A Scientific Theory on the given Freedom of God

[dfnj]

P.S. I saw a really great bumper sticker the other day: CAUTION: In case of rapture this car may swerve as my mother-in-law takes the wheel.

That's awesome!!!!

By far the best rapture humor I've ever seen!

[Starhunter]

Sciencigion,

You have tied the incomprehensible aspects of the Creator into creation, which tells us that God is 'pervasive' in His presence and influence, so much so that free choice seems totally lost. I'd have to agree, because such a thought is true and quite horrendous, because we don't know Whom we are dealing with.

But could it be that despite this, overwhelming strength and intelligence, (able to know the number of hairs on all heads at once at any given time), that there is an equal amount of infinite tenderness and consideration for the freedom and free will of all creatures, as well as the free movement and possibilities of all matter as if it were living, the innate capacity to run freely and randomly without cause for concern?

My dog may help. We have a fence that gives him the boundaries of the property, which he has marked as well, for reasons best known to him, and the fence is faulty and he gets out and goes for miles, sometimes gone for two days, and then comes back.
As far as he is concerned, there is an infinite world out there to explore, total freedom, but he has a place to which he can always return to meet certain needs. Let's say basic needs, and whatever else is out there, is exotic.
What a life style.

A dog is faithful by nature and therefor cannot 'sin' against a loving owner. A human being is faithful by nature too, and therefor cannot sin against the Owner.

If I test the dog, he will rather die than be disloyal. He will risk his life to save me. because that is his God given instinct.
A human will do the same. A dog cannot be tricked into making an un-dog-like decision, because he will only be a dog, but a human being can choose not to be human-like, and go against his Owner, if he or she wants to.
They can be tricked or conned into doing something otherwise, if they allowed that to happen.
The first words of the tempter was to suggest that they (humans) can be un-human-like and be something else better than a human - "ye shall be as gods" said the devil.

But this status of decision making ability, already puts the human above the animal and equal with God, humans are independent on the issue of loyalty, by the power of their will alone. The Devil had no case to start with, unless they could be bought into the lie.

Could it be that the Maker in all power and wisdom has left this one decision making area free of any influence and instinct? Could it be that in order to preserve this freedom of will, Christ had to die?

Without the tree of knowledge of good and evil, this free will could not be realized?, because as you said, every influence in the universe is designed for loyalty and love, and not rebellion. But here is that tree, the proof of total freedom.

Had it been recognized for what it was, without brain numbing disobedience, Adam and Eve would have come to know themselves as independent in love with God, and not just children joined by the umbilical cord of life.

[Sciencigion]

I'm seeing new replies as I'm typing this (looking at you (dfnj and Starhunter!). Don't feel ignored, I've yet to read them

B.W.

Thanks for your links, I'll definitely read them. Also, I am aware by the meaning of being omniscient and that's exactly why I'm discussing this.

If I may, I have some remarks on your previous replies:

He is a God and since God, a God of truth. Logic indicates that a God of truth would reveal himself to us and set forth truthful standard and testimony of himself and his dealing with humanity. He did so as recorded in the Scriptures. As I study these in all manner, I am amazed at how the symbols, numbers. Hebrew root pictograph, name meanings, etc, all connect and reveal truths in the context of the scripture passages they are found in that transcend all possibility that human beings concocted this book. There is a divine intelligence that testify and screams from the the bible on the truthfulness of God as being totally and absolutely omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent.

There seems to be logic that God has to reveal himself to us if he's truthful. Yet, there is no logic when his characteristics or actions are brought into thought since his testimony says that he's above logic and human understanding. In other words, the pillars of his testimony about being above logic and human understanding rest on a logical thought that a truthful God has to reveal himself. Yet, that very same logical thought, that a truthful God has to reveal himself, couldn't be proven logically. If a logical thought couldn't be proven logically, then how logical and true can that thought be?

Freedom of choice could only be granted by God who is all powerful because what would he have to fear from this? If he denied it, how then could he really be omnipotent? This also testifies to the Goodness and fairness of God as well...

I think the meaning of being omnipotent doesn't necessarily mean that he HAS to permit everything such as freedom. You could say that if God has indeed given freedom, that he denies himself influencing our thoughts. After all, he's omnipotent so he could deny and allow everything.

Intelligent beings make themselves known. It is what intelligent beings do.
Intelligent beings can either find each other or ignore all the evidence another intelligent being is even around. Such ignoring evidence does not mean another is not around - it means one just presupposes the evidence is not there.

What makes you so sure that intelligent beings should make themselves known? There could be many intentions that an intelligent could have, such as not revealing himself.