
1) trust Christ for salvation(become a believer)
2a) continue trusting Christ (grow as a believer)
2b) don't continue trusting in Christ, living more for the things of this world(don't grow in Christ like one should, and don't show fruit like one is supposed to)
The way God intended is 2a. But sometimes we fall into 2b.
That doesn't mean we're not still a believer, it just means we aren't living as God intended us to live as a believer.
It's kinda simplified, but that's the basic idea.
It seems like you're seeing quite a bit of 2b. But, like I said before, I don't discount the possibility that some who profess to be Christians, aren't really Christians.