what does it mean to be a Christian?

General discussions about Christianity including salvation, heaven and hell, Christian history and so on.
Audie
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Re: what does it mean to be a Christian?

Post by Audie »

1over137 wrote:
Audie wrote:
1over137 wrote:Audie,

as you never want to be a Christian, may I ask what are you doing here on this forum?

From Board Purpose
This board is not for those who have strongly made up their mind that Christ is "not" for them; who merely wish to put down, debate, and argue against essential Christian beliefs. As such, those who are Christian, have not made up their minds, or desire civilised discussions on Christianity are encouraged to join, while others who merely wish to attack and try to discredit Christianity are discouraged and will be heavily moderated.
If that is an invitation to leave, I will respect it.
I will leave the interpretation to you heart.

Peace.
Sorry, but I cant respect that. Say what you mean, or dont say anything.

this is what you posted


who merely wish to put down, debate, and argue against essential Christian beliefs.

while others who merely wish to attack and try to discredit Christianity


If its not about me, then dont post it at me. If it is, then say so.
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1over137
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Re: what does it mean to be a Christian?

Post by 1over137 »

First of all I meant my question.
But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
-- 1 Thessalonians 5:21

For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
-- Philippians 1:6

#foreverinmyheart
EssentialSacrifice
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Re: what does it mean to be a Christian?

Post by EssentialSacrifice »

Im not a christian, never wanted to be, and wont be. So, no, what I do is not "Christian". What I do and feel is not "Christian".

If you feel it is weaker, less meaningful, etc, as you evidently do, going by what is in bold, go for it. I hear that sort of thing a lot from Christians, nominal or otherwise.

People who didnt buy into the religion will always see that as presenting that Christians are better than others. Love better and deeper, more moral, think clearer, have deeper understanding, blah and etc.

What effect do you think that has?

I wish you and others would refrain from making things up about me. (see in bold, above)
It does not, btw, jibe well with the presentation of wisdom or understanding of Christian values
Look Audie, I have not made up a thing about you. I thoughtfully answered your post and will so again right now...
If you feel it is weaker, less meaningful, etc, as you evidently do
I have not, in any way intimated that you feel weaker or less meaningful. Your "as you evidently do" are words of your doing not mine. The boldened portions you see, are simple facts.
you have the training but not the will
... is completely true. The hardest part of sacrifice is the first step and training yourself to be so is the most important step. You have that training but not the Christian will. You have the Asian will. That which has been taught for centuries. The forced will of male dominated society that says you will do it this way or else... why else would you say you couldn't run from it fast enough ?
Your free will allows for any response you wish
... this free will allowance is for Christians... they do not have to sacrifice, their response could be not to sacrifice. (they are not good Christians) but none the less do not have to obey. Can you say the same for your ancestors who were more forced to sacrifice ?
preconceived notion of yours, inherent with your undisciplined and incorrect learning
... there's nothing here putting you down. The truth is it is completely unChristian. You do not have to belong to a church to be saved. IMO it makes the ride a lot smoother and for other Christians, ... not so much. The point being, we can choose and your thoughts of "westerners have to go to church to get saved" is incorrect, an undisciplined and incorrect learning.... It's just the truth Audie, not a put down..

Quite honestly, the only put down is the post was yours when you needed to use the word "strange" in defining a passage of mine. Was that word used to make you feel better about the passage ? n Was it necessary to use it at all? It seemed a self serving notion to have to "put down" my thought in sentence by making it appear strange ...
People who didn't buy into the religion will always see that as presenting that Christians are better than others. Love better and deeper, more moral, think clearer, have deeper understanding, blah and etc....
and this is how much you do not understand my religion.... we are to be the last, not the first... not better than anybody, but their servants... not love better or deeper but love all the same and never in comparison to another... no moral high ground no thinking more clearly, no deeper understanding... we are to be on the bottom of the totem pole looking up...always looking up to find our God above us and in those we esteem more than we do ourselves...
What effect do you think that has?
... it was never intended to have this effect on you. Just a mild explanation of who we are supposed to be as Christians.
It does not, btw, jibe well with the presentation of wisdom or understanding of Christian values. ... IMO your response says far more in regards to lack of wisdom or even an attempt at understanding.
.. it feels like you simply want to argue and feel sorry for yourself because everyone is picking on you. I have not done that here and you should know it, if you read my post with even a small bit of wisdom and understanding...

I do not think this forum is for you... it constantly makes you feel bad about yourself and even worse about those with whom you speak. The burden is yours Audie. Do what you will but do not expect anything but continued aggravation when there is so little understanding between us.
Trust the past to God’s mercy, the present to God’s love, and the future to God’s providence. -St Augustine
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B. W.
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Re: what does it mean to be a Christian?

Post by B. W. »

Audie is playing the poor pitiful discriminated me look I am a martyr card..

Please do not give into this form of reason.

We actually care about Audie and though it is she who hates us and hates God - it is we who actually love her. We toss a lifeline to her and if she refuses to grab hold of that life line - it is on her.

One day we will all die, including Audie and after that there is no life line. Jesus loved the Pharisees too and spoke with tough love toward them in order to wake a few up to the life line they need. Atheist have their own brand of Pharisees too. And Audie, you cannot tell a former dead guy that there is nothing after one dies, however I can tell you there is something after you die. Take the life line Audie and actually discover the love that the world has robbed from you.

Audie, I can imagine what you would like to do to Jesus Christ - take a baseball bat and beat him dead. Jesus let you do that to him in order to wake you up to your anger caused by the attention, affection, and love that was robbed form your heart growing up. He came back to life in order to bring you back into life because a love like his will not be defeated by how many blows from the bat you swing.

You are not a nice person, by your own admittance - on this form. Come to Jesus and ask him t forgive you of your baseball bat. He knows you were robbed of love and the God of the Universe desires to restore you back to what and whom you were meant to be, that your life does indeed have value. Currently, your belief system is grounded in nothing. Therefore, nothing you do has any value. You believe in self and self to you, after self dies, goes into nothing; therefore, your life has no value - how can it?

Yet, you can find value if you take the life line of Jesus Christ before it is too late.
-
-
-
Science is man's invention - creation is God's
(by B. W. Melvin)

Old Polish Proverb:
Not my Circus....not my monkeys
Audie
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Re: what does it mean to be a Christian?

Post by Audie »

EssentialSacrifice wrote:
Im not a christian, never wanted to be, and wont be. So, no, what I do is not "Christian". What I do and feel is not "Christian".

If you feel it is weaker, less meaningful, etc, as you evidently do, going by what is in bold, go for it. I hear that sort of thing a lot from Christians, nominal or otherwise.

People who didnt buy into the religion will always see that as presenting that Christians are better than others. Love better and deeper, more moral, think clearer, have deeper understanding, blah and etc.

What effect do you think that has?

I wish you and others would refrain from making things up about me. (see in bold, above)
It does not, btw, jibe well with the presentation of wisdom or understanding of Christian values
Look Audie, I have not made up a thing about you. I thoughtfully answered your post and will so again right now...
If you feel it is weaker, less meaningful, etc, as you evidently do
I have not, in any way intimated that you feel weaker or less meaningful. Your "as you evidently do" are words of your doing not mine. The boldened portions you see, are simple facts.
you have the training but not the will
... is completely true. The hardest part of sacrifice is the first step and training yourself to be so is the most important step. You have that training but not the Christian will. You have the Asian will. That which has been taught for centuries. The forced will of male dominated society that says you will do it this way or else... why else would you say you couldn't run from it fast enough ?
Your free will allows for any response you wish
... this free will allowance is for Christians... they do not have to sacrifice, their response could be not to sacrifice. (they are not good Christians) but none the less do not have to obey. Can you say the same for your ancestors who were more forced to sacrifice ?
preconceived notion of yours, inherent with your undisciplined and incorrect learning
... there's nothing here putting you down. The truth is it is completely unChristian. You do not have to belong to a church to be saved. IMO it makes the ride a lot smoother and for other Christians, ... not so much. The point being, we can choose and your thoughts of "westerners have to go to church to get saved" is incorrect, an undisciplined and incorrect learning.... It's just the truth Audie, not a put down..

Quite honestly, the only put down is the post was yours when you needed to use the word "strange" in defining a passage of mine. Was that word used to make you feel better about the passage ? n Was it necessary to use it at all? It seemed a self serving notion to have to "put down" my thought in sentence by making it appear strange ...
People who didn't buy into the religion will always see that as presenting that Christians are better than others. Love better and deeper, more moral, think clearer, have deeper understanding, blah and etc....
and this is how much you do not understand my religion.... we are to be the last, not the first... not better than anybody, but their servants... not love better or deeper but love all the same and never in comparison to another... no moral high ground no thinking more clearly, no deeper understanding... we are to be on the bottom of the totem pole looking up...always looking up to find our God above us and in those we esteem more than we do ourselves...
What effect do you think that has?
... it was never intended to have this effect on you. Just a mild explanation of who we are supposed to be as Christians.
It does not, btw, jibe well with the presentation of wisdom or understanding of Christian values. ... IMO your response says far more in regards to lack of wisdom or even an attempt at understanding.
.. it feels like you simply want to argue and feel sorry for yourself because everyone is picking on you. I have not done that here and you should know it, if you read my post with even a small bit of wisdom and understanding...

I do not think this forum is for you... it constantly makes you feel bad about yourself and even worse about those with whom you speak. The burden is yours Audie. Do what you will but do not expect anything but continued aggravation when there is so little understanding between us.
"So little understanding" is not best filled in by making things up. If you find yourself in a reflective mood, see if you can figure out why you do it.
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Re: what does it mean to be a Christian?

Post by Audie »

B. W. wrote:Audie is playing the poor pitiful discriminated me look I am a martyr card..

Please do not give into this form of reason.

We actually care about Audie and though it is she who hates us and hates God - it is we who actually love her. We toss a lifeline to her and if she refuses to grab hold of that life line - it is on her.

One day we will all die, including Audie and after that there is no life line. Jesus loved the Pharisees too and spoke with tough love toward them in order to wake a few up to the life line they need. Atheist have their own brand of Pharisees too. And Audie, you cannot tell a former dead guy that there is nothing after one dies, however I can tell you there is something after you die. Take the life line Audie and actually discover the love that the world has robbed from you.

Audie, I can imagine what you would like to do to Jesus Christ - take a baseball bat and beat him dead. Jesus let you do that to him in order to wake you up to your anger caused by the attention, affection, and love that was robbed form your heart growing up. He came back to life in order to bring you back into life because a love like his will not be defeated by how many blows from the bat you swing.

You are not a nice person, by your own admittance - on this form. Come to Jesus and ask him t forgive you of your baseball bat. He knows you were robbed of love and the God of the Universe desires to restore you back to what and whom you were meant to be, that your life does indeed have value. Currently, your belief system is grounded in nothing. Therefore, nothing you do has any value. You believe in self and self to you, after self dies, goes into nothing; therefore, your life has no value - how can it?

Yet, you can find value if you take the life line of Jesus Christ before it is too late.
-
-
-
Nothing you could say has any credibility with me. The fantasies in bold are an example of why.
Audie
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Re: what does it mean to be a Christian?

Post by Audie »

1over137 wrote:First of all I meant my question.
You wish for me to say why I have been posting here?
If so, what was the rest of that about?
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Re: what does it mean to be a Christian?

Post by EssentialSacrifice »

If you find yourself in a reflective mood, see if you can figure out why you do it
.... that is ... saying I am making things up about you... I don't see it Audie...either show me or...
Sorry, but I cant respect that. Say what you mean, or dont say anything
because saying I make things up about you, without proof, in these posts, is just like saying nothing.... y#-o y=; :(
Trust the past to God’s mercy, the present to God’s love, and the future to God’s providence. -St Augustine
Audie
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Re: what does it mean to be a Christian?

Post by Audie »

EssentialSacrifice wrote:
If you find yourself in a reflective mood, see if you can figure out why you do it
.... that is ... saying I am making things up about you... I don't see it Audie...either show me or...
Sorry, but I cant respect that. Say what you mean, or dont say anything
because saying I make things up about you, without proof, in these posts, is just like saying nothing.... y#-o y=; :(
Try this...I said:

Self sacrifice in the service of others.
Its an Asian cultures thing. If westerners have to go to church, get saved and utter strange chants like
"sublime intention on the sacrificial alter of brotherly love", well,
better than not getting it at all.



you turned it into this:
The point being, we can choose and your thoughts of "westerners have to go to church to get saved" is incorrect, an undisciplined and incorrect learning.... It's just the truth Audie, not a put down..
In the dept of undisciplined and incorrect, what I said, and what you claim I said are not remotely the same thing.

Do you see the difference? Why did you change it?
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Re: what does it mean to be a Christian?

Post by PaulSacramento »

Self sacrifice is a very common CULTURAL thing in some asian cultures, especially Japan.
It is based on the "needs of the man out weight the needs of the few" point of view, typically.

Christian self-sacrifice is based NOT one what we do for others, though that is the "goal", but what another (Christ) has done for us.
In short Christian self-sacrifice is based on love while asian cultures tend to view self-sacrifice as something duty-oriented.
Yes I an generalizing but since we are speaking in general terms, that is fine.

We need to remember that Asian tend to be either Muslim, Confucian, Buddhist, Taoist, Shinto or "naturalistic", if not atheist and those religions ( especially Buddhist) tend to down play love and attachment and focus on duty to group and family and so forth.
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Re: what does it mean to be a Christian?

Post by 1over137 »

Audie wrote:
1over137 wrote:First of all I meant my question.
You wish for me to say why I have been posting here?
If so, what was the rest of that about?
You are right. If I want to ask you why you are here the question only would be sufficient. (I maybe added the Board Purpose as a remainder how to approach this board)

(Still thinking about what to write more or not write, but heck, I should not feel this uncomfortable. Audie, you make me to think about every letter I type. Now submitting this post as it is. The rest is in God's hands.)
But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
-- 1 Thessalonians 5:21

For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
-- Philippians 1:6

#foreverinmyheart
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Re: what does it mean to be a Christian?

Post by Audie »

1over137 wrote:
Audie wrote:
1over137 wrote:First of all I meant my question.
You wish for me to say why I have been posting here?
If so, what was the rest of that about?
You are right. If I want to ask you why you are here the question only would be sufficient. (I maybe added the Board Purpose as a remainder how to approach this board)

(Still thinking about what to write more or not write, but heck, I should not feel this uncomfortable. Audie, you make me to think about every letter I type. Now submitting this post as it is. The rest is in God's hands.)

Im afraid my training these days is all about analyzing the exact intent of every word.

Thanks for taking your time here, you've made yourself clear.

I am very sorry I made you uncomfortable.
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Re: what does it mean to be a Christian?

Post by Audie »

PaulSacramento wrote:Self sacrifice is a very common CULTURAL thing in some asian cultures, especially Japan.
It is based on the "needs of the man out weight the needs of the few" point of view, typically.

Christian self-sacrifice is based NOT one what we do for others, though that is the "goal", but what another (Christ) has done for us.
In short Christian self-sacrifice is based on love while asian cultures tend to view self-sacrifice as something duty-oriented.
Yes I an generalizing but since we are speaking in general terms, that is fine.

We need to remember that Asian tend to be either Muslim, Confucian, Buddhist, Taoist, Shinto or "naturalistic", if not atheist and those religions ( especially Buddhist) tend to down play love and attachment and focus on duty to group and family and so forth.

I guess I wont get into cultural lessons other than to say you are more or less correct and leave it at that.
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Re: what does it mean to be a Christian?

Post by 1over137 »

May I ask that question then, Audie?
But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
-- 1 Thessalonians 5:21

For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
-- Philippians 1:6

#foreverinmyheart
Audie
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Re: what does it mean to be a Christian?

Post by Audie »

1over137 wrote:May I ask that question then, Audie?
Sure. I dont actually have a good answer, not even to myself.
Id tell you if I did.
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