Finally Picked a creation stance.

[RickD]

If the Bible states it as happening in 6 literal days then why do you not believe it?

(And all I am doing here is trying to understand what people believe and why)

Neo,

Be honest. You believe the bible, when interpreted properly, shows YEC. But you're convinced evolution is true. So, you simply choose evolution over scripture. At least the part of scripture that you believe shows YEC is the intended meaning.

[RickD]

neo?

Do you believe God created the universe in 6 literal 24 hour periods then?

I don't, but that was what Moses wrote and believed, and it is what the Bible says. So whatever we may or must believe in order to satisfy our own intellect, shall we say, it is also always good to see what the text intended to say.

Annette,

To be fair, people have used the same method of interpreting scripture, the historical grammatical method, and have interpreted the text to allow for a YEC or an OEC interpretation. In other words, we have a group of people who interpret scripture using the HG method. Some will believe YEC fits. Some believe OEC fits.

So, there are some who don't believe Moses was trying to convey YEC in Genesis.

[neo-x]

If the Bible states it as happening in 6 literal days then why do you not believe it?

(And all I am doing here is trying to understand what people believe and why)

Neo,

Be honest. You believe the bible, when interpreted properly, shows YEC. But you're convinced evolution is true. So, you simply choose evolution over scripture. At least the part of scripture that you believe shows YEC is the intended meaning.

Did I say otherwise? I clearly said, I don't believe it but that is what the Bible says.

And by the way I didn't simply "choose evolution", there was sweat and a lot of prayers involved.

[Storyteller]

neo?

Do you believe God created the universe in 6 literal 24 hour periods then?

I don't, but that was what Moses wrote and believed, and it is what the Bible says. So whatever we may or must believe in order to satisfy our own intellect, shall we say, it is also always good to see what the text intended to say.

Annette,

To be fair, people have used the same method of interpreting scripture, the historical grammatical method, and have interpreted the text to allow for a YEC or an OEC interpretation. In other words, we have a group of people who interpret scripture using the HG method. Some will believe YEC fits. Some believe OEC fits.

So, there are some who don't believe Moses was trying to convey YEC in Genesis.

No wonder it`s so hard to choose then!

Still, all this helping....



a bit.

[neo-x]

neo?

Do you believe God created the universe in 6 literal 24 hour periods then?

I don't, but that was what Moses wrote and believed, and it is what the Bible says. So whatever we may or must believe in order to satisfy our own intellect, shall we say, it is also always good to see what the text intended to say.

Annette,

To be fair, people have used the same method of interpreting scripture, the historical grammatical method, and have interpreted the text to allow for a YEC or an OEC interpretation. In other words, we have a group of people who interpret scripture using the HG method. Some will believe YEC fits. Some believe OEC fits.

So, there are some who don't believe Moses was trying to convey YEC in Genesis.

No wonder it`s so hard to choose then!

Still, all this helping....



a bit.

Don't worry about it, the church, throughout its 2000 years old history has never agreed to one stance or another. Even church fathers had disputes on this. St. Augustine for instance believed that all creation was not done in 6 days but rather instantly, all in one go, in a mere blink of an eye. So whatever you choose, there will be good arguments for it and good arguments against it.

Someone picks up YEC, some OEC others dayage and PC etc, all in error ofcourse

[neo-x]

neo?

Do you believe God created the universe in 6 literal 24 hour periods then?

I don't, but that was what Moses wrote and believed, and it is what the Bible says. So whatever we may or must believe in order to satisfy our own intellect, shall we say, it is also always good to see what the text intended to say.

Annette,

To be fair, people have used the same method of interpreting scripture, the historical grammatical method, and have interpreted the text to allow for a YEC or an OEC interpretation. In other words, we have a group of people who interpret scripture using the HG method. Some will believe YEC fits. Some believe OEC fits.

So, there are some who don't believe Moses was trying to convey YEC in Genesis.

To be fairest Rick, please also mention that no one thought of it, until we discovered fossils, rock dating methods and (for the sake of your agreement ) micro-evolution.

Ann, its not the interpretation which is important, rather how ones gets the interpretation. For instance if your interpretation runs counter to author's intent, then you have an interpretation, but a wrong one.

[Storyteller]

Interesting debates to be had all round then huh?

So...



so far I have Day Age, PC, OEC.

Is Day Age the same as OEC?

How on earth do you discover an authors intent?

[RickD]

If the Bible states it as happening in 6 literal days then why do you not believe it?

(And all I am doing here is trying to understand what people believe and why)

Neo,

Be honest. You believe the bible, when interpreted properly, shows YEC. But you're convinced evolution is true. So, you simply choose evolution over scripture. At least the part of scripture that you believe shows YEC is the intended meaning.

Did I say otherwise? I clearly said, I don't believe it but that is what the Bible says.

And by the way I didn't simply "choose evolution", there was sweat and a lot of prayers involved.

Neo,
I didn't mean to imply that how you got to the point of what you believe now, was a simple decision. What I mean is that on one hand you have nature, which you believe shows the ToE to be true. And on the other hand you have scripture, which you believe shows YEC to be what was meant by the author. And after weighing those out, you just (simply) believe in the evidence of evolution, over inerrancy of scripture.

What I'm asking, is for you not to sugar coat that. For most Christians I know, in fact all, inerrancy of scripture is very important.

[RickD]

neo?

Do you believe God created the universe in 6 literal 24 hour periods then?

I don't, but that was what Moses wrote and believed, and it is what the Bible says. So whatever we may or must believe in order to satisfy our own intellect, shall we say, it is also always good to see what the text intended to say.

Annette,

To be fair, people have used the same method of interpreting scripture, the historical grammatical method, and have interpreted the text to allow for a YEC or an OEC interpretation. In other words, we have a group of people who interpret scripture using the HG method. Some will believe YEC fits. Some believe OEC fits.

So, there are some who don't believe Moses was trying to convey YEC in Genesis.

To be fairest Rick, please also mention that no one thought of it, until we discovered fossils, rock dating methods and (for the sake of your agreement ) micro-evolution.

Ann, its not the interpretation which is important, rather how ones gets the interpretation. For instance if your interpretation runs counter to author's intent, then you have an interpretation, but a wrong one.

And if the author's intent wasn't to show how long it took for God to create, then believing the text allows for an OEC interpretation does not run counter to the author's intent.

[neo-x]

Interesting debates to be had all round then huh?

So...



so far I have Day Age, PC, OEC.

Is Day Age the same as OEC?

How on earth do you discover an authors intent?

You treat the text in its own context and ask yourself these questions:

1. What is the point of the story?
2. Who is the audience?
3. What would it mean to the audience?
4. How is this particular part of the text, referenced by other authors in the scripture
5. Keeping in mind Q1,2,3 What is more likely suggested by the language and the grammar of the text?
6. How would this text read in its day and age and what would it likely mean?

This should be a good start without going into much heavy textual criticism.


PC, DAY AGE, T.E, and Gap theory all fall under OEC.

[neo-x]

If the Bible states it as happening in 6 literal days then why do you not believe it?

(And all I am doing here is trying to understand what people believe and why)

Neo,

Be honest. You believe the bible, when interpreted properly, shows YEC. But you're convinced evolution is true. So, you simply choose evolution over scripture. At least the part of scripture that you believe shows YEC is the intended meaning.

Did I say otherwise? I clearly said, I don't believe it but that is what the Bible says.

And by the way I didn't simply "choose evolution", there was sweat and a lot of prayers involved.

Neo,
I didn't mean to imply that how you got to the point of what you believe now, was a simple decision. What I mean is that on one hand you have nature, which you believe shows the ToE to be true. And on the other hand you have scripture, which you believe shows YEC to be what was meant by the author. And after weighing those out, you just (simply) believe in the evidence of evolution, over inerrancy of scripture.

What I'm asking, is for you not to sugar coat that. For most Christians I know, in fact all, inerrancy of scripture is very important.

I clearly said, the scriptures in Genesis are in error, how is that sugar coating?

[RickD]

Interesting debates to be had all round then huh?

So...



so far I have Day Age, PC, OEC.

Is Day Age the same as OEC?

How on earth do you discover an authors intent?

Annette,

Day Age and PC are both subsets of OEC.

If I say I hold to a Day Age/PC creation position, I'm being more specific about the kind of OEC that I hold to.

[neo-x]

neo?

Do you believe God created the universe in 6 literal 24 hour periods then?

I don't, but that was what Moses wrote and believed, and it is what the Bible says. So whatever we may or must believe in order to satisfy our own intellect, shall we say, it is also always good to see what the text intended to say.

Annette,

To be fair, people have used the same method of interpreting scripture, the historical grammatical method, and have interpreted the text to allow for a YEC or an OEC interpretation. In other words, we have a group of people who interpret scripture using the HG method. Some will believe YEC fits. Some believe OEC fits.

So, there are some who don't believe Moses was trying to convey YEC in Genesis.

To be fairest Rick, please also mention that no one thought of it, until we discovered fossils, rock dating methods and (for the sake of your agreement ) micro-evolution.

Ann, its not the interpretation which is important, rather how ones gets the interpretation. For instance if your interpretation runs counter to author's intent, then you have an interpretation, but a wrong one.

And if the author's intent wasn't to show how long it took for God to create, then believing the text allows for an OEC interpretation does not run counter to the author's intent.

If that had been the case there would be no dispute. But that isn't so, 500 years ago you and me both would have had no trouble accepting the YEC interpretation, as far as scripture is concerned. You know why? because there was no such thing as OEC merited in the scripture. This position was made so that the science findings and the biblical claims could be aligned, as close as possible.

[RickD]

If the Bible states it as happening in 6 literal days then why do you not believe it?

(And all I am doing here is trying to understand what people believe and why)

Neo,

Be honest. You believe the bible, when interpreted properly, shows YEC. But you're convinced evolution is true. So, you simply choose evolution over scripture. At least the part of scripture that you believe shows YEC is the intended meaning.

Did I say otherwise? I clearly said, I don't believe it but that is what the Bible says.

And by the way I didn't simply "choose evolution", there was sweat and a lot of prayers involved.

Neo,
I didn't mean to imply that how you got to the point of what you believe now, was a simple decision. What I mean is that on one hand you have nature, which you believe shows the ToE to be true. And on the other hand you have scripture, which you believe shows YEC to be what was meant by the author. And after weighing those out, you just (simply) believe in the evidence of evolution, over inerrancy of scripture.

What I'm asking, is for you not to sugar coat that. For most Christians I know, in fact all, inerrancy of scripture is very important.

I clearly said, the scriptures in Genesis are in error, how is that sugar coating?

Ok. I just want it to be clear, that's all. Like I said biblical inerrancy is a big issue to most believers.

[Storyteller]

This isn`t going to be an easy decision is it?

Okay, so I need to look into PC and Day Age then. See if that helps at all.

This is great fun btw!