Studies that say NDEs are not real.

[B. W.]

+
Kenny, please review the board guidelines. Please read and note that this board may not be for you...

Board Purpose (Last updated on 5 September 2010)
This board is a part of Evidence for God from Science (G&S), a Christian website, which serves to provide a defense and persuasive case for Christianity as well as encouragement and instruction for Christian people and seekers.

Who is the message board intended for?
This message board is publicly open to anyone who wishes to register and participate in discussions, however it is ultimately intended for a specific audience. It is intended to serve as a place for:

1. Sincere seekers to inquire and ask questions;
2. Christians to give and receive encouragement and instruction; and
3. Non-Christians who are willing to "walk a thin line" and reason sensitively and respectfully.

This board is not for those who have strongly made up their mind that Christ is "not" for them; who merely wish to put down, debate, and argue against essential Christian beliefs. As such, those who are Christian, have not made up their minds, or desire civilized discussions on Christianity are encouraged to join, while others who merely wish to attack and try to discredit Christianity are discouraged and will be heavily moderated.


...Guidelines for debating against Christian beliefs
The following are some guidelines for members to follow who choose to debate against Christian beliefs:

1. Dialogue and debate with sensitivity, understanding you are participating within a Christian community.
2. Do not set out to try change the opinion of Christians as this immediately creates barriers and hostility.
3. If you receive hostility, or a caution from a moderator, be gracious enough to leave the associated discussion/s politely.
4. Do not criticise the way this board is moderated for Christians either through direct or indirect public comments.
5. If you vehemently disagree with Christian beliefs and constantly attack then know that you will be banned very quickly.
6. If these rules of engagement seem obnoxious to you, then this board probably is not for you. It is just best you leave now.

Any non-Christians who participate in discussions do so with an understanding moderators will be the judge of whether the line is crossed.

Be respectful and use good etiquette, and moderators will treat you the same without being quick to ban. That is, you can expect cautions will be issued if it is felt you are approaching the line; a warning to be issued when you have crossed the line (which may/may not involve a temporary ban); and a permanent ban if you persist.

Are we being unfair?
Many have objected to our board purpose being "unfair" or "intolerant". Yet, such a person really shows their own unfairness or "intolerance" by not wanting to allow one Christian board out of the many on the Internet to function in accordance with its beliefs as a Christian board.

Imagine if a Christian person registered on a Jewish website. This Christian began posting how the Jews persecuted the early Christian Church, and pointing out any faults they thought existed within the Jewish faith. It becomes readily apparent that the administrator(s) of that board would have every right to ban that Christian and remove their posts. It is simply not a board for the Christian to propagate their beliefs nor tear into Judaism for it is a Jewish board.

Or imagine if a Muslim entered your home and hung up the Koran above your door (or if you are Muslim substitute someone taking down your Koran). Such a seemingly unacceptable action highlights the point that it is not always true that divergent faiths and beliefs should be given the same privileges, freedom, and level of acceptance everywhere. To think otherwise is to not respect another's personal space. So just like a Muslim would have no right to hang their Koran in your home without permission, simply because the home becomes "virtual" does not change this principle.

This board is a Christian home, and so while very open to sincere questions and sensitive debate and dialogue, it is "not" a place where others of differing beliefs can promote their opinions while throwing any argument and complaint they can find against Christianity. If you think this is still unfair, then you are quite welcome to find and join some of the many other message boards suitable to this on the Internet.

Kenny, there are our rules here, not yours.

If you have trouble with adhering to any rules other than your own, then this discussion board is not for you.

Have a nice day
-
-
-

[Kurieuo]

Yes, but I think you misunderstand.
The Christocracy will come when all is said and done, right?
Things will be setup correctly and God's kingdom will be revealed to all.
At least, if I'm right and my hope isn't in vain.

Okay; I get cha! But that's a different discussion though.

K

Yeah, it is -- that's why I winked.

But, I do not think it can be logically justified that religion is simply a tool to control the masses.
That's an Atheist refrain often heard. However, just because you're Atheist leaning doesn't mean it is right to bundle all "God beliefs" into one box based upon mere conjecture on why religion "evolved" or came to be.

Christ certainly seems at odds with such thought (that religion is about power and control), since all He gained for himself in his lived life was crucifixion. No power, no fortune, just a man who helped the poor and suffering, challenged religious authorities in his day and was rewarded with death.

So then, it is laughable then that anyone ever attempts to align Christ's teachings with that of "men in power claim to rule according to God’s law.". Sure there are distortions -- whether there is the authentic there are the immitations.
BUT, here's a thought, maybe Christ was actually legitimate and his teachings true.

Indeed, one of Hitler's problems was that there were often annoying Christian people who stuck to their guns.
So then, as the Übermensch he went to go about re-writing the Bible and trying to make people conform to his own cult.
He banned to actual Bible and published his altered version. His invented religion ultimately crumbled and didn't work out.

In my opinion, the threat of violence and promises of great reward and/or fame works much better than religion for coercing and controlling.
We're entitled here to call things how we see it. That includes what I'm now going to write which is going to call matters as I see them rather than try to be politically correct.

But, I see that Islam appears to work by fear and promises of fame (martyrdom) and fortune (earthly pleasures of plunder and women + dying for a jihad = straight to heaven). Neo-X would be in a much better position to comment on an Islamic country, but the way I see it's a message of either convert, pay tributes or die you Christian or Atheist infidel.

Also, the Roman Catholic Church at one point (probably many points) become quite corrupted which lead to the reformations that took place without and within it. Then you also have Protestants and different denominations who equally strayed from Christ Himself and did horrible things.

All this, is much different when we look to Christ and who he is however.
And a lived Christianity, where people truly strive to model in their own lives the love and grace Christ revealed.

Islam, if we look at Muhammad's life as its founder, has been about conquering and installing peace by uniting people under the one religion.
Such easily caters to frustration and anger people feel in life, which is why we see many youth -- even young Western adolescents -- wanting to fly over and join ISIS.

So, then, any comparison to Christianity under some "Theocracy"
-- there is probably more in common with tyranny and oppression between any Islamic state enforcing shariah law, and that of secular governments we've seen historically (and even continue to witness today) in Communist countries under the likes of Mao Zedong and Joseph Stalin and dictatorships.

[B. W.]

Yes, but I think you misunderstand.
The Christocracy will come when all is said and done, right?
Things will be setup correctly and God's kingdom will be revealed to all.
At least, if I'm right and my hope isn't in vain.

Okay; I get cha! But that's a different discussion though.

K

Yeah, it is -- that's why I winked.

But, I do not think it can be logically justified that religion is simply a tool to control the masses.
That's an Atheist refrain often heard. However, just because you're Atheist leaning doesn't mean it is right to bundle all "God beliefs" into one box based upon mere conjecture on why religion "evolved" or came to be.

Christ certainly seems at odds with such thought (that religion is about power and control), since all He gained for himself in his lived life was crucifixion. No power, no fortune, just a man who helped the poor and suffering, challenged religious authorities in his day and was rewarded with death.

So then, it is laughable then that anyone ever attempts to align Christ's teachings with that of "men in power claim to rule according to God’s law.". Sure there are distortions -- whether there is the authentic there are the immitations.
BUT, here's a thought, maybe Christ was actually legitimate and his teachings true.

Indeed, one of Hitler's problems was that there were often annoying Christian people who stuck to their guns.
So then, as the Übermensch he went to go about re-writing the Bible and trying to make people conform to his own cult.
He banned to actual Bible and published his altered version. His invented religion ultimately crumbled and didn't work out.

In my opinion, the threat of violence and promises of great reward and/or fame works much better than religion for coercing and controlling.
We're entitled here to call things how we see it. That includes what I'm now going to write which is going to call matters as I see them rather than try to be politically correct.

But, I see that Islam appears to work by fear and promises of fame (martyrdom) and fortune (earthly pleasures of plunder and women + dying for a jihad = straight to heaven). Neo-X would be in a much better position to comment on an Islamic country, but the way I see it's a message of either convert, pay tributes or die you Christian or Atheist infidel.

Also, the Roman Catholic Church at one point (probably many points) become quite corrupted which lead to the reformations that took place without and within it. Then you also have Protestants and different denominations who equally strayed from Christ Himself and did horrible things.

All this, is much different when we look to Christ and who he is however.
And a lived Christianity, where people truly strive to model in their own lives the love and grace Christ revealed.

Islam, if we look at Muhammad's life as its founder, has been about conquering and installing peace by uniting people under the one religion.
Such easily caters to frustration and anger people feel in life, which is why we see many youth -- even young Western adolescents -- wanting to fly over and join ISIS.

So, then, any comparison to Christianity under some "Theocracy"
-- there is probably more in common with tyranny and oppression between any Islamic state enforcing shariah law, and that of secular governments we've seen historically (and even continue to witness today) in Communist countries under the likes of Mao Zedong and Joseph Stalin and dictatorships.

That is the best response yet to this oft cited strawman argument posed by militant atheist regarding theocracy...

Well done K
-
-
-

[Kenny]

Yes, but I think you misunderstand.
The Christocracy will come when all is said and done, right?
Things will be setup correctly and God's kingdom will be revealed to all.
At least, if I'm right and my hope isn't in vain.

Okay; I get cha! But that's a different discussion though.

K

Yeah, it is -- that's why I winked.

But, I do not think it can be logically justified that religion is simply a tool to control the masses.
That's an Atheist refrain often heard. However, just because you're Atheist leaning doesn't mean it is right to bundle all "God beliefs" into one box based upon mere conjecture on why religion "evolved" or came to be.

Christ certainly seems at odds with such thought (that religion is about power and control), since all He gained for himself in his lived life was crucifixion. No power, no fortune, just a man who helped the poor and suffering, challenged religious authorities in his day and was rewarded with death.

So then, it is laughable then that anyone ever attempts to align Christ's teachings with that of "men in power claim to rule according to God’s law.". Sure there are distortions -- whether there is the authentic there are the immitations.
BUT, here's a thought, maybe Christ was actually legitimate and his teachings true.

Indeed, one of Hitler's problems was that there were often annoying Christian people who stuck to their guns.
So then, as the Übermensch he went to go about re-writing the Bible and trying to make people conform to his own cult.
He banned to actual Bible and published his altered version. His invented religion ultimately crumbled and didn't work out.

In my opinion, the threat of violence and promises of great reward and/or fame works much better than religion for coercing and controlling.
We're entitled here to call things how we see it. That includes what I'm now going to write which is going to call matters as I see them rather than try to be politically correct.

But, I see that Islam appears to work by fear and promises of fame (martyrdom) and fortune (earthly pleasures of plunder and women + dying for a jihad = straight to heaven). Neo-X would be in a much better position to comment on an Islamic country, but the way I see it's a message of either convert, pay tributes or die you Christian or Atheist infidel.

Also, the Roman Catholic Church at one point (probably many points) become quite corrupted which lead to the reformations that took place without and within it. Then you also have Protestants and different denominations who equally strayed from Christ Himself and did horrible things.

All this, is much different when we look to Christ and who he is however.
And a lived Christianity, where people truly strive to model in their own lives the love and grace Christ revealed.

Islam, if we look at Muhammad's life as its founder, has been about conquering and installing peace by uniting people under the one religion.
Such easily caters to frustration and anger people feel in life, which is why we see many youth -- even young Western adolescents -- wanting to fly over and join ISIS.

So, then, any comparison to Christianity under some "Theocracy"
-- there is probably more in common with tyranny and oppression between any Islamic state enforcing shariah law, and that of secular governments we've seen historically (and even continue to witness today) in Communist countries under the likes of Mao Zedong and Joseph Stalin and dictatorships.

A moderater has made it clear I'm not to post here anymore.
Carry on gentlemen

[B. W.]

Kenny, you can post, no one is stopping you.

The guide lines state what the guide lines state and everyone needs reminding of the Forum Guidelines from time to time.

You see Kenny, there are rules, which you may not like and because you don't like them does not mean you can just ignore them because they conflict with your agenda standards. Please take a lesson in that.

Have nice day
-
-
-

[neo-x]

Kenny, I think Kurieuo has put a very good post, nailed it actually. I concur with him completely. All theocracies, whichever you choose to add to the list are far different and quiet self centered. The most "pure" concept of theocracy is of Christ and I don't say that just because I happen to be a christian.

You can't even imagine going under sharia law. Half of the things atheists in general say about religion are enough to be condemned to death under sharia law and that was certainly true to some extent in the O.T as well but Christ is the game changer here and I think it is the his personality which reflects in his theocracy.

There is no one religious figure I can find better than Christ. His purity and his divine being are matchless. So much so that the best any most anti-theist militant atheist has against Christ is that he didn't address the gay question.

I hope you see that. Being in a christian theocracy is way better than being in any theocracy. I mean people are against christian prayer and monuments in public and their current standing as discrimination against the faithless. But go to any Islamic state and try to say that. You will be stoned faster than you can count to hundred and I'm not trying to be funny.

I think people take Christianity and christian values for granted and probably because they do not know any better but outside of these confines of christian values there is a far worse and cruel law which has no margin of tolerance.

[Kenny]

Kenny, I think Kurieuo has put a very good post, nailed it actually. I concur with him completely. All theocracies, whichever you choose to add to the list are far different and quiet self centered. The most "pure" concept of theocracy is of Christ and I don't say that just because I happen to be a christian.

You can't even imagine going under sharia law. Half of the things atheists in general say about religion are enough to be condemned to death under sharia law and that was certainly true to some extent in the O.T as well but Christ is the game changer here and I think it is the his personality which reflects in his theocracy.

There is no one religious figure I can find better than Christ. His purity and his divine being are matchless. So much so that the best any most anti-theist militant atheist has against Christ is that he didn't address the gay question.

I hope you see that. Being in a christian theocracy is way better than being in any theocracy. I mean people are against christian prayer and monuments in public and their current standing as discrimination against the faithless. But go to any Islamic state and try to say that. You will be stoned faster than you can count to hundred and I'm not trying to be funny.

I think people take Christianity and christian values for granted and probably because they do not know any better but outside of these confines of christian values there is a far worse and cruel law which has no margin of tolerance.

Perhaps we can start a new thread in the "questioning non-belief" section. I'd be happy to discuss it there.

Ken

[1over137]

Kenny, go ahead.
Create new topic and say in first post that it is continuation of ...link...
Take it as an ecouradgment.