Finally Picked a creation stance.

Discussions on creation beliefs within Christianity, and topics related to creation.
abelcainsbrother
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Re: Finally Picked a creation stance.

Post by abelcainsbrother »

I have a Dake's reference bible written in the 1930's and it mentions day age creationism,so even day age goes back quite a long time.I don't lknow exactly how long but if Dake is giving reasons he disagrees with it,then it has to be a lot older than some people think and I think it needs to be pointed out that it was known by science the earth is very old at least millions of years old before evolution became popular. So I do believe both Day-Age and the Gap theory go back before evolution.I can back up the Gap theory.Intelligent Design is also old and goes all the way back to the 1800's too.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.
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neo-x
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Re: Finally Picked a creation stance.

Post by neo-x »

RickD wrote:If the Bible states it as happening in 6 literal days then why do you not believe it?

Neo,
I didn't mean to imply that how you got to the point of what you believe now, was a simple decision. What I mean is that on one hand you have nature, which you believe shows the ToE to be true. And on the other hand you have scripture, which you believe shows YEC to be what was meant by the author. And after weighing those out, you just (simply) believe in the evidence of evolution, over inerrancy of scripture.

What I'm asking, is for you not to sugar coat that. For most Christians I know, in fact all, inerrancy of scripture is very important.

I clearly said, the scriptures in Genesis are in error, how is that sugar coating?

Ok. I just want it to be clear, that's all. Like I said biblical inerrancy is a big issue to most believers.
I agree with you Rick. If anything I feel I have been most open about this.
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RickD
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Re: Finally Picked a creation stance.

Post by RickD »

RickD wrote:
And if the author's intent wasn't to show how long it took for God to create, then believing the text allows for an OEC interpretation does not run counter to the author's intent.
neo wrote:
If that had been the case there would be no dispute. But that isn't so, 500 years ago you and me both would have had no trouble accepting the YEC interpretation, as far as scripture is concerned. You know why? because there was no such thing as OEC merited in the scripture. This position was made so that the science findings and the biblical claims could be aligned, as close as possible.
No dispute? I disagree. Some, including you, believe the author's intent was to show the universe was created in 6 twenty-four hour days. And some believe that wasn't the author's intent.

500 years ago? Heck, not much more than 5 years ago, I believed in YEC.

Neo,
If the author's intent was to show that God created the heavens and the earth, and that God wanted to convey a 6 to 1 template of work to rest, then the author's intent wasn't to convey YEC nor OEC.

OEC was always allowed by the text because of the multiple meanings of yom. So, by saying OEC is allowed or compatible with the text, isn't the same as saying OEC was the author's intent. Like I said, what if the age of the earth wasn't even part of the intent of the author?
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Re: Finally Picked a creation stance.

Post by Storyteller »

Kinda my thoughts Rick.

For me Genesis just explains how it came into being rather than how long it took.

I`m not sure at that time they had any way of knowing how old the earth was/is. It`s only through scientific advancement that we are able to tell these things. I think it was more important to explain how it happened rather than the time scale.
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abelcainsbrother
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Re: Finally Picked a creation stance.

Post by abelcainsbrother »

I kinda get the feeling we are confusing ST,so ST I think you just need to take some time and examine every creation interpretation out there and then make your decision.This is what I did and I used to be a YEC too,so I already had a good understanding of YEC.If you need links to Gap theory web-sights for research,let me know.I think for Day-Age you have enough info here already.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.
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Re: Finally Picked a creation stance.

Post by Storyteller »

And I`m easily confused ACB :D

Actually all of this has helped, a lot. It`s an interesting topic and I shall carry on looking into it all.

What changed your mind about YEC?

By all means pass me some Gap Theory links but be warned out of all the creation ideas GT is the weakest for me but maybe that`s just because I haven`t read a convincing argument yet.
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Re: Finally Picked a creation stance.

Post by RickD »

Storyteller wrote:

What changed your mind about YEC?
Are you asking me?
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.


“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow




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abelcainsbrother
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Re: Finally Picked a creation stance.

Post by abelcainsbrother »

Storyteller wrote:And I`m easily confused ACB :D

Actually all of this has helped, a lot. It`s an interesting topic and I shall carry on looking into it all.

What changed your mind about YEC?

By all means pass me some Gap Theory links but be warned out of all the creation ideas GT is the weakest for me but maybe that`s just because I haven`t read a convincing argument yet.
What changed my mind about YEC? It took awhile for me,only because I was looking for info in the wrong places.I first heard about Lucifer's flood and I thought it was bad teaching at first but I decided to look into it,looking for Lucifer's flood and info about it and I couldn't find much info about it,so I kinda put it on the back burner for awhile,but then I found a Gap theory web-sight one day and was persuaded by it and I realized finally where the idea for Lucifer's flood came from,then I just started reading more and more,I found more Gap theory web-sights ,then I realized everything YEC's had said about it was wrong.I was convinced based on what the bible says first,then I started looking into science and in my debates with atheists they would post links to science web sights so I would save them and then go back and read them.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.
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Re: Finally Picked a creation stance.

Post by Storyteller »

Go on then, give me some links to look at :)
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Re: Finally Picked a creation stance.

Post by RickD »

Storyteller wrote:Go on then, give me some links to look at :)
First Catholicism, now Gap Theory!

Annette,

We really need to pay more attention to what you're getting yourself into! :poke:
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.


“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow




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abelcainsbrother
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Re: Finally Picked a creation stance.

Post by abelcainsbrother »

Can I Rick? I have avoided it out of respect.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.
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Re: Finally Picked a creation stance.

Post by Storyteller »

:fryingpan:


Didn`t say I`d believe it did I?

Just said I`ll look, open mind and all that.

If I`m going to look into the possibilities then I need to be fair and at least read up on the Gap Theory before I discount it (which I probably will!)
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Re: Finally Picked a creation stance.

Post by Storyteller »

abelcainsbrother wrote:Can I Rick? I have avoided it out of respect.
If you can`t or don`t want to post them on here, pm me with them. I will take a look but to be fair, it`ll have to be a pretty powerful argument to persuade me as it`s the weakest theory for me.
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Re: Finally Picked a creation stance.

Post by abelcainsbrother »

Storyteller wrote:Go on then, give me some links to look at :)
Here is one.This is probably my favorite and even brings geological science into things.
http://www.kjvbible.org/

And I like this one too and from this one you can find more links to other Gap theory web sights.
http://www.evogenesis.com/blog.html
Last edited by abelcainsbrother on Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:23 am, edited 2 times in total.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.
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Re: Finally Picked a creation stance.

Post by RickD »

abelcainsbrother wrote:Can I Rick? I have avoided it out of respect.
Can you what? Give her links to Gap Theory?

Absolutely.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.


“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow




St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
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