Studies that say NDEs are not real.

[Kenny]

So your think that a person can be an atheist even if they believe in the existence of the God of the Bible and believe that He is creator of everything, but denies that He is a God but is perhaps a spirit, fairy, etc...

Yes. That is not MY position, and I doubt there are many atheists who feel that way, but in theory, a person can take that position and still be atheist.

and then when asked how you define God you say "Creator of the universe, non evolving always existing".

Yes. That's my definition. Another atheist might have another definition. My definition is influenced by my christian upbringing.

The dictionary definition of an atheist is someone who lacks a belief in God, but you're saying that there are atheists out there who might believe that the God of the Bible exists but not recognize Him as God, even though your definition of God is the same as how the Bible defines God.

You don't see a contradiction there?

The Aztec believed in a Sun God. I believe the God of their religion exist; I can see it in the sky right now. But because I don't recognize it as God, I am not a Sun worshipper.

Ken

[NobodySpecial]

So your think that a person can be an atheist even if they believe in the existence of the God of the Bible and believe that He is creator of everything, but denies that He is a God but is perhaps a spirit, fairy, etc...

Yes. That is not MY position, and I doubt there are many atheists who feel that way, but in theory, a person can take that position and still be atheist.

and then when asked how you define God you say "Creator of the universe, non evolving always existing".

Yes. That's my definition. Another atheist might have another definition. My definition is influenced by my christian upbringing.
I'm confused.

The dictionary definition of an atheist is someone who lacks a belief in God, but you're saying that there are atheists out there who might believe that the God of the Bible exists but not recognize Him as God, even though your definition of God is the same as how the Bible defines God.

You don't see a contradiction there?

The Aztec believed in a Sun God. I believe the God of their religion exist; I can see it in the sky right now. But because I don't recognize it as God, I am not a Sun worshipper.

Ken

Whether or not you worship God isn't really the question. To claim to be an atheist then by definition you lack the belief in the existence of God. If you believe that God exists, you just don't want to worship Him then you're an antitheist not an atheist.

[Kenny]

Kenny why is it so hard to believe God is eternal and all-powerful and can cause and create universe easy compared to believing that all things do not have a cause and are not caused by something else in our universe and world.Can you name one thing in our world that did not have a cause and was not caused by something else? No because it is impossible,nothing happens without a cause and things that are caused have a cause.No matter if we talk about people,tornadoes,hurricanes,universes,particles,plants,trees,TV's,radio's,tables,chairs,everything around you,etc all have a cause and are caused by something else.

Wow! You ask me a question, then you answer it yourself! I've heard of straw men, but what do you call this? How do you know all that exists has a cause?

K

[abelcainsbrother]

You can even raise the stakes even further by pointing out that all things that are caused are willed into being just like God willed this universe and everything in it and was the cause of it.

[Kenny]

No atheist has ever been able to refute St Thomas Aquinas's philosophy after all of these years.Atheists still believe in infinite regression even today after all of these years even though it is impossible and has never been proven or demonstrated to be possible after all of these hundreds of years later.So don't feel bad Kenny just try to acknowledge this truth.

Kenny said:
Have I or any other atheist on this forum claimed to believe in "infinite regression"? I know I haven't, and I think I've made it quite clear that I don't embrace that idea; yet you keep insisting that I do! Why do you do that? Do you just like building straw men?

Ken

Kenny it is impossible not to if you deny God even if you don't know what infinite regression means.I'm not insulting you or accusing you of anything untrue. But to deny God you do have faith that infinite regression is possible you just probably don't know what infinite regression means but it means that you believe some things do not have a cause and that the things that are not caused are not caused by something else,which is impossible and is what you believe if you reject God.There is no way around it.

For the person who believes matter has always existed and simply evolved to what we have right now, how does infinite regression fit into that belief?

Ken

[Kenny]

So your think that a person can be an atheist even if they believe in the existence of the God of the Bible and believe that He is creator of everything, but denies that He is a God but is perhaps a spirit, fairy, etc...

Yes. That is not MY position, and I doubt there are many atheists who feel that way, but in theory, a person can take that position and still be atheist.

and then when asked how you define God you say "Creator of the universe, non evolving always existing".

Yes. That's my definition. Another atheist might have another definition. My definition is influenced by my christian upbringing.
I'm confused.

The dictionary definition of an atheist is someone who lacks a belief in God, but you're saying that there are atheists out there who might believe that the God of the Bible exists but not recognize Him as God, even though your definition of God is the same as how the Bible defines God.

You don't see a contradiction there?

The Aztec believed in a Sun God. I believe the God of their religion exist; I can see it in the sky right now. But because I don't recognize it as God, I am not a Sun worshipper.

Ken

Whether or not you worship God isn't really the question. To claim to be an atheist then by definition you lack the belief in the existence of God. If you believe that God exists, you just don't want to worship Him then you're an antitheist not an atheist.

And which God does this apply to? All Gods or just yours.

Ken

[NobodySpecial]

So your think that a person can be an atheist even if they believe in the existence of the God of the Bible and believe that He is creator of everything, but denies that He is a God but is perhaps a spirit, fairy, etc...

Yes. That is not MY position, and I doubt there are many atheists who feel that way, but in theory, a person can take that position and still be atheist.

and then when asked how you define God you say "Creator of the universe, non evolving always existing".

Yes. That's my definition. Another atheist might have another definition. My definition is influenced by my christian upbringing.
I'm confused.

The dictionary definition of an atheist is someone who lacks a belief in God, but you're saying that there are atheists out there who might believe that the God of the Bible exists but not recognize Him as God, even though your definition of God is the same as how the Bible defines God.

You don't see a contradiction there?

The Aztec believed in a Sun God. I believe the God of their religion exist; I can see it in the sky right now. But because I don't recognize it as God, I am not a Sun worshipper.

Ken

Whether or not you worship God isn't really the question. To claim to be an atheist then by definition you lack the belief in the existence of God. If you believe that God exists, you just don't want to worship Him then you're an antitheist not an atheist.

And which God does this apply to? All Gods or just yours.

Ken

The definition of an atheist doesn't discriminate which god you don't believe in, it simply states "lack of belief in God or gods". So to believe that ANY God exists is to hold a belief inconsistent with the definition of an atheist.

I use the term antitheist for people who believe that the God of the Bible exists, but don't want to worship Him and claim that because they don't want to worship Him they are atheist.

There are Muslims who worship Allah who I would not use the term antitheist for them because none of them claim to be atheist.

[abelcainsbrother]

Kenny why is it so hard to believe God is eternal and all-powerful and can cause and create universe easy compared to believing that all things do not have a cause and are not caused by something else in our universe and world.Can you name one thing in our world that did not have a cause and was not caused by something else? No because it is impossible,nothing happens without a cause and things that are caused have a cause.No matter if we talk about people,tornadoes,hurricanes,universes,particles,plants,trees,TV's,radio's,tables,chairs,everything around you,etc all have a cause and are caused by something else.

Wow! You ask me a question, then you answer it yourself! I've heard of straw men, but what do you call this? How do you know all that exists has a cause?

K

Because we know by logic,reason and reality that everything around us in this world has a cause.What makes you ask? How do we know all things have a cause? I was only pointing out how if you reject God you believe some things do not have a cause in our universe and world.Come on man,don't feel insulted and acknowledge that because you reject God as the cause of this universe and everything thing in it you believe infinite regression is possible,you believe that it is possible this universe and everything in it can be caused without a cause even though this is pure imagination,outside logic reason,reality and the world around you.

[abelcainsbrother]

No atheist has ever been able to refute St Thomas Aquinas's philosophy after all of these years.Atheists still believe in infinite regression even today after all of these years even though it is impossible and has never been proven or demonstrated to be possible after all of these hundreds of years later.So don't feel bad Kenny just try to acknowledge this truth.

Kenny said:
Have I or any other atheist on this forum claimed to believe in "infinite regression"? I know I haven't, and I think I've made it quite clear that I don't embrace that idea; yet you keep insisting that I do! Why do you do that? Do you just like building straw men?

Ken

Kenny it is impossible not to if you deny God even if you don't know what infinite regression means.I'm not insulting you or accusing you of anything untrue. But to deny God you do have faith that infinite regression is possible you just probably don't know what infinite regression means but it means that you believe some things do not have a cause and that the things that are not caused are not caused by something else,which is impossible and is what you believe if you reject God.There is no way around it.

For the person who believes matter has always existed and simply evolved to what we have right now, how does infinite regression fit into that belief?

Ken

You believe the matter and even evolution did not have a cause and was not caused by something else.

[Kenny]

So your think that a person can be an atheist even if they believe in the existence of the God of the Bible and believe that He is creator of everything, but denies that He is a God but is perhaps a spirit, fairy, etc...

Yes. That is not MY position, and I doubt there are many atheists who feel that way, but in theory, a person can take that position and still be atheist.

and then when asked how you define God you say "Creator of the universe, non evolving always existing".

Yes. That's my definition. Another atheist might have another definition. My definition is influenced by my christian upbringing.
I'm confused.

The dictionary definition of an atheist is someone who lacks a belief in God, but you're saying that there are atheists out there who might believe that the God of the Bible exists but not recognize Him as God, even though your definition of God is the same as how the Bible defines God.

You don't see a contradiction there?

The Aztec believed in a Sun God. I believe the God of their religion exist; I can see it in the sky right now. But because I don't recognize it as God, I am not a Sun worshipper.

Ken

Whether or not you worship God isn't really the question. To claim to be an atheist then by definition you lack the belief in the existence of God. If you believe that God exists, you just don't want to worship Him then you're an antitheist not an atheist.

And which God does this apply to? All Gods or just yours.

Ken

The definition of an atheist doesn't discriminate which god you don't believe in, it simply states "lack of belief in God or gods". So to believe that ANY God exists is to hold a belief inconsistent with the definition of an atheist.

The dictionary defines it as "lack of belief in God or Gods. It doesn't say "lack of belief in the existence of what someone might call God". Again; people worship the Sun. You believe in the existence of the Sun. Does this make you anti theist because you don't want to worship it?

Ken

[Kenny]

Kenny why is it so hard to believe God is eternal and all-powerful and can cause and create universe easy compared to believing that all things do not have a cause and are not caused by something else in our universe and world.Can you name one thing in our world that did not have a cause and was not caused by something else? No because it is impossible,nothing happens without a cause and things that are caused have a cause.No matter if we talk about people,tornadoes,hurricanes,universes,particles,plants,trees,TV's,radio's,tables,chairs,everything around you,etc all have a cause and are caused by something else.

Wow! You ask me a question, then you answer it yourself! I've heard of straw men, but what do you call this? How do you know all that exists has a cause?

K

Because we know by logic,reason and reality that everything around us in this world has a cause.

We? Who is we? Science doesn't claim everything in the Universe has a cause; so how do YOU know? Is this one of those faith things you guys are known to employ?

K

[Kenny]

No atheist has ever been able to refute St Thomas Aquinas's philosophy after all of these years.Atheists still believe in infinite regression even today after all of these years even though it is impossible and has never been proven or demonstrated to be possible after all of these hundreds of years later.So don't feel bad Kenny just try to acknowledge this truth.

Kenny said:
Have I or any other atheist on this forum claimed to believe in "infinite regression"? I know I haven't, and I think I've made it quite clear that I don't embrace that idea; yet you keep insisting that I do! Why do you do that? Do you just like building straw men?

Ken

Kenny it is impossible not to if you deny God even if you don't know what infinite regression means.I'm not insulting you or accusing you of anything untrue. But to deny God you do have faith that infinite regression is possible you just probably don't know what infinite regression means but it means that you believe some things do not have a cause and that the things that are not caused are not caused by something else,which is impossible and is what you believe if you reject God.There is no way around it.

For the person who believes matter has always existed and simply evolved to what we have right now, how does infinite regression fit into that belief?

Ken

You believe the matter and even evolution did not have a cause and was not caused by something else.

I suspect matter may have always existed and was not caused by something else. Now how does infinite regression fit into this scenario?

Ken

[abelcainsbrother]

Kenny look at it this way.I believe God is eternal,all-powerful who can will universes and everything in it into being like everything around you is and has been done.God can do miracles easy and can cause and create universes easy according to his will.

While you believe that matter and everything in this universe was not caused and was not willed into being,putting your faith in something that is impossible according to logic reason and reality,it is pure imagination for which there is no reason to believe this can happen and nothing to point to to show or demonstrate it can happen,nothing in this world shows it is possible and is pure imagination,no pun intended.

Kenny said :
I suspect matter may have always existed and was not caused by something else. Now how does infinite regression fit into this scenario?

Ken

This is exactly what I said you believe if you reject God- infinite regression.So see I was right and was not making up stuff about you like you do God thinking he is a created God.

[Kenny]

Kenny look at it this way.I believe God is eternal,all-powerful who can will universes and everything in it into being like everything around you is and has been done.God can do miracles easy and can cause and create universes easy according to his will.

While you believe that matter and everything in this universe was not caused and was not willed into being,putting your faith in something that is impossible according to logic reason and reality,it is pure imagination for which there is no reason to believe this can happen and nothing to point to to show or demonstrate it can happen,nothing in this world shows it is possible and is pure imagination,no pun intended.

Kenny said :
I suspect matter may have always existed and was not caused by something else. Now how does infinite regression fit into this scenario?

Ken

This is exactly what I said you believe if you reject God- infinite regression.So see I was right and was not making up stuff about you like you do God thinking he is a created God.

How is the belief that matter always existing, without a cause an example of "infinite regression"? Please explain.

Ken

[abelcainsbrother]

Kenny why is it so hard to believe God is eternal and all-powerful and can cause and create universe easy compared to believing that all things do not have a cause and are not caused by something else in our universe and world.Can you name one thing in our world that did not have a cause and was not caused by something else? No because it is impossible,nothing happens without a cause and things that are caused have a cause.No matter if we talk about people,tornadoes,hurricanes,universes,particles,plants,trees,TV's,radio's,tables,chairs,everything around you,etc all have a cause and are caused by something else.

Wow! You ask me a question, then you answer it yourself! I've heard of straw men, but what do you call this? How do you know all that exists has a cause?

K

Because we know by logic,reason and reality that everything around us in this world has a cause.

We? Who is we? Science doesn't claim everything in the Universe has a cause; so how do YOU know? Is this one of those faith things you guys are known to employ?

K

Yes,there are some scientists that promote infinite regression as possible but not one has been able to show,prove or demonstrate it can happen and they never will,because all things have a cause and all things that have a cause are caused by something else.You believe it is possible based on what? And all to reject God and who he says he is and what he can do?

Even them particles scientists talk about that I brought up have a cause.