Studies that say NDEs are not real.

[B. W.]

There is a method in this, it is called the art of debate...

Let me conclude then as you entrapped yourself: So let’s look honestly at what you recently said…

...Yes! That the value in life is BEFORE you die. Ken

I mentioned that your actions do not and cannot prove that you value life.

Let me make it clearer, on Page 11 you stated this:

I think you are confusing me with someone else. I never compared gold to life. BTW I do consider HUMAN life more valuable than gold, but there are plenty of other life forms I do not consider as valuable as Gold. Ken

But you stated this…

The fact that I will not be around a billion years from now doesn't mean what I do today doesn't matter; it matters TODAY. The more plentiful something is, the less valuable it becomes. If Gold were as common as lead, it would be worthless. The fact that life is as limited as it is makes it that much more precious while you have it. Living forever makes each precious moment of life practally worthless. I value my life more because it is limited. Ken

How can you say one thing,” the value in life is BEFORE you die.” and then say another thing on page 11, “but there are plenty of other life forms I do not consider as valuable as Gold.”

How then can life be valuable because it is rare because you have it only now in this life and the value in life is BEFORE you die, if there are plenty of life forms you do not consider as valuable as Gold is strikingly hypocritical isn’t it?

Again, thank you for helping me make my point – militant atheist like yourself do not value life but rather nothingness. This nothingness after you die is what your point of view values the most and defends with such blind faith! Like you, I once defended the same and used the same argument and debate style you use. Then one day, someone called me on it.

Cannot you see the irony you pose to yourself?

You cannot say you value life because the value of life is before one dies, that life is rare so that makes it valuable, and then say that there are some forms of life that you do not consider as valuable as gold. I do see that eternal life with our creator is one form of life you loathe as less than gold. If we can see this on this forum, wait till God reveals your heart to yourself.

My purpose in all this is this: your eternal destiny. I actually care about you so much that I have to slap your senses. I do know what I am talking about. There is an afterlife and judgement that will come which will expose the real you to yourself, God, and the all the universe to see. Without Jesus Christ, we are all ugly. We do indeed make life ugly all around us. Jesus came to release us from that so we can be restored to whom and what God created humanity be. He offered himself so we can offer ourselves to him. It is a simple choice. Make the right one.

If a low life like myself proved you in error on the alleged value on life you have (but there are plenty of other life forms I do not consider as valuable as Gold.) then think man what God himself will reveal to you after you die despising His free gift of eternal life?

I am trying to spare you of that with compassion that is not afraid to love you enough to slap some sense into your thick scull. You see, Ken, the difference between Christian and an atheist concerning the value of life is this: Christians value the life God has within himself, value this life in this here and now, and values the new life with God to come in the afterlife. A three cord strand of rope is stronger than one strand of rope. Atheist on the other hand only value nothing at the end of their rope.

Have a Nice Day

Never forget John 3:16
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[Kenny]

There is a method in this, it is called the art of debate...

Let me conclude then as you entrapped yourself: So let’s look honestly at what you recently said…

...Yes! That the value in life is BEFORE you die. Ken

I mentioned that your actions do not and cannot prove that you value life.

Let me make it clearer, on Page 11 you stated this:

I think you are confusing me with someone else. I never compared gold to life. BTW I do consider HUMAN life more valuable than gold, but there are plenty of other life forms I do not consider as valuable as Gold. Ken

But you stated this…

The fact that I will not be around a billion years from now doesn't mean what I do today doesn't matter; it matters TODAY. The more plentiful something is, the less valuable it becomes. If Gold were as common as lead, it would be worthless. The fact that life is as limited as it is makes it that much more precious while you have it. Living forever makes each precious moment of life practally worthless. I value my life more because it is limited. Ken

How can you say one thing,” the value in life is BEFORE you die.” and then say another thing on page 11, “but there are plenty of other life forms I do not consider as valuable as Gold.”

When I said “value in life before you die,” I was referring to Human life. When I said “plenty of other life forms not as valuable as Gold,” I was talking about non-human life forms.

How then can life be valuable because it is rare because you have it only now in this life and the value in life is BEFORE you die, if there are plenty of life forms you do not consider as valuable as Gold is strikingly hypocritical isn’t it?

I don’t understand why this is difficult to you to understand. Do you value all life forms more than Gold? Even insect pests? Virus? What about mosquitoes? Particularly the Anopheles mosquito that spreads malaria causing the death of countless people? Do you value their lives? More than Gold? If not then I think you see my point. If you do; explain why.


Ken

[B. W.]

...When I said “value in life before you die,” I was referring to Human life. When I said “plenty of other life forms not as valuable as Gold,” I was talking about non-human life forms.

How then can life be valuable because it is rare because you have it only now in this life and the value in life is BEFORE you die, if there are plenty of life forms you do not consider as valuable as Gold is strikingly hypocritical isn’t it?

I don’t understand why this is difficult to you to understand. Do you value all life forms more than Gold? Even insect pests? Virus? What about mosquitoes? Particularly the Anopheles mosquito that spreads malaria causing the death of countless people? Do you value their lives? More than Gold? If not then I think you see my point. If you do; explain why.

Ken

Do you value living Members of ISIS, Ken?

Do you value and respect the lives of Christians?

Do you value the life of child sex offenders, murderers, rapist?

...more than gold because life is rare

Therefore, do see the dilemma of your statement?

You are just like the rest of humanity. We all say we value human life more than insects but do we really? Some human life we value no more than an insect and some human life values us as insects. As noble as it sounds about valuing the rarity of life, Ken, you do not perfectly value human life.

There is no human being on this planet who does right, no not one. All are guilty and fall short of doing perfectly right. You even admitted to being imperfect and since imperfect, you cannot value all human life perfectly, can you?

Like the rest of humanity you need redemption.

and some human life values us as insects

Warning graphic pictures in this news article - value all human life - really - what of the perps lives?

So Ken do you really value the life of people like this?

And just think of it, according to the atheist point of view, these folks got away with doing these things, escaping into the oblivion of nothingness!
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[Kenny]

...When I said “value in life before you die,” I was referring to Human life. When I said “plenty of other life forms not as valuable as Gold,” I was talking about non-human life forms.

How then can life be valuable because it is rare because you have it only now in this life and the value in life is BEFORE you die, if there are plenty of life forms you do not consider as valuable as Gold is strikingly hypocritical isn’t it?

I don’t understand why this is difficult to you to understand. Do you value all life forms more than Gold? Even insect pests? Virus? What about mosquitoes? Particularly the Anopheles mosquito that spreads malaria causing the death of countless people? Do you value their lives? More than Gold? If not then I think you see my point. If you do; explain why.

Ken

Do you value living Members of ISIS, Ken?

Do you value and respect the lives of Christians?

Do you value the life of child sex offenders, murderers, rapist?

...more than gold because life is rare

Therefore, do see the dilemma of your statement?

I was very clear that I was referring to non-human life when I made that statement.

You are just like the rest of humanity. We all say we value human life more than insects but do we really? Some human life we value no more than an insect

We??? No! You gonna have to speak for yourself on that one buddy; I value all human life more than insects.

and some human life values us as insects. As noble as it sounds about valuing the rarity of life, Ken, you do not perfectly value human life.

Perfectly value human life? What does that mean?

There is no human being on this planet who does right, no not one.

Again; speak for yourself. I do more right than I do wrong.

All are guilty and fall short of doing perfectly right. You even admitted to being imperfect and since imperfect, you cannot value all human life perfectly, can you?

You need to explain the difference between valuing human life, and valuing human life perfectly. But at the end of the day, just because I am not perfect doesn’t mean I don’t value human life.

Ken

[B. W.]

...When I said “value in life before you die,” I was referring to Human life. When I said “plenty of other life forms not as valuable as Gold,” I was talking about non-human life forms.

How then can life be valuable because it is rare because you have it only now in this life and the value in life is BEFORE you die, if there are plenty of life forms you do not consider as valuable as Gold is strikingly hypocritical isn’t it?

I don’t understand why this is difficult to you to understand. Do you value all life forms more than Gold? Even insect pests? Virus? What about mosquitoes? Particularly the Anopheles mosquito that spreads malaria causing the death of countless people? Do you value their lives? More than Gold? If not then I think you see my point. If you do; explain why.

Ken

Do you value living Members of ISIS, Ken?

Do you value and respect the lives of Christians?

Do you value the life of child sex offenders, murderers, rapist?

...more than gold because life is rare

Therefore, do see the dilemma of your statement?

I was very clear that I was referring to non-human life when I made that statement.

You are just like the rest of humanity. We all say we value human life more than insects but do we really? Some human life we value no more than an insect

We??? No! You gonna have to speak for yourself on that one buddy; I value all human life more than insects.

and some human life values us as insects. As noble as it sounds about valuing the rarity of life, Ken, you do not perfectly value human life.

Perfectly value human life? What does that mean?

There is no human being on this planet who does right, no not one.

Again; speak for yourself. I do more right than I do wrong.

All are guilty and fall short of doing perfectly right. You even admitted to being imperfect and since imperfect, you cannot value all human life perfectly, can you?

You need to explain the difference between valuing human life, and valuing human life perfectly. But at the end of the day, just because I am not perfect doesn’t mean I don’t value human life.

Ken

I was clear,

You say you value life - so do you value life of ISIS members, Child molesters, the same as you own?

Look at the links provided and let us know.

Next, what good is doing any right if then at the end of your rope there is only nothing?
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[Kenny]

...When I said “value in life before you die,” I was referring to Human life. When I said “plenty of other life forms not as valuable as Gold,” I was talking about non-human life forms.

How then can life be valuable because it is rare because you have it only now in this life and the value in life is BEFORE you die, if there are plenty of life forms you do not consider as valuable as Gold is strikingly hypocritical isn’t it?

I don’t understand why this is difficult to you to understand. Do you value all life forms more than Gold? Even insect pests? Virus? What about mosquitoes? Particularly the Anopheles mosquito that spreads malaria causing the death of countless people? Do you value their lives? More than Gold? If not then I think you see my point. If you do; explain why.

Ken

Do you value living Members of ISIS, Ken?

Do you value and respect the lives of Christians?

Do you value the life of child sex offenders, murderers, rapist?

...more than gold because life is rare

Therefore, do see the dilemma of your statement?

I was very clear that I was referring to non-human life when I made that statement.

You are just like the rest of humanity. We all say we value human life more than insects but do we really? Some human life we value no more than an insect

We??? No! You gonna have to speak for yourself on that one buddy; I value all human life more than insects.

and some human life values us as insects. As noble as it sounds about valuing the rarity of life, Ken, you do not perfectly value human life.

Perfectly value human life? What does that mean?

There is no human being on this planet who does right, no not one.

Again; speak for yourself. I do more right than I do wrong.

All are guilty and fall short of doing perfectly right. You even admitted to being imperfect and since imperfect, you cannot value all human life perfectly, can you?

You need to explain the difference between valuing human life, and valuing human life perfectly. But at the end of the day, just because I am not perfect doesn’t mean I don’t value human life.

Ken

I was clear,

You say you value life - so do you value life of ISIS members, Child molesters, the same as you own?

I believe all human lives are equal, regardless of behavior; good or bad.

Look at the links provided and let us know.

I refuse to look at any link preceded with a "graphic photo" warning

Next, what good is doing any right if then at the end of your rope there is only nothing?

My dad used to say; Integrity is the DESIRE to do the right thing; even when nobody's looking. For a person with no integrity your question makes perfect sense. But for myself, I don't need to be bribed,, I don't need a reward, and I don't need anyone looking over my shoulder to do the right thing.

Ken

[RickD]

Ken wrote:
My dad used to say; Integrity is the DESIRE to do the right thing; even when nobody's looking. For a person with no integrity your question makes perfect sense. But for myself, I don't need to be bribed,, I don't need a reward, and I don't need anyone looking over my shoulder to do the right thing.

Kenny,

You're STILL not getting it!!!

If there's no God, no objective right and wrong, your doing the right thing is ultimately meaningless! "Right" has no meaning in that sense.

[Kenny]

Ken wrote:
My dad used to say; Integrity is the DESIRE to do the right thing; even when nobody's looking. For a person with no integrity your question makes perfect sense. But for myself, I don't need to be bribed,, I don't need a reward, and I don't need anyone looking over my shoulder to do the right thing.

Kenny,

You're STILL not getting it!!!

If there's no God, no objective right and wrong, your doing the right thing is ultimately meaningless! "Right" has no meaning in that sense.

Explain why doing the right thing is meaningless without God.

Ken

[RickD]

Ken wrote:
My dad used to say; Integrity is the DESIRE to do the right thing; even when nobody's looking. For a person with no integrity your question makes perfect sense. But for myself, I don't need to be bribed,, I don't need a reward, and I don't need anyone looking over my shoulder to do the right thing.

Kenny,

You're STILL not getting it!!!

If there's no God, no objective right and wrong, your doing the right thing is ultimately meaningless! "Right" has no meaning in that sense.

Explain why doing the right thing is meaningless without God.

Ken

Because "right" is meaningless. Without God, "right" is subjective, which renders morality meaningless.

[abelcainsbrother]

Ken wrote:
My dad used to say; Integrity is the DESIRE to do the right thing; even when nobody's looking. For a person with no integrity your question makes perfect sense. But for myself, I don't need to be bribed,, I don't need a reward, and I don't need anyone looking over my shoulder to do the right thing.

Kenny,

You're STILL not getting it!!!

If there's no God, no objective right and wrong, your doing the right thing is ultimately meaningless! "Right" has no meaning in that sense.

Explain why doing the right thing is meaningless without God.

Ken

If you try to do the right thing? Then why not make it count one day by believing in Jesus and receiving him? If you are a good person or try to be then Jesus can make a person better.Nobody without Jesus can be good enough to make it to heaven,if they could? God would not have had to send Jesus to save us. John 3:16

[Kenny]

Ken wrote:
My dad used to say; Integrity is the DESIRE to do the right thing; even when nobody's looking. For a person with no integrity your question makes perfect sense. But for myself, I don't need to be bribed,, I don't need a reward, and I don't need anyone looking over my shoulder to do the right thing.

Kenny,

You're STILL not getting it!!!

If there's no God, no objective right and wrong, your doing the right thing is ultimately meaningless! "Right" has no meaning in that sense.

Explain why doing the right thing is meaningless without God.

Ken

Because "right" is meaningless. Without God, "right" is subjective, which renders morality meaningless.

If we assume "X" to be right, is "X" right because God says it is right or is it right regardless of what God says but because God is perfect he will agree it to be right as well. Which of those statements do you agree with?

[Byblos]

If we assume "X" to be right, is "X" right because God says it is right or is it right regardless of what God says but because God is perfect he will agree it to be right as well. Which of those statements do you agree with?

The dilemma you set up is as false as Euthyphro's and you know it. At least you ought to from the myriad discussions we had on the subject in the past. Did you really forget or are you just playing your usual games?

[Kenny]

If we assume "X" to be right, is "X" right because God says it is right or is it right regardless of what God says but because God is perfect he will agree it to be right as well. Which of those statements do you agree with?

The dilemma you set up is as false as Euthyphro's and you know it. At least you ought to from the myriad discussions we had on the subject in the past. Did you really forget or are you just playing your usual games?

I don't remember discussing this question with you in the past. It is a question; not a dilemma. Perhaps you can explain why the question is false.

Ken

[Byblos]

If we assume "X" to be right, is "X" right because God says it is right or is it right regardless of what God says but because God is perfect he will agree it to be right as well. Which of those statements do you agree with?

The dilemma you set up is as false as Euthyphro's and you know it. At least you ought to from the myriad discussions we had on the subject in the past. Did you really forget or are you just playing your usual games?

I don't remember discussing this question with you in the past. It is a question; not a dilemma. Perhaps you can explain why the question is false.

Ken

Kenny it is a dilemma because the way it is phrased it sets up a false dichotomy. First look up Euthyphro's Dilemma, then look up why it is a false dilemma (just as yours is), then come back and we'll discuss it.

[Jac3510]

I know I'm forever self-promoting ( ), but for those not familiar with what Byblos is addressing, I might (well, would) I refer them to pp. 93-96 of Making Divine Simplicity Simple.

That is all. Carry on.