B.W you make me smile, I appreciate your warmth and insight as always.B. W. wrote:God reveals his nature of being, the Trinity, in the bible. From there, he teaches each of us in various ways that reveals himself as he is. Some folks are more able to understand philosophically, others, visually, others through use of language, others through logic, and so it goes.
From Romans chapter one, those that are visual see the triune nature of God in the makeup of living creation. For example, the three sections that make one Orange an Orange is seen and understood. Another person who understands philosophy and logic would scoff at such an example and reason against it due to a philosophic-logic-centric world view.
The point I am trying to make is to simply understand that people do not think in the same terms and ways. Some are more visual, others more language oriented, still others more scientific, other logical and philosophical and too each God reveals himself in ways individuals can grasp his nature of being. Our mistake, is to say there is only one way to understand that trumps all others and be chest thumping proud about it.
As a friend of mine coined the phrase: God is Omni-personal, I use it here as well too. God reveals himself, in due time, revealing and teaching to each believer about himself in an Omni-personal manner that helps each individual uncover the truth about God’s nature in a manner she or he grasps best. This is but one example of God being a living God, being alive and well to his own people. The Holy Spirit teaches us, even when a believer in Jesus does not understand the Holy Spirit. A force or power cannot instruct only compel. Jesus did say, the Holy Spirit will instruct, teach, lead, and guide. A compulsionary force cannot do these things as there is a difference between being pushed along, and being freely instructed/reasoned with.
For me, I came to grasp God’s nature through the bible in a more visual and study of the original language sorts of ways. I understand the philosophic and logic ways now too and discover there is no competition between the two methods, nor is one way better than the other as God reveals his triune nature of being to each in a manner she or he can grasp best.
There is a common denominator though and that God reveals through truth and His word he left to us. The fact in both Old and New Testaments God reveals the Holy Spirit as ‘person’ and not as ‘force’ is compelling for both visually and logically inclined minded believers. So with this, Melanie, you are not far from grasping the truth as the Lord is instructing you and who is instructing is not a force.
Blessings
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I like that, Omni-personal, I might steal it
I do understand the concept of the trinity and have studied scripture in regards to this, more so than any other doctrine. Truth be known because I wanted to believe, and as Rick said what I believe is actually not that far off.
It has been said that the trinity is the cornerstone of christianity and I say Christ is the cornerstone.
As soon as someone says that they don't uphold the trinity as understood in orthodox theology certain ideas come to mind. Disputing Christ' Divinity, denominational church dogma like the JW's. But I don't uphold or believe in JW theology, although I do consider them quite possibly 'saved' although stumbling like the rest of us in some way. I do believe in Christ' Divinity because scripture and the HS lead me there.
I have never said that the Holy Spirit is an impersonal force. I don't believe that is the case. I think when a person makes a statement we attach pre conceived ideas onto what they are saying. Other people that deny the trinity argue as such, but I dont. I couldn't imagine anything more personal, more Godly than His Omnipresence in me, in my brother, my sister, with my child when they pray, here, on earth, in heaven, everywhere. I believe He does this by the magnificence of His being, the Holy Spirit is not an impersonal force, far from it. It is my Father and My Saviour, it is their light, their will, their brilliance, their power being ignited within me, within believers. It speaks to us, compels us, teaches us, guides us.
People say that if you don't believe the HS is a person then you are denying Him worship. I can tell you now, the HS has brought me to my knees and changed me. Through struggles and tears and smiles the work that the HS has done in my life has lead me to be every day a better version of myself than the day before. And for that gratitude doesn't even cut it, I am subservient, and overwhelmed that my God, my Saviour, the HS living within me, which is not impersonal but God in everyway that I could possibly articulate cares and loves me so much that He abides within my spirit and thinks I'm worthy enough to embrace and cleanse my spirit and renew my heart.
You said B.W that if the Holy Spirit is the presence of God then He is a person called God.
Yes.
He is God.
It is God.
In every way imaginable.
because it actually IS HIM. In every way your spirit is you.
