Finally Picked a creation stance.

[Storyteller]

Okay, here is where I am.

Genesis describes the Big Bang and how the universe "evolved" I don`t think it was in literal days, it`s seven stages, if you like.

God created, possibly we have a common ancestor but I`m not totally convinced.

DNA points to intelligent design, were we designed from scratch or are we the result of some tinkering? Not sure. If I absolutely had to decide I think I would be leaning towards God creating man from scratch but then our DNA is so similar to other animals so is the DNA the building block?

God being pro active, even now, makes more sense to me than Him just starting the ball rolling and sitting back and going with the flow. Mind you, if the laws and everything that govern reality were, and are, that precise even God starting it all off and letting things progress make sense.

Leaning towards OEC, just can`t see how the earth could be as young as it would be if YEC is true, OEC fits better for me.

Evolution has been what I have been brought up with, it has been my default position for my entire life but it just doesn`t sit quite right with me now.

So......

Any suggestions on what my creation stance is?

P.S. Agree with pretty much everything ES posted (another hint that perhaps Catholicism is for me?)

[1over137]

Maybe I can add another option under the Creation Position.
The option's name would be: "It's complicated".

[Kurieuo]

You are saying lots about you, and you is sounding like me.

I'm not sure if you've read different expositions of Genesis 1 (i.e., YEC, OEC),
but have a read of it and let me know what you read about what is being said is created, etc.

[neo-x]

Evolution has been what I have been brought up with, it has been my default position for my entire life but it just doesn`t sit quite right with me now.

Just out of curiosity, what doesn't sit quite right? Thank you.

[Storyteller]

I just don`t see it.

Man descended from apes? Don`t get me wrong I`m not saying it didn`t happen or couldn`t happen it just doesn`t convince me. If we descended from apes, when exactly was the first human with a soul?
Adam was created from dust, was he not? Maybe that dust is DNA?

I accept that some species can "evolve" to be stronger, fitter, faster, survival of the fittest and all that but to evolve into a new species? It just seems too much of a stretch for me.

[neo-x]

And a man walking on water, coming back from the dead, a man who was swallowed by a fish, a donkey that spoke, that doesn't seem too much of a stretch to you?

[Storyteller]

In short... nope

Seriously though, i`m still working through all this so be gentle with me!

I did say it was possible that evolution is true, it just isn`t quite as convincing as it once was for me. Trust me, saying that we were created by God is as much, if not more, of a leap for me.
The walking on water, well why couldn`t He have? He is God after all.
The whale, Jonah, I`m not familiar with, would need to read up on it.
Coming back from the dead, well if I don`t believe in that then there is no belief system is there?

I admit to knowing little of the Bible but I am reading and have hazy recollections from when I was a kid. Things like the Red Sea parting, I always thought could be put down to a nayural event, like an earthquake say. The darkness when Christ was on the cross, just an eclipse maybe but the question of why they happened is still there.

It has taken me a long time to accept that perhaps, the Bible is true, that it all actually happened how it was described rather than people trying to explain what they didn`t understand. Even if that`s the case they did a pretty good job of it didn`t they?
How did they know the order of things back then? How did they get so much of it right?

For a long time I thought of the Bible as a record of history and life in an age where science was unknown, that they were explaining apparent miraculous events with no knowledge of how or why they happened but the more I read and think about it all the more I am convinced it is true.

Just out of interest, is evolution mentioned anywhere in the Bible? If it isn`t I would be asking why.

P.S. I have absolutely no problems with anyone who believes in evolution, after all I may be wrong. It`s just after sifting through a lot of the threads on here and articles on the home page and other reading I am becoming less inclined to accept evolution.

[neo-x]

I apologize if that came out as wrong but I really wanted to know how you discern what is believable to you and what is not and based on what criteria.

Personally I find it harder to believe that a man could walk on water than man sharing a common ancestor with apes (mind you man didn't come from ape). In my case I believe in both but to honest if I am to go by your standard of "if he is God he could do it" then I think accepting a miracle like evolution, should not be more difficult than believing that a man was dead and then came back to life or that a donkey spoke human language or that the earth stood still for a large part of the day.

I find it really thoughtless, that by reason alone then, the probability of a donkey speaking human tongue is more than man sharing common ancestry with evolutionary lifeforms, if we say that both acts were initiated by God.

P.S This is not trying to force you into anything but rather helping you clear your thought process. I mean for all intent and purposes you can tell me you just don't like the idea of evolution and that I can understand but the reasoning you gave was very thin and I thought I should point that out, may be it will help you decide better.

This site is anti-evolution on the whole and you won't find many good things here on the topic, if you really want to learn about evolution there are better sites.

[Storyteller]

It`s difficult to translate meaning with the written word so please don`t worry about how you come across, there is very little that you can post that will offend or upset me. I like discussing different ideas, especially as I am still formulating my ideas myself.

I`m not saying man doesn`t share a common ancestor, we may well do, it`s just that evolution has been, so far, the only option I have really been taught and now i`m finding there are other options.

Okay, let`s assume for a moment that we did in fact descend from a common ancestor, well why? Where does Adam fit in? Have we stopped evolving? Are there any records of these common ancestors?

I am not discounting evolution. I`m just exploring the options.

[Storyteller]

P.S. Any links would be appreciated neo. I`m open to researching things.

And not liking an idea isn`t a good enough reason for me to discount it.

Truth is truth whether I like the idea or not, it`s just hard to get to the bottom of what really is true.

So, what`s your creation stance? (If you want to share) and why do you believe it?


And all this is of a great help btw!

[neo-x]

That's good news and thank you ST, I understand. There is a thread I made some time ago for Christians who want to learn about evolution.
Please see http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... =6&t=38744

There are many articles and studies posted there, rather too much to read in my opinion but feel free to read any which takes your fancy and ask questions and I will respond as much as I can.

T.E's range in belief but the majority is centered around the idea that Adam and Eve were the first humanoids with souls from God. Then the second majority is that Adam and Eve and their story is allegorical. I personally reject that they were allegorical since the text of Genesis really doesn't allow that kind of a take literally, grammatically etc.

I believe God designed and kick-started all existence and I think his role is a rather passive one but still a needed one. He doesn't aggressively interfere and let things run as they are. Human evolution is one such result of the laws of nature acting on themselves. Also Adam and eve may be a real couple which started the Hebrew line but they were not the first humans. Death was present on this planet as much as life was and that sin didn't bring physical death, atleast. It could bring spiritual I agree.

There I part with the majority (I am usually accused of being a heretic on this front to put it mildly , some ask how can I even believe in Christ) as I hold that certain facts in the Genesis story are not matching up with the evidence and data that we have.

If you have any questions let me know.

[Kurieuo]

There I part with the majority (I am usually accused of being a heretic on this front to put it mildly , some ask how can I even believe in Christ) as I hold that certain facts in the Genesis story are not matching up with the evidence and data that we have.

I have no idea who would call a good Christian man like you a heretic.

[RickD]

There I part with the majority (I am usually accused of being a heretic on this front to put it mildly , some ask how can I even believe in Christ) as I hold that certain facts in the Genesis story are not matching up with the evidence and data that we have.

I have no idea who would call a good Christian man like you a heretic.

If it's any consolation Neo, you're a heretic only by the most general definition of heretic.

[abelcainsbrother]

I think I'm the heretic,even though I don't want to be but a lot more people agree with y'all than me,so I know I'm the one seen as a heretic.Jesus loves me this I know...........

Jesus and mama
https://m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=lzvZBht1N9g

[neo-x]

Nah, you're just a little too strong on the GT that's all, GT doesn't make you heretic.