The seven churches as seven ages?

[SomeGuy]

Was at a conference this last weekend and one of the first speakers preached out of Revelations and a lot of eschatology stuff, which amazed me b/c no one preaches out of that stuff. anyways, one of the points that he made was that the 7 churches in the beginning of revelations refer to different ages or epochs in the churches history. based on this assumption, we would be the last church, laodicea. Any thoughts on this?

[bizzt]

Was at a conference this last weekend and one of the first speakers preached out of Revelations and a lot of eschatology stuff, which amazed me b/c no one preaches out of that stuff. anyways, one of the points that he made was that the 7 churches in the beginning of revelations refer to different ages or epochs in the churches history. based on this assumption, we would be the last church, laodicea. Any thoughts on this?

I don't necessarily Agree with that but it is a Thought that can be entertained. However what are the Ages and what can we learn from those Ages of Time?

[puritan lad]

This theory became popular when the Scofield Reference Bible became a best selling novel. There is absolutely no evidence to support this. Besides, if this were true, then the "rapture", which was supposedly found in Rev. 3:10, should have taken place during the Industrial Revolution, allegedly represented by the Philadelphia church. I'm sure that the first Century Philadelphians were glad to hear this.

"Be of good cheer you faithful, suffering Christians of First Century Philadelphia. I won't let those killer bees and Soviet missiles of the 20th Century get you. Just beware of Visa Cards, Computer Chips, and Virtual Reality."

Obviously, when examined in it's original context, it borders on the ridiculous.

[PHIL121]

Oh, you mean this?


Ephesus--The Loveless Church--The church that crucified Christ
Smyyrna- The Persecuted Church--The church persecuted by the Romans
Pergamos--The Compromising Church--The church that became adopted paganism to become 'popular' with Rome
Thyatira--The Corrupt Church--The Church of the Middle Ages that that preached Faith by Works
Sardis-The Dead Church-- What the Church of the Middle Ages eventually became because of its corruption
Philadelphia---The Faithful Church-- The Church of the Reformation in the 1600's to 1800's
Laodicea--The Luke-Warm Church--- The modern Church, where people go to be bored on Sunday because 'its the thing to do'. (or else it is the place to go to play "Bingo") or don't bother worrying about whose going to be the next Supreme Court Justice.

Thus, the current age we are living in (Luke-warm, Laodicea Age) is the last before Christ's second coming.

I whole-heartedly agree with Schofeild and the others who believe this is part of the prophecy of Revelations.

[puritan lad]

Oh, you mean this?


Ephesus--The Loveless Church--The church that crucified Christ
Smyyrna- The Persecuted Church--The church persecuted by the Romans
Pergamos--The Compromising Church--The church that became adopted paganism to become 'popular' with Rome
Thyatira--The Corrupt Church--The Church of the Middle Ages that that preached Faith by Works
Sardis-The Dead Church-- What the Church of the Middle Ages eventually became because of its corruption
Philadelphia---The Faithful Church-- The Church of the Reformation in the 1600's to 1800's
Laodicea--The Luke-Warm Church--- The modern Church, where people go to be bored on Sunday because 'its the thing to do'. (or else it is the place to go to play "Bingo") or don't bother worrying about whose going to be the next Supreme Court Justice.

Thus, the current age we are living in (Luke-warm, Laodicea Age) is the last before Christ's second coming.

I whole-heartedly agree with Schofeild and the others who believe this is part of the prophecy of Revelations.

Isn't Rev. 3:10, according to Scofield, supposed to be the Rapture (Philadelphia). In that case, it should have already happened, since, according to you, we are now in the Laodicean age.


Like I said earlier. Ridiculous.

[PHIL121]

As opposed to preterism...which is basically blasphemy

[puritan lad]

As opposed to preterism...which is basically blasphemy

Says Who???

[PHIL121]

Some support for the belief that the Seven Letters demonstrate the history of the Church....

The Loveless Church

1 “To the angel of the church of Ephesus write,
'These things says He who holds the seven stars in His right hand, who walks in the midst of the seven golden lampstands: 2 “I know your works, your labor, your patience, and that you cannot bear those who are evil. And you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars; 3 and you have persevered and have patience, and have labored for My name's sake and have not become weary. 4 Nevertheless I have this against you, that you have left your first love. 5 Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place—unless you repent. 6 But this you have, that you hate the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.
7 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God.”'

Verse 2 describes the activites of Pharisees who manipulated the law to have Jesus Crucified.
Verse 3 describes how the Jewish nation had perservered under hardship.
Verse 4 describes how both the Jews and the Disciples (most notably Peter) had "left their first love; The Messiah.
Verse 5 is a warning to "remove the lampstand" the symbol of the Jewish church, unless it repents.

[PHIL121]

The Persecuted Church
8 “And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write, 'These things says the First and the Last, who was dead, and came to life: 9 “I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich); and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. 10 Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life. 11 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death.”'

Verse 9 shows how the early Church struggled against persecutions. In addition, the conflcit of the Galatian Church is mentioned.
Verse 10 tells of the persecution the Church will suffer under the Roman rule.
It should also be noted that Polycarp, one of the early Christian martyrs, met his fate in Smyrna.

[puritan lad]

Phil,

While this is a very creative (and popular) interpretation, it has no support from the Bible itself.

John says that he is writing to seven First Century Churches in Asia. The fact that they are named and located shows them to be literal churches. John showed an accurate knowledge of the state of those churches at that time (which I have shown to be around 66 AD). He is writing about imminent events. Consider the following...

Greek “tachos” and “en tachei”, which mean "quickly, all at once, with all speed, without delay.“Rev. 1:1 - "...things which must shortly take place"
Rev. 2:16 - "Repent, or else I will come to you quickly"
Rev. 3:11 - "Behold, I come quickly!"
Rev. 22:6 - "...things which must shortly take place."
Rev. 22:7 - "Behold, I am coming quickly!"
Rev. 22:12 - "Behold, I am coming quickly."
Rev. 22:20 - "Surely I am coming quickly."

Greek “engus”, which means “near” or “at hand”.
Rev. 1:3 - "The time is near."
Rev. 22:10 - "The time is at hand."

Greek word “mello”, which means “about to” or “on the verge of”.
Rev. 1:19 - "Write ... the things that are about to take place."
Rev. 3:10 - "... the hour of trial ... is about to come upon the whole world."

John is writing to the seven churches of Asia Minor (he says so himself) to prepare them for some cataclysmic event, and this event was to take place very soon, within a short amount of time. There is not mention of Pharisees, Peter, Jesus' Disiples, the Galatian Church, or Polycarp. John neer gives any himt that the seven churches are supposed to represent anything other then seven churches. While we can certainly take lessons from each of the letters to the seven churches and apply them to our churches today, we must hold them as only that, applications. The prophecy itself was to seven first century churches. It was they who were to "read, hear, and keep" the words of this prophecy, which would have been impossible according to the historicist or futurist viewpoint.

[PHIL121]

The Compromising Church

12 “And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write, 'These things says He who has the sharp two-edged sword: 13 “I know your works, and where you dwell, where Satan's throne is. And you hold fast to My name, and did not deny My faith even in the days in which Antipas was My faithful martyr, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells. 14 But I have a few things against you, because you have there those who hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols, and to commit sexual immorality. 15 Thus you also have those who hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.[a] 16 Repent, or else I will come to you quickly and will fight against them with the sword of My mouth. 17 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give some of the hidden manna to eat. And I will give him a white stone, and on the stone a new name written which no one knows except him who receives it.”'

In verse 12 it can be noted the Roman gladuius(sp), their most feared weapon, was two edged.

Verse 13 mentions "Satan's throne". When the Church became accepted by the Roman empire (often viewed by the Apostles to be Satan's empire) Rome became the seat of Christian power.

Verse 14 and 15 makes reference to many of the 'religious' practices of the Roman empire before it became Christian.

It should be noted from verse 16 that while the Roman empire had survived for roughly 700 years as a pagan culture, it split, then disintingrated within 200 years of accepting Christianity.

[puritan lad]

The Compromising Church

12 “And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write, 'These things says He who has the sharp two-edged sword:

In verse 12 it can be noted the Roman gladuius(sp), their most feared weapon, was two edged.

It is Christ who is speaking above, not a Roman.

[PHIL121]

The Corrupt Church

18 “And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write, 'These things says the Son of God, who has eyes like a flame of fire, and His feet like fine brass: 19 “I know your works, love, service, faith, and your patience; and as for your works, the last are more than the first. 20 Nevertheless I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduceMy servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols. 21 And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent. 22 Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds. 23 I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts. And I will give to each one of you according to your works. 24 “Now to you I say, and to the rest in Thyatira, as many as do not have this doctrine, who have not known the depths of Satan, as they say, I will put on you no other burden. 25 But hold fast what you have till I come. 26 And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations-
27 ' He shall rule them with a rod of iron;
They shall be dashed to pieces like the potter's vessels'-
as I also have received from My Father; 28 and I will give him the morning star.29 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches

In verse 19 the Church of the Middle ages is commended for its works. The Church was responsible froholding civilization together during the Dark Ages.

Verses 20 and 21 mention Jezebel, and how she teaches God's servents to commit sexual immorality. In the 14th century, seven popes in sucession moved to Avingnon, France rather than reside in Rome, becoming quite 'friendly' with the Kings of France.

When the Papacy returned to Rome, the disputed election of suceeding Popes (The first 'Great Schism') caused the Church to thrown into "great tribulation" (Verse 24)

After the first Great Schism, the Papacy became more involved in Italian politics, and remains so until the present day, being a sovreign land-locked State with Rome, "holding fast" (Verse 25) until the Second Coming.

Verse 27, which is taken from Psalm 2, uses the same imagery of Daniel 2:40-44, which describes the last great World kingdom whose feet are made or iron mixed with clay.

[bob2010]

phil, i dont think posting more and more of the same stuff is going to change anyone's mind.
im quite curious as to why you think preterism is blasphemy. if you are talking about full preterism id agree with you. if it is orthodox preterism, i would have to disagree.
im also with puritan lad on the timing statements. John basicly exhausts the greek language of ways to say all this stuff is going to happen soon.

[PHIL121]

phil, i dont think posting more and more of the same stuff is going to change anyone's mind.

Who says I'm trying to "change people's minds". That's for our wonderful Orwellian public servants to do.

I'm simply stating what the Holy Spirit has reveled to me.
One of those things is that preterism is blasphemy, because it is inherently anti-semetic.