Atheist & Christian Testimonies

[Kurieuo]

Really today, I'm kind of interested in the stories behind people more than the debate.

For it is in a person's story you can find some understanding for their beliefs, and not the end resulting arguments, tit-for-tatting, etc.

So I was just looking around and came across two testimonies.

One about Christian who became can Atheist:



And another about an Atheist who became Christian:



I believe both can provide a lot of understanding to the side that you fall down on.

[RickD]

The girl in the first video made a common mistake. On one hand, she says she's an atheist. And on the other hand, in the video, she says she's not sure if God is real or not.

I'd say she's more of an agnostic, by definition.

It's interesting that she admitted she had blind faith, and really had no logical basis for her belief. And she asked some difficult questions to other Christians, who weren't prepared to give her answers she needed. If she's really as honest as she claims to be, she should do some research on her own, like the lady in the second video.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but I cannot understand how a believer, who has the indwelling Holy Spirit, can do a complete 180 and not believe in God. Even Christians who believe because the bible says so, and haven't studied the historical truth about Jesus Christ, or studied the difficult questions posed by unbelievers, etc., still have the Holy Spirit to guide them.

[Silvertusk]

This is why apologetics is so so important.

The first girl was obviously not exposed to any.

[PaulSacramento]

If your faith is based on things you have been told or how some one else interpreted the bible and it has never been questioned, then it can be a very weak faith indeed.
This is why Christians are asked and reminded to have a personal relationship with Christ and to put their faith in HIM.
When a religion tells you to obey (Judaism) or submit ( Islam) then it a very different type of faith is needed then a religion that asks you to choose ( Christianity).

[Byblos]

I'm not saying it's impossible, but I cannot understand how a believer, who has the indwelling Holy Spirit, can do a complete 180 and not believe in God. Even Christians who believe because the bible says so, and haven't studied the historical truth about Jesus Christ, or studied the difficult questions posed by unbelievers, etc., still have the Holy Spirit to guide them.

Perhaps she was never really assured she was saved.

[RickD]

I'm not saying it's impossible, but I cannot understand how a believer, who has the indwelling Holy Spirit, can do a complete 180 and not believe in God. Even Christians who believe because the bible says so, and haven't studied the historical truth about Jesus Christ, or studied the difficult questions posed by unbelievers, etc., still have the Holy Spirit to guide them.

Perhaps she was never really assured she was saved.

[PaulSacramento]

Bart Ehrman is a good example.
A devote evangelical that lost his faith because he believed that the bible was without error and upon studying and realizing that it did have what can be viewed as errors, he lost his faith.
He lost faith in a thing that he viewed as being the center of his faith. He made the bible and not Christ, what he had faith in, or perhaps more correctly, he put his faith on what HE THOUGHT the bible was and when he found it it wasn't what he THOUGHT, he lost faith.

[abelcainsbrother]

Bart Ehrman is a good example.
A devote evangelical that lost his faith because he believed that the bible was without error and upon studying and realizing that it did have what can be viewed as errors, he lost his faith.
He lost faith in a thing that he viewed as being the center of his faith. He made the bible and not Christ, what he had faith in, or perhaps more correctly, he put his faith on what HE THOUGHT the bible was and when he found it it wasn't what he THOUGHT, he lost faith.

I thought Ehrman lost his faith because of suffering in this world,but I guess it could be both or a combination of things.

[abelcainsbrother]

I wonder if somebody could post the links to these videos?I cannot view them.

[abelcainsbrother]

I also think that atheist talking points can be deceptive because they can make what seems to be an intelligent persuasive argument against God.They can twist the bible all out of context and make people think the God of the bible is evil,so that a person who buys into their arguments could not believe in God if they wanted to,at the very least they could be a deist.

But what people don't realize is that atheists do not understand the bible properly or the context of what the bible says so that they can seem to make a very persuasive argument that the God of the bible is evil.Interestingly enough Satan used scripture to try to deceive Jesus and he did the same thing atheists do,he twisted it out of context but it did not work with Jesus who knew scripture perfectly so that every time I hear an atheist teach from the bible it reminds me of Satan tempting Jesus.

Atheists really believe that God was for slavery and condoned it and yet they are so wrong.

[Kurieuo]

Bart Ehrman is a good example.
A devote evangelical that lost his faith because he believed that the bible was without error and upon studying and realizing that it did have what can be viewed as errors, he lost his faith.
He lost faith in a thing that he viewed as being the center of his faith. He made the bible and not Christ, what he had faith in, or perhaps more correctly, he put his faith on what HE THOUGHT the bible was and when he found it it wasn't what he THOUGHT, he lost faith.

I thought Ehrman lost his faith because of suffering in this world,but I guess it could be both or a combination of things.

Really, I think the reasons people put forward about why they changed one way or the other -- is more a trying to explain after the fact.

It's kind of like a growing child. For example, I see my kids grow up day after day, and while I know they are physically growing and changing I don't really notice.
Then someone who hasn't seen the for even just a couple of months says "my how you've grown" or how they've changed in this or that way.
When we are adults we normally just receive a "have you put on weight" (if they're brave enough) or "have you lost weight"

And so this is like someone who changes from Atheism to Chrsitianity or vice-versa. In other words, the changes are progressive.
So what people say should be taken as just a snapshot of perhaps defining points and thoughts they remember.
Such that "suddenly" I'm now a Christian, or actually an "Atheist".

I don't believe Ehrman turned away from Christ just because he saw difficulties in the Bible, nor was it just some moral complaint.
These things may have been contributing factors -- stumbling blocks for him.
Instead it ultimately it boils down to a willful choice to turn against God (which is hard to accept in our Western societies which loves putting an external or physical reason for why we are this way or that way).

Everything else that can be thought up to justify why we believe this way or not that, is just really mud to sling to try and justify and put reason to why we lost or gained faith.
How is it otherwise, that Ehrman and William Lane Craig, who studied together and had the same roots reach diametrically opposite positions?
I don't believe one is more honest then the other. Rather we ultimately have two different dispositions.

There are stumbling blocks, but I think whether they are overcome or seen as a dead end, comes down to the person and where their heart is.
Atheists who become Christian often have a stumbling block for a long period of time in their life which gets overcome for various reasons such that their heart wins out.
Christians who have become Atheist often have stumbling blocks it seems which they repeated have to cross over and over and over because they perhaps ultimately don't really care to deal with it.

At the end of the day I doubt it was any one thing, but a number of contributing factors -- first and foremost our own self.
Scripture is clear that our very inner part, our hearts, are involved in our (that is, all of us) rebellion against God, and then so also in our decision to accept Christ (which God is also active in).

[1over137]

The links to the video can be obtained this way:

Quote the post just to see the youtube key strings
FibyVN2zc2E
rA3n2zZlLdw

Add the key string after this
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=

And links are then
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FibyVN2zc2E
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rA3n2zZlLdw

Edit: why you cannot see videos? What happens? What error message it gives?

[abelcainsbrother]

The links to the video can be obtained this way:

Quote the post just to see the youtube key strings
FibyVN2zc2E
rA3n2zZlLdw

Add the key string after this
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=

And links are then
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FibyVN2zc2E
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rA3n2zZlLdw

Edit: why you cannot see videos? What happens? What error message it gives?

I can tell videos were imbedded but it says couldn't load plug in where they are imbedded but thanks for the links.

[PaulSacramento]

Bart Ehrman is a good example.
A devote evangelical that lost his faith because he believed that the bible was without error and upon studying and realizing that it did have what can be viewed as errors, he lost his faith.
He lost faith in a thing that he viewed as being the center of his faith. He made the bible and not Christ, what he had faith in, or perhaps more correctly, he put his faith on what HE THOUGHT the bible was and when he found it it wasn't what he THOUGHT, he lost faith.

I thought Ehrman lost his faith because of suffering in this world,but I guess it could be both or a combination of things.

His path away from Christ was due to his studies that put into question his understanding of an inerrant bible.

[RickD]

Bart Ehrman is a good example.
A devote evangelical that lost his faith because he believed that the bible was without error and upon studying and realizing that it did have what can be viewed as errors, he lost his faith.
He lost faith in a thing that he viewed as being the center of his faith. He made the bible and not Christ, what he had faith in, or perhaps more correctly, he put his faith on what HE THOUGHT the bible was and when he found it it wasn't what he THOUGHT, he lost faith.

I thought Ehrman lost his faith because of suffering in this world,but I guess it could be both or a combination of things.

His path away from Christ was due to his studies that put into question his understanding of an inerrant bible.

So, you're saying he threw out the baby (Jesus) with the bath water?

If what you're saying is true Paul, isn't that a little extreme, to throw away one's faith in Christ, because he didn't believe the bible to be inerrant?

That's almost like me not only divorcing my wife, but also saying she doesn't even exist, just because I saw some things that I thought were mistakes in her autobiography!