Bible Study, Genesis Chapters 1-3

[B. W.]

On our Do YECs accept "ordinary days"? thread an interesting topic came up. So as not to derail it as well support several request for a bible study on this forum, why not start with Genesis chapters One, Two and Three?

The purpose of this study is to help folks learn how to explore the layers of scripture and how to do so by adding to basic study methods how symbols, name meanings, colors, numbers and Hebrew Letter pictograph (the Otiot) meanings add to the text.

In this, I have found that no human being alone could have put this book, the bible together, as stamped within its pages is God’s fingerprint. The Bible is indeed divinely inspired by God using different people throughout the history of the bible in ways that are truly astounding.

I am posting from the - Do YECs accept "ordinary days"? – so you can gain an introduction. Serval members understand this method of study, such as Malz, and feel free to respond. I will be asking questions as this will be interactive and you will have to do homework i.e. research as wel God along.

So for Nessa and Story and others interested here goes:

Look up what Light and darkness represents in the bible, Use the internet or study guides.

One thing about the ancient Hebrew language and culture that often is neglected is the use of symbols, signs, and cycles. In the Genesis chapter one account of creation the symbolism for light is often overshadow by simplistic western literalism.

Light's symbolism is defined by the context which it is found in the text. The basic symbolism for light denotes intelligence, wisdom, knowledge, that adheres to truth. It denotes soundness, wholeness, a perfecting plan based on the exercise of intelligence, wisdom, knowledge, that adheres to truth to reach a final goal with righteousness, mercy, and equity truthfully exposed.

Now read Genesis 1:1-5, In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters. 3 Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day. NASB

Likewise darkness has symbolism as well to meaning the opposite of light as shown as an absence of exercise of intelligence, wisdom, knowledge that adheres to truth needed to reach a final goal which is attained by the exercise of righteousness, mercy and equity truthfully allowed to bloom. Also in other contexts, darkness represents ignorance, sin, death, rebellion, hopelessness, lovelessness, and faithlessness.

In Genesis chapter one, darkness has more to do with the context of creation before rebellion, therefore, it is in reference to an absence of exercise of intelligence, wisdom, knowledge, that adheres to truth needed to reach a final goal attained by the exercise of righteousness, mercy, and equity truthfully allowed to bloom. It is simple absence of anything existing outside of God's own existence. God created Ex Nihilo, period, is simply established in the first five verses.

Therefore, Light in verse three is in reference to exercise of intelligence, wisdom, knowledge, that adheres to truth. Now in John 1:1-4 Jesus is identified as the Logos of God. Logos in Greek means the expression of intelligence, wisdom, and knowledge. Col 1:16,17; Heb 1:2,3, Heb 1:10,11,12 all express that Jesus - the Logos of God created. Jesus also mentioned that he is the light of the world. Jesus is the expression of God's wisdom that created as Proverbs 3:19,20 reveals the Trinity of the Godhead involved in creation: Son founded creation with wisdom, the Holy Spirit established it, through the fathers' intimate vast knowledge of all things.

There is plenty of evidence that Light mentioned in Gen 1:3 is not a physical light but rather God's expression intelligence, wisdom, knowledge, that adheres to truth to reach a final goal which is attained by the exercise of righteousness, mercy and equity truthfully allowed to bloom. Even Gen 1:31 alludes to this symbolism of light.

Now notice Gen 1:5-25 progression of creation by keeping this symbolism in mind and what do you see? I see God creating order out of an expanse of nothingness, which separates order out from the dark night of nothingness - no love, no hope, no faith, no intelligence or wisdom expressed just nothingness... outside of God... for lack of a better human way to wrap your mind around this. God self sufficient within himself is bursting forth a creation and order by which he expresses himself (note Rev 4:11 KJV).

Now comes Genesis 1:14 where you actually have physical light made to separate psychical darkness and the beginning of the 24 hour day as we know it began. The days mentioned in creation can mean an indefinite period of time. There is no way we can really know the length of the Days of creation created in the timelessness of eternity. Moses was expressing symbolism in the creation account so future generations would seek and find their creator and the purpose God has for them actualized. Moses met the preincarnate Jesus and these words he used are expression of Gods' wisdom to us concerning creation as it only pertains to us according to God's timetable of intelligence, wisdom, knowledge that adheres to truth needed to reach His final goal which is attained by the exercise of His righteousness, mercy and equity truthfully allowed to bloom. Now read Rev 21:1.

Often we human beings can be so literal that we miss hearing the truth the Holy Spirit teaches from the bible and get stuck on stupid. How long will it take for intelligence, wisdom, knowledge, righteousness, mercy and equity to be truthfully allowed to bloom in the human mind?

Copyright 2015 material
B W Melvin

B.W., I agree with the many possibilities within what you've written, within how SCRIPTURE is written. The problem is when someone wants to get exceptionally dogmatic about this issue and so they simply slam the door on the wider range of reasonable possibilities the text presents. And, FAR worse, when some would assert that only those holding to the literalist point of view are sincerely trying to take Scripture seriously/that it is God given, and that those taking a more symbolic, day/age or some hybrid of these are refusing to accept God's word is true and perfectly clear regarding this issue. That's just not true! Far too many evangelical scholars have read this in differing ways. As Norman Geisler has said, he's been studying this issue for over 50 years and the definitive understanding (young or old) remains elusive to him. I can guarantee people like Norm Geisler take Scripture exceptionally seriously. He's basically agnostic on the issue but leans toward an old earth view. One reason is that he takes science, not as simply a man-made endeavor, but understandings and abilities that are God-given and that are unique to the only creatures created in His image. Combining what he sees as God given with the OTHER important witness of God (The Creation) that is natural to apply our God-given abilities to ponder, Geisler takes all of these things very seriously.

B.W., I tend to believe there a multiple layers to Scripture.

Possibly, it comes from the particular Christian upbringing and environment I was raised within where the Bible was often treating as the living Word of God, with an emphasis on the text being alive. It is interesting how many people who become Christian report prior to their conversion the Bible was so dead, stagnant and boring and then after coming to Christ it became so alive and meanings previously missed so easily seen.

So I am personally quite open to deeper theological reflections. You get this in theology journals tool; new and interesting insights into Scripture that a surface level would never produce, but do in fact start to sound quite convincing once a case is made. Perhaps this is to a degree the Holy Spirit inspiring new and meaningful insights for people, to those who also see them, to be be encouraged and nourished by.

Your theological reflection here, at first made me pause. Then, as you fleshed it out, it's like, "yeah, I can see how you'd arrive at that insight." Obviously, lots of support for the idea. And you know, God in his infinite wisdom, why can't there be these types of insights into what I've come to accept as not just Scripture but the living word of God which people until this day are still uncovering meaning from.

That said, there is much to be said for "single meaning" and perhaps what you'd associate as being "western literalism." I don't believe we'd be honest if we fully discarded a main central reading of Scripture and then the last thing we want is to throw Scripture into some relativistic post-modern heap that is devoid of any true meaning or content. There are some atrocious "readings" or "insights" out there that are just plain wrong.

So, for me, I see there a main trunk growing up which to me represents a "single meaning" and what you might say is an over literalisation of the text. This forms the central core of Scripture is could be like the Day-Age interpretation and YEC interpretations. And then, there are additional insights. For example, I'm fond of some ideas found in the Framework hypothesis. I don't mind your insight here. And then the Sabbatical insights that I draw out in my own interpretation -- I don't know if you read it, but I'm starting to think it's not so much a position but more of a framework if you will that literalists can flesh out details on.

Now around this "trunk" you have all these different vibrant strands like glowing vines that are deeper insights jammed pack full of meaning. You know, some people might expect a book inspired and authored by God to glow and have some magical aura. I don't see the glow in the literal physical book, but rather in the words and deeper meanings that can be drawn out, and continue to be drawn out. It's like an infinite book of wisdom. And that to me, resonates with me as radiating divine authenticity.

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[B. W.]

K and Phil, and everyone,

There is an interesting quip mentioned in Rev 1:19 that sort of explain a way to explore biblical truths...

1-What we first see - perceive as narrative

2-Things that are - the layered meanings

3-Things to take place after - connections to facts and perception that are cyclic provable ( i.e. by repeating patterns Eccl 3:15), by the actions and in the case of Revelation - future actions that tie back to number 1 and 2.

These articles maybe helpful to grasp the the ancient Hebrew thought was to look at a narrative, then look into the layer sense of meanings, and focus on action.

http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Articl ... enism.html

http://www.godward.org/hebrew%20roots/h ... n_mind.htm

Even though Revelation 1:19 refers to the end times, the statement made in the verse is Hebraic in thought.

The linear way of western thought focus is on narrative, methods, steps, etc and often misses the layered meanings. It is like looking from the outside into a building to figure out the building. While the Hebrew is looking from both inside and outside of the building in order to make other buildings better or worse whatever the case maybe.

There are layered meanings in the bible and symbols, numbers, colors, letters help uncover the layers.

Here is food for thought to help the readers gain a sense into how this works. You will have to look these up on your own - just search biblical number meanings and Otiot Some sources are really good and other not so much. But search them out and let us know what these numbers mean...

So to begin: Look at Genesis 1:31

1-What is the significance of the number 6?

2-What does 6 mean in the bible?

3-What Hebrew letter that denotes 6 and what does it look like (represent) in its pictograph form?

4-What happened on the 6th day of creation?

In Genesis chapter 2 and 3 what and whom did Adam join/fasten himself too?

Next, Genesis 2:1

5-What is the significance of the number 7?

6-What does 7 mean in the bible?

7-What Hebrew letter that denotes 7 and what does it look like (represent) in its pictograph form?

8-How does, according to the context of Genesis chapters 1-3 do the numbers 6 and 7 tie into each other in regards to the tree of Knowledge and the test posed to humanity's first parents? Results of this?

Let me know and we can continue...
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[B. W.]

Before we get into this study let me say a few words on the use of numeric and letter meanings as well as symbols so folks can take his or her time exploring the deepness of the bible. Therefore:

Note for biblical number and letter (Otiot) meanings:

The Individual Hebrew Otiot (letters) have numeric values and these values contain meanings that are fine tuned by the context of scripture which they are found in. Also the letters (Otiot) of the ancient Hebrew was written in pictograph form and these forms also have and reveal meaning through the symbols. On the internet you will find these displayed as well as their meanings. Also please avoid on certain internet sites, etc, that seek secret Gematrai meanings by adding letter values together. This is to be avoided as it can leads to wackiness and abuse of this system.

Remember that it is in the contextual context of the portion of scripture a number/symbol/etc is found in is how one uncovers its shade of meaning correctly. From this, the Holy Spirit will begin to reveal and teach truths to you from the bible that connects to sound established doctrines and teachings of the faith in ways many reading have not encountered before.

Also note that all number values have a positive and negative meanings that only by the context of scripture they are found will one will be able to define without error. For example, the number three can mean simply God’s perfection that leads toward unity or human hubris that divides. To see how this works look at Balaam. He offered three distinct sacrifices which indicates that Hubris was involved to lead toward some sort of disunity was involved as a motive in his sacrifices. Which by the way, God thwarted in order to keep his perfecting plans for the Israelites intact to preserve unity between covenant partners.

In fact, Balaam’s hubris motive is revealed in Numbers 31:16 when he gave counsel to Balak to send the temple prostitutes of Ba’al to the leadership of Israel so that God would curse his own people and thus bring disunity caused by God. You got it, Balaam was gaming God by pitting God own word against His own word to bless obedience or curse disobedience harshly. In other words, Balaam was tempting God as do many folks today do.

So note this, one cannot use the number 3 in a mechanical one size fits all manner because the context of the scripture is what clarifies the true meaning which unlocks many truths from the bible to you by the Holy Spirit’s instruction. The number three in all cases it is used does not necessarily mean God's perfection as there is a negative side as well. More on this as we go. So as you discover number and letter meanings, take to heart to keep it simple and avoid the error of seeking secret messages.

Further Note: The letters represented in the ancient Hebrew Pictograph and help refine the meaning by the symbolism of pictograph portrayed. For example 1 through 9 meanings are pretty clear cut while the 10 through 400 ranges such as 10-19, 20-29, 30-39, 40-49, 50-59, etc and etc contain hints of the actions of the corresponding pictograph ascending number. For example, 10, is the pictograph, Yod, denoting the works and deeds of the hand and arm. Therefore 10-19 meanings have that expressed in the definitions expressing some sort of deeds, works of someone either man or God, etc.

Sometimes, one needs to know the Otiot symbols to uncover meaning of numbers. I suggest for beginners, not to do this without instruction, as it can be difficult. However once grasped, it is rather easy. As we go, you see how easy it is read these and avoid error. Lastly, remember that context (narrative) of scripture stands on its own. The numbers/symbols/otiot only help uncover truths contained in the portions of scriptures and context of scripture they are used in. May the Holy Spirit teach you from here from the bible in Jesus name. Amen.

With that we will look again at Genesis 1:1-5 the first day of creation.
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[B. W.]

As you figure out the meanings of the numbers 6 and 7 and what I mentioned in first frame of thread let's look at verse 1-5 again and see what we shall see ad dig deeper before going on to the 6th day (order timing) of of creation and the numbers 6 and 7.

The narrative begins

Genesis 1:1-5, In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters. 3 Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day. NASB

I suggest that the reader begin to look at what the biblical symbolism of light/day and dark/night means. Use study guides commentaries, the internet search, etc. When you do, several shades of meaning appear for light/day and dark/night. Now note the context is before the fall of humanity and anything else was created, therefore light/day and dark/night in this case does not refer to good or evil. You will find other meanings for the symbols of light/day and dark/night such as light denoting intelligence, wisdom, knowledge, that adheres to truth. It denotes soundness, wholeness, a perfecting plan based on the exercise of intelligence, wisdom, knowledge, that adheres to truth to reach a final goal with righteousness, mercy, and equity truthfully exposed. Darkness denotes absence of these traits or these traits not activated yet. Or a time when dreams/plans are formed, or resting period, or the veiling of something.

In the context you have Light as the expression of God's active intelligence, wisdom, knowledge, soundness, wholeness, in action. Darkness represents these traits in inaction or veiled not yet revealed. So when God separated the light from darkness he created order, a cycle, when he reveals his hidden plans represented by light (morning, day) and darkness which things are not yet revealed, plans formed, things play out. Next, One day is before any stars were ever made so it is not a earth day but a symbol of God creating order by creating balance, harmony, timing in which he expresses his plans, purposes, etc..

This was the first day... The number one in the Bible means simply a strong leader either bad of good. The idea is also of a strong leader who yokes/unites brings wholeness, soundness or one who does not. Jesus stated what in Matthew 11:28,29,30?

The Otiot or Hebrew letter pictograph is of an Ox head and its meaning is strength, a leader, one who inspires faith or destroys it, A Regent or ruler who creates order or chaos. In the Context you have God creating order, timing, balance out of nothing but himself and creating the universe in ordered stages. The context is all about cyclic order - that brings about the first Yom - day. The first period or cycle of time (Yom) is about bringing order, timing, to God's plan and stages of creation. He is the only true strong ruler, who has all strength/power/might to bring about wholeness/soundness, perfection in His due timing, Rev 21:1.

The balance between night and day of the first day also denotes God's abilty to use chaos to bring about order. Now this is a deep topic but this principle is found in the bible in Isaiah 45:5,6,7 NASB. Think of an explosion of light and the piecing together creation, how much chaos was used to create order/stability. Hence you have the truth of the refiners fire involved in creation and God's plan to reach Rev 21:1,2,3,4 goal.

That is the mystery of Genesis 1:1-5 being expressed. Remember that the ancient Hebrew language had approximately 8,500 words compare to our modern English of well over 350,000 words. Words like morning, evening, light, dark, day and night, year etc have varied shades of meaning that the context they are used in brings out along with the numbers, symbols, and letters verify. Learn to ask the Holy Spirit to help you uncover the shade of meaning through the context. This first example is rather daunting so I wrote it out here as well as in the first frame of this thread too.

It is a different way to look at the scriptures but well worth it. It does knock bias right of of human oriented methods of study and may even offend.

So for Home work go over Genesis 1:5-25 and note the context of each day of created timing (Yom) reveals. Search out what 2, 3, 4, and 5 mean in biblical numbers as well as what the Otiot symbol is for the Hebrew letters Bet 2 , Gimmel 3, Dalet 4, and Hey 5.

What correlations do you see according to context of the corresponding day of creation?

Here are two descent sites on Bible numbers for you to use:

http://www.biblestudy.org/bibleref/mean ... ble/2.html

http://asis.com/users/stag/godcount.html

And for the Otiot - Hebrew Letters this reference is good'

http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Gramma ... hchart.gif
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[B. W.]

Hebrew Otiot - Letters with their numeric values along with a description of the pictograph form.

1 Aleph - Ox Head
2 Bet - House
3 Gimel - Leg
4 Dalet - Doorway
5 Hey - Man standing with raised hands, behold what comes!
6 Vav Peg, nail look like a Y
7 Zayin - Plow
8 Chet - Wall
9 Tet - Basket
10 Yod - Arm/hand
20 Kaf - Palm of open hand
30 Lamed - Shepherd staff
40 Mem - flowing water
50 Nun - seed
60 Samekh - Hand on staff
70 Ayin - Eye
80 Pey - Mouth
90 Tsade - Man on his side
100 Kuf - Sun on Horizon
200 Resh - Human head
300 Shin - two front teeth
400 Tav - looks like a cross, Mark, sign

Place the numbers to the chart from this link after printing it out

http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Gramma ... hchart.gif
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[Nessa]

Far out!

Does this course come with a certificate?
How many people here believe the light wasnt actually light then in the beginning?

[B. W.]

Far out!

Does this course come with a certificate?
How many people here believe the light wasnt actually light then in the beginning?

No but it will help you grow strong in the Lord and the power of his strength. They will help you in many ways...

I know this study began haphazardly. This was due to it being on another thread and I picked up from there. I will get more ordered in the next lessons.

This is a method of study that is rarely taught in Christian circles and thus Christians miss out on truths that help one grow closer to the Lord. We end up having head knowledge with little or no heart knowledge to apply the things God has for us. When you learn to look at the narrative, the layered meanings (symbols, letters, number, etc), and how verse in the bible applies to your here and now, something amazing happens within a person. They learn to hear and discern the Holy Spirit personally teaching, leading, and guiding them personally.

I suggest that you do not try to memorize all this stuff in the links that I provided by rote but rather go slow and learn how they are used. In this manner, you actually know how the meanings apply and work and thus learn beyond what mere rote memorizing can even bring about.

No Test, or certificate... needed. Just a longing heart to know know God.

This series is now under electronic copyright laws as well as my own and take from these what you can and share but let others know who taught them - B W Melvin (Bryan w Melvin) that way any flak that comes from these can be directed at me and not you.

So let us jump to next lesson Gen 1:6-8 second day of creation in a more slower and orderly fashion so you can learn experientially... in stages...

On to the next thread:
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[B. W.]

The Second Day of Creation

As we begin the study on Genesis please keep in mind the principle Hebraic thought mentioned in Rev 1:19 based upon what is seen – the narrative, things that are – Layered meanings, and the things to come (take place) – the application for now and for the future.

The narrative concerns the verses:

Gen 1:6-8, “Then God said, "Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters." 7 God made the expanse, and separated the waters which were below the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse; and it was so. 8 God called the expanse heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.” NASB

The narrative provides the correct context needed to gain insight into the layered meanings found in a bible text. In western thought, folks look at the narrative only by looking at individual parts of the text such as exploring grammar, word meanings, context, and usage of words in bible text. This is important but must blend into the ancient Hebraic learning method of looking at the whole picture before exploring the individual parts to uncover truths brought out by the layered meanings.

Layered Meanings:

Exploring the layered meanings involves for the Christian believer coming into an understanding of how the symbols, numbers, letters, colors, name meanings, etc in the bible help uncover the layered meanings in the context of a biblical text. In John 14:26 and John 16:12-15 reveal that the Holy Spirit will teach us and reveal truths to live by. The method of study being presented here will aid this to become a reality to a Christian. However, to a non-Christian, this will appear as nonsense as it is written in 1 Co 2:14.

So let us look into the narrative and note the context concerns the second day of God’s creation; therefore, what is the second Otiot pictograph Hebrew letter, what does it represent, and what does the number two mean according to the biblical numerics?

The Otiot (Hebrew Pictograph letters) is letter Bet which represents a house and either being part of that house in fellowship or not. Next, the number two in biblical numerics expresses a witness of truth that verifies union or division that places one somewhere inside the house or outside. It is a number that denotes a division presented by truth.

Notice context of Genesis 1:6-8 involves division and then creating what as define clearly in verse 8?

Next, where does God says he lives?

Is God establishing for himself a spiritual house/domain? Why or why not?

Next, please note, the ancient Hebrew had only approximately 8,500 words so the word translated waters has various shades of meaning. What do you think waters symbolizes?

How could the use of the word waters help explain the expansion and formation of the universe and the vacuum of space, and the forces needed to move matter into its ordered place including the earth?

Can human beings measure this ordering and expansion found in the universe through Physics, astronomy, mathematics? What do these measurements find?

According to Gen 1:5 a Day (Yom) represented a cycle of measured time that brings God’s order through stages of creation mentioned in chapter one as well as beyond.

Next, does a 24 hour earth day have measurable cycles or time periods? Then why can’t God’s day have the same?

How long is a day for God then? Why can’t God’s days be cycles of time that move to order, wholeness, stability through processes that can be measured by cycles?

God’s days of creation represent cycles of time, or time periods of unspecified duration and is not limited to mean only a 24 hour earth day but means God’s measure and development of order in his creation through well define cycles that burst forth after the cycles are completed into a new brand new time period i.e. day. That new day too will have its own cyclic periods through it day (revealing) and night (planning).

In Gen 1:6-8, we see such measures of cyclic time mentioned by how many times the Hebrew words translated waters and expanse are used together. These denote cycles of time in the formation of the earth and the universe. The use of repeated words that are connected together are something to take note of and explore further as there is something there God is trying to reveal.

Therefore how many times waters and expanse are mentioned in Genesis 1:6-8?

What can we learn from the biblical number meaning of 5 as that is number of times both water and expanse are specifically mentioned?

Also what can we learn from the Hebrew pictograph letter, Hey which is the fifth letter of the ancient Hebrew alphabet, that also helps uncover the layered meanings of the text concerning the second day of creation?

The biblical number 5 often refers to God’s goodness of grace and the pictograph and letter is Hey meaning behold look what comes after. So water being mentioned 5 times refers that out of God’s goodness and grace alone he created so he beholds what comes next. This expresses order. God’s grace has order in its meaning and intent.

Again this stresses that God is all powerful to fashion chaos to shape order, stability, and soundness by grace. Grace is God’s empowerment to create order, wholeness, soundness, etc and etc. Notice the word translated as expanse is also mentioned 5 times and along with water.

What does expanse mean?

Now add 5 waters + 5 expanses and you get the number 10. Now the number Ten in biblical numeric's represents order that law brings from an authority one adheres too. Now read these verses: Hebrews 1:3, Col 1:15,16, Isa 45:12,18, Jer 10:12, Je 51:15 – do you see a connection?

Things to come – Applications:

The context of Genesis chapter one concerns God creating order out of an expanses of nothingness. It is a narrative with layered meanings that point to God bringing about order, soundness, wholeness, (a) healthy functionality.

Now knowing this about God, how is He creating order, wholeness, stability in your life?

Is he able to do so despite the chaos you create in your life?

How is God working on you?
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[1over137]

Remember that the ancient Hebrew language had approximately 8,500 words compare to our modern English of well over 350,000 words. Words like morning, evening, light, dark, day and night, year etc have varied shades of meaning that the context they are used in brings out along with the numbers, symbols, and letters verify

http://biblehub.com/text/genesis/1-5.htm
- Genesis 1:5 in Hebrew

Evening - ereb
http://biblehub.com/hebrew/erev_6153.htm
http://biblehub.com/hebrew/6153.htm

I do not see what other meaning evening can have besides evening.

[B. W.]

Hi Hana,

RE: Evening and morning phrases:

These parts of speech confuse people in the Genesis creation account. Please note, there is no indication of the sun and other stars before the 4th day of creation so what does the phrase evening and morning refer too?

Several answers are found in the bible and the best clues are found in 1 John 1:5, Rev 21:23 and in other places as well.

I ask folks to also consider these as symbols as well as a literal light/dark of a differing nature not the same as that caused by earth’s rotation. In fact, where is the rotation of the earth before it was ever made to indicate this the same as sunrise and sunset on earth?

Next clue is found in this verse: For it is the God who commanded light to shine out of darkness, who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. 2 Co 4:6 NKJV

Often in the bible, light refers to knowledge, wisdom, and understanding from God in both the OT ad NT. Darkness also is referred to in the bible as a time of dreams and planning done, or things done in secret.

As for evening look at these verses: Exodus 20:21 NKJV, Deut 4:11 NKJV ... This refers to shrouding Himself in a mystery while he gave the Law to the Moses and the people in the light of day.

What does it symbolize to you?

Now to grasp the evening and morning phrases in Genesis chapter One, please note that the concept of the Hebrew day begins at sundown goes thru the night watches and then continues from dawn thru the day watches till sundown thus making one full earth day. In chapter One we have the days of creation beginning in the evening (sundown) moving through the mysterious night as God plans and builds. Then we have the morning/day cycles at work where the reason for what was planned and built in the night is prepared during the day.

Again let me put it this way so folks can begin to understand, night/evening in the Genesis chapter one context symbolizes a period God’s wisdom, understanding, and knowledge plans were formulating to provide substance to build upon during the day. Think of God, in the evening phase of the creation as where he plans, and provides substance to build on during the day. Evening represents God's hidden plans and day represents the carrying out the plans built upon the substance made during the night. In other words, just as evening/night-darkness referring to wisdom, knowledge, understanding inwardly expressed and morning/day/light often referring to wisdom, knowledge, understanding outwardly expressed, the same theme is expressed in Gen chapter One.

Think of it this way, the morning/day involves implementing these plans to decorate the stage built during the night (the secret things God plans and does in the night). Genesis verses 1:9-10 on the Third day is divided by two phrases God saw it was good refers to the night day cycles. The evening cycles involved first by the plans that design and built the stage for God’s plans to break forth when dawn’s light comes. God saw this and said it was good. Now look at Genesis 1:2 what is first - darkness/evening or light? Then God said what?

So, in darkness God was doing what in Gen 1:2? Brooding, moving over the face of the deep...

This describes what to you?

How do you first form a math equation - does it involve first thinking about it before acting upon it - writing it out to solve it? Our own thinking is done the darkness of our minds first before it is made manifest by the light of day sorting out and solving the equation in the light. Ponder that concept for a bit and note this:

Whose reflection are we made in?

Now re-read Gen 1:1-5 again.

Make sense?
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[Kurieuo]

B.W., do you think the main meaning people would have understood is what you are here espousing?
If so, then I think there would need to be a side-manual on "how to read Scripture".

We can sometimes get carried away in our interpretations and so it is good to have an interpretative framework/s.
I wouldn't associate this as just being overly "literal" either, but rather keeping us honest in our interpretations and keeping us away from an anything goes approach which can lead to very subjective interpretations that are torn of true meaning.
Minimally, we must remain honest to the book we're reading and what the text actually says.

Taking the light found in Rev 21:23 -- it is pointed out that God is the light, Jesus the lamp and that there is no Sun.
We find that within the immediate text. The meaning of such here is restricted to the context of the new Kingdom (not an earthly one).
And in the very first chapter Revelation we are told it a book of significations (i.e., signs and symbols).

Let's look to Genesis on the other hand.
There's no additional information presented that there was no Sun. Indeed Day 4 contradicts such.
The focus of the book is ultimately one of origins, not necessarily significations.
In the first chapters Israel's God is shown to be creator of all.
Not just some mysterious light as in your evening and morning, BUT creator of all of of humanity, all life, all of the heavens and Earth.


Now, this all doesn't mean that we can't draw out interesting and valid insights.
However, I think what you're offering is an alternate interpretation and not merely insights.
So much so, that it that makes me feel uncomfortable.

What do I mean by "insights" versus "interpretation"?
Well, for example the 'serpent' or 'Tree of Life' we read of in Genesis.
Anyone who is a Christian can quite readily grasp that the real tree of life is Christ.
As for the serpent, well Scripture eventually associates such with the fallen angel Satan. We're also suspect given the serpent takes on the role as a deceiver and is able to speak. So this is no ordinary serpent and the identify of this player isn't fully revealed to us until later.
So it is a valid theological insight that the tree of life is Christ, and serpent is Satan.

These are not necessarily replacement interpretations.
Rather they are specific revelations that are progressively revealed, and when one learns that Jesus is the tree of life from whom we must partake, then reflecting upon the tree of life in Genesis takes on deeper (not new) meaning, as does the serpent once we realise such is Satan.
This further doesn't necessarily affect the more central meaning.

So, to summarise my thoughts here,
I'm stressing the importance of having some centralised understanding and by this a common and obvious meaning based upon the text.
If there be other insights, then they wrap around this one main central understanding (they do not replace it!).

[B. W.]

B.W., do you think the main meaning people would have understood is what you are here espousing?

If so, then I think there would need to be a side-manual on "how to read Scripture".

The main purpose is to let people realize that there more in the scripture that meets the eye. We are used to only the western philosophic linear methods of study. The ancient Hebrew method involves looking at the signs/symbols first before looking into the linear line by line approach of western traditions of learning. So this method is not understood very well. Also I jumped right into Genesis chapter one first without any order of explanation as I started this thread from another thread I did not want to derail. So, sorry for taking people who don't know how to swim to the deepest part of the pool first and pushing them in. I'll go slower and may even use another chapter from the NT to illustrate so folks can gain insight on looking at details of bible text in a manner that helps gain insight into the layered meaning of the text one is studying.

So, I will go slower.. and lower the water in the pool...

We can sometimes get carried away in our interpretations and so it is good to have an interpretative framework/s. I wouldn't associate this as just being overly "literal" either, but rather keeping us honest in our interpretations and keeping us away from an anything goes approach which can lead to very subjective interpretations that are torn of true meaning. Minimally, we must remain honest to the book we're reading and what the text actually says.

Taking the light found in Rev 21:23 -- it is pointed out that God is the light, Jesus the lamp and that there is no Sun. We find that within the immediate text. The meaning of such here is restricted to the context of the new Kingdom (not an earthly one). And in the very first chapter Revelation we are told it a book of significations (i.e., signs and symbols).

Agree with you here, folks can get carried away and I tried to warn of this in frame 3 page one on this thread. The looking at numbers and symbols cannot be used in a subjective manner, rather, they are for gaining further insights into the text in ways the Holy Spirit reveals to a person that remains true to the text. There are folks out there that go over board with this and go stupid with it. They do so with the western model of study as well. Suggest, to ask lots of questions, study,confirm, and learn.

...and yes, I will go slower...

Let's look to Genesis on the other hand. There's no additional information presented that there was no Sun. Indeed Day 4 contradicts such. The focus of the book is ultimately one of origins, not necessarily significations. In the first chapters Israel's God is shown to be creator of all. Not just some mysterious light as in your evening and morning, BUT creator of all of of humanity, all life, all of the heavens and Earth.

Now, this all doesn't mean that we can't draw out interesting and valid insights. However, I think what you're offering is an alternate interpretation and not merely insights. So much so, that it that makes me feel uncomfortable.

What do I mean by "insights" versus "interpretation"? Well, for example the 'serpent' or 'Tree of Life' we read of in Genesis. Anyone who is a Christian can quite readily grasp that the real tree of life is Christ. As for the serpent, well Scripture eventually associates such with the fallen angel Satan. We're also suspect given the serpent takes on the role as a deceiver and is able to speak. So this is no ordinary serpent and the identify of this player isn't fully revealed to us until later. So it is a valid theological insight that the tree of life is Christ, and serpent is Satan.

These are not necessarily replacement interpretations. Rather they are specific revelations that are progressively revealed, and when one learns that Jesus is the tree of life from whom we must partake, then reflecting upon the tree of life in Genesis takes on deeper (not new) meaning, as does the serpent once we realize such is Satan. This further doesn't necessarily affect the more central meaning.

So, to summaries my thoughts here, I'm stressing the importance of having some centralised understanding and by this a common and obvious meaning based upon the text. If there be other insights, then they wrap around this one main central understanding (they do not replace it!).

Regarding your summery, that is what the biblical symbols, number meanings, name meanings, color meanings, etc, in fact do...wrap around one main central understanding found in the narrative text and these do not replace it but rather shed more light on the text. This method also provides folks the ability to ask questions and explore the text.

In fact look at this study for John chapter 4 I did... and note in bible verse quotes I added the meaning of bible names and later go into the meaning of bible numbers used in the text...

Bible Study John Chapter 4
By Bryan W Melvin
Copyright 2014

Intro: The Following Chapters of John reveal God’s Invasion of light against Darkness

Isa 9:1-2 But there will be no more gloom for her who was in anguish; in earlier times He treated the land of Zebulun (dwellers of the haven) and the land of Naphtali (wrestlers/fighters) with contempt, but later on He shall make it glorious, by the way of the sea, on the other side of Jordan, Galilee (Turning) of the Gentiles. 2 The people who walk in darkness will see a great light; those who live in a dark land, the light will shine on them. NASB

Beyond the Galilee, the Gentiles will see a great light and so begins the spreading of God’s invasion of light

Note the place names as they reveal more revelation

John 4:1-6, Therefore when the Lord knew that the Pharisees (Pious Ones) had heard that Jesus (Yahweh Saves) was making and baptizing more disciples than John 2 although Jesus Himself was not baptizing, but His disciples were, 3 He left Judea (Land of Praise) and went away again into Galilee (Land of turning, revolution). 4 And He had to pass through Samaria (Watch Mountain). 5 So He came to a city of Samaria (Watch Mountain), called Sychar (Drunken, falsehoods, town of drunks), near the parcel of ground that Jacob (Heal grabber) gave to his son Joseph (Increaser); 6 and Jacob's well was there. So Jesus (Yahweh Saves), being wearied from His journey, was sitting thus by the well. It was about the sixth hour...NASB
(Note that the number 6 represents man (humanity) with the meaning: what man attaches self too... keep this in the background)

Jesus came to a city named Sychar – the name gives it away – a place of intoxication, a party town, a place of falsehoods-dreams. It was a town of mixed bloods and gentiles, shunned by the pious Hebrews. There was another temple built nearby like the temple in Jerusalem. So you have place of intoxication, drunkenness, and religious error. A town’s name more befitting a bar: such as the Drunken Samaritan… so that as it is written…

Isa 60:3, The Gentiles shall come to your light, and kings to the brightness of your rising. NKJV

Main Point 1: John 4:7-15 - A Stage is Set (Read out loud and expound)

It was Around 12 noon - the 6th hour of the Jewish day – what does high noon symbolize to you?

Decision time! Note: 6 is the number for man and the Hebrew letter representing 6 means attachment hence what man attaches himself too – will it be to works/sin/self/world/devil or God?

A woman from area known as Watch Mountain (Samaria) where a replica of the temple in Jerusalem was built came at noon. This was an odd hour to draw water in the heat of the day. Woman was most likely ostracized by living according to the name of the town she lived – Drunken Samaritan – Party Town and not according to the Temple rules dictated from Watch Mountain’s erring religious system

She encounter Yahweh who Saves – Jesus – southeast of Galilee (Place of turning/revolution) – a light that shattered the darkness of her life

Question: Do you, or have you ever felt feel ostracized, forgotten, lost?

More form John 4:7-15

Jesus said what – give me a drink from the well of Jacob. Jesus crosses cultural and racial barriers

Gentiles will see a great light: so what connecting theme does Isaiah 9:2 and Isaiah 60:1-5 NKJV share?

John 4:10-15: The discussion on water

When the woman is speaking what does she mean by water?

When Jesus is speaking what does he mean by Living Water?

Regular water from Jacob’s (Heal grabber, supplanter) well – the world’s intoxication both religious and fleshly

Or Living Water Jesus brings which is what? In John 3:5 and in John 7:38-39 what’s being mentioned?

What was water used for in John 2:6 and in the New Birth? What connections do you see?

John 4:15-19: Jesus gives a word of knowledge… uncovering her darkness so she can be healed

Again note the numbers used: 5 husbands and another who is not – equals 6 - man’s ways and works

5 is the biblical number of grace and she could not find it living in accordance to the supplanter’s water

How has God’s grace alluded you? What do you seek to fill your need? Party town living or religious acts?

John 4:19-20, the woman changes the subject to religion after being confronted with light – why –

Why do we? (Discuss)

John 4:21-24: Jesus light invades the darkness- falsehood of religion – How?

In these verses – what do you think Jesus is saying?

What is His light dawning on you right now?

John 4:24, "God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."

Worship (serve, reverence) God in spirit and truth – realize that man’s well waters cannot revive whether it be living in drunkenness, intoxications the flesh, or manmade religious ordnances/works

Spirit for us – new Birth of Holy Spirit within us revealing truth to us to set us free from darkness (John 8:32)

What truth was Jesus revealing to the woman at the well?

God’s Light shatters darkness – how?

Main Point 2: John 4:24-30 – The Revelation of Truth

Messiah – the anointed one – she then realized who Jesus was and did what?

She Left her clay water pot/jar.

Clay represents man (clay man was fashioned from) so she left her old self and did what? Have you left your old self at Jesus’ feet? Why not?

How did Party Town of intoxication respond? See John 4:30, 39-40

Main Point 3: In the meantime the disciples gathered around Jesus

John 4:31-34, Meanwhile the disciples were urging Him, saying, "Rabbi, eat." 32 But He said to them, "I have food to eat that you do not know about." 33 So the disciples were saying to one another, "No one brought Him anything to eat, did he?" 34 Jesus said to them, "My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me and to accomplish His work. NASB

What work?

Joh 4:30 They (the people of intoxications) went out of the city, and were coming to Him.

John 4:35-38, "Do you not say, 'There are yet four months, and then comes the harvest'? Behold, I say to you, lift up your eyes and look on the fields, that they are white for harvest. 36 "Already he who reaps is receiving wages and is gathering fruit for life eternal; so that he who sows and he who reaps may rejoice together. 37 "For in this case the saying is true, 'One sows and another reaps.' 38 "I sent you to reap that for which you have not labored; others have labored and you have entered into their labor." NASB

What is the work and food we are to give as his people?

Is it shinning His light, dispensing his food, giving his water or shinning our darkness instead?

What did the woman at the well do? See John 4:39-43

How does it match Jesus words in verses 35-38? Is it any wonder she left her clay jar at Jesus’ feet – will you?

Jesus stayed two days – Two in biblical numbers two means witness of truth that draws to unity or divides/separates

The folks at the Drunken Samaritan came to the truth and left their clay pots but the chosen people did what?

Closing: Let’s see turn too John 4:44-48 to find out

Place names: Cana - place of bending reeds, Galilee – place of turning, revolution, Capernaum - Rest that repentance brings, Judea – Place of praise

What did they see Jesus do in Jerusalem (City of God’s peace)?

John 4:48 why did Jesus say this?

John 4:49-54 Jesus heals – His light shone defeating darkness at the seventh hour

7 in bible is the number for God’s spiritual perfection, wholeness… it is the from Hebrew letter Zayin whose pictograph is that of a plough hence 7 also represents God’s ploughing spiritual perfection in the heart...

John 4:54 again is the second sign – note the number two and represents witness to truth….that divides

The royal official believed in Jesus and Light was revealed and a number 2 represents what?

What is this Light?

Clues found in Deut 32:3-4 and Exodus 34:5-7 and Job 34:10-12 – The proceeding chapters of John show how God shines his light that invades darkness and shatters it. We’re to ask what in his name?

Isa 60:1-2, "Arise, shine; for your light has come, And the glory of the LORD has risen upon you. 2 "For behold, darkness will cover the earth And deep darkness the peoples; But the LORD will rise upon you And His glory will appear upon you." NASB

Isa 9:2, The people who walk in darkness will see a great light; those who live in a dark land, the light will shine on them. NASB

1 Jn 4:8 …for God (God’s nature) is (to) love.

(Greek text expresses that it is God’s nature to love and not that love is God himself as erroneously taught by some religious folks without understanding)

God’s love contains all the elements found in Deut 32:3-4, Exodus 34:5-7, Job34:10-12, and in the entire bible where it describes God’s character; thus, justice is brought to the sick who had been bound… through His healing light…

God’s character (His name) gives shape, defines, and gives substance to his love… things we can ask for according to his name…for his glory – not ours…

Agape love means to cherish, nurture, edify, build up, chasten, according to the character of God’s light, name…. and is far deeper than we in this mortal now can ever realize.

(what do you think of this?) END

[B. W.]

This is part of the above study on John. In it I mention a list I complied of number meanings, however, for those reading this, that will remain with me and the group I sent this out too. All is copyright material. There are links at the bottom of the page along with other info...

Also note in the review how he numbers, word meanings, and symbols add details to the narrative text in a more profound way that does not take anything away from the text at all. Instead, adds depths or layer meanings written by the Lord in the text of the bible.

Bible Study John Chapter 4
By Bryan W Melvin
Copyright 2014

Study using numbers and symbols

In John 4:7 please note the number six is used and the context of Jesus waiting at the well. The six hour of the day watch would be high noon. The image is one of Jesus waiting for what?

The number six gives us a clue as it is the established number that represents mankind. The Hebrew letter used for the number six is Vav and it looks like a Y in the ancient Hebrew pictograph. It means to peg, nail, attach too. Therefore when six refers to man (or woman) it is expressing what man attaches himself too which is sin, etc, and its manifestations and if redeemed - attached to God (which matches the Hebrew definition of faith). When studying these numbers and letters, please note that there is an opposite meaning as well which the context of the scripture help define that avoids error.

The bible clearly states that fallen humanity is attached to sin, the world’s agenda, and the devil’s agenda, which is dysfunction through and through. Therefore, we have Jesus waiting to see whom people choose to attach themselves to. It is like a question hanging in the air: will this attachment be to Himself by faith or will the folks remain in the world at a well dug by a former supplanter who was reformed while crossing a river long ago and found true faith that limps relying on God? Jesus was near enough to overlook a town, waiting: who will they attach too?

High Noon

A woman came to the well at that hour. Usually outcast collected water at noon as all others collected in the morning and evening. The issue is water. Jacob wrestled with God midst the river and received a new name and a new life. Will this woman and the town receive or reject? Whom will they attach too?

Jesus confronts the woman’s heart issue with a word of knowledge and two more numbers appear in John 4:18 and these are the numbers 5 and 1. Five is the biblical number that represents Grace. It is the Hebrew letter Hey which is a pictograph of a person with hands in the air. It means behold and therefore – Behold the type of Grace one holds dear too. The number one is Aleph, a pictograph of a bulls head and is used to denote the number one and means strong leader.

So we have the woman’s heart revealed by these numbers as they refer to her and not God per context of scripture. She was seeking her own image of saving grace (5) through one failed relationship after another in search for one strong leader (1) type to give purpose to her life. In this, she found her life lived as an outcast lost in dysfunctional living, always missing what her heart craved. Then Jesus appeared and revealed to her, her heart.

How has he you?

With the numbers so far revealed in the order they appear add 6+5=11. 11 is the number that represents one’s deeds that bring disorder confusion, failures. So you have the woman who sought her own grace and finding only disorder confusion, and failures. She then added one more to the list (one who not her husband) and we next get 11+1=12. 12 is biblical number representing governing order and in context here: from a strong man not her husband. In the context, her governing order seeking someone strong to give her life meaning/purpose only continued to bring disorder confusion, and failures in her life. She needed new living water to wash this away!

Do you?

Instead of admitting to this directly, she reverted to discussing the religion of Samaria and its temple system, which by the way, most likely cast her on the fringes of society due her to lifestyle of seeking grace through failed relationships.

Jesus reminds her that neither at Watch Mountain temple nor at Jerusalem is where one finds purpose to life through ritual worship. Jesus identified that he is the one and one true Strong Messiah to her that can give her life. She saw this and left her clay pot (her old self – clay represent human beings) at the well and went into the city. Jacob also saw God, received a new name, and was a new man when he left the river. She left her water in the jar, and exchanged her never satisfying water for the water of the Holy Spirit Jesus gave. She found faith.

This woman lost her old self and what did she do next? She told the town. Soon the town came out and met Jesus. As they approached Jesus said to his disciples to look, the fields are bursting forth a harvest! High Noon…had come to town.

Two Extra Days

The Jesus stayed two days with these folks John 4:40 tells us. You have another number revealed. Two in bible numbers is the Hebrew letter Bet which represents a house. The number two represents the witness of truth verifying what divides or brings union in a house. So you have Jesus verifying that these people, by Truth, united these folks to himself, his house. The truth is they came to Jesus and found the living waters his house brings.

Add the number 2 for the two days he stayed, 12+2 and you get 14. 14 is bible number that represents deliverance, salvation, of a fulfilled oath/promise. This oath is mentioned in the context of John 4:23-24. Jesus delivered the folks of that town out of their darkness and brought salvation’s healing to them. The numbers do not lie and these most certainly do add to the context truth so often overlooked!

Now note that after two days Jesus left town, John 4:43. This is a hidden number. It refers to the same two days mentioned prior but it is still mentioned and thus can be added in and subtracted as well. Add it to 14+2 and you get 16. 16 is the biblical number representing the sanctifying work of God’s love. Subtract it 14-2 and you get 12 which is God governing order/authority reestablished. I am not making this up!

There is more as the context moves on. In John 4:52 another number is mentioned referring to healing of the nobleman’s son and that is seven. Keep in mind the number used in John 4:43 which is two that denotes adding and subtracting from. You have 16+7 which equals 23 and 14+7 which equals 21. 23 is the number for death and 21 is the number for exceeding sinfulness of sin. The son was healed from death and also note that the sin of the area is mentioned in John 4:44 which connects to the other gospel accounts: referring to a lack of faith.

What does this mean?

Wait – listen up another number is mentioned in verse 54 and it is the number two: A witness to the truth. So you have 21+2=23 and 23+2=25. 25 in biblical numbers represents forgiveness of sins and repentance that God’s Grace brings. Again 23 is the number for death so hence, God’s grace frees us from Death. That is what Jesus did for the nobleman’s son. This in line with the context. So you discover that God’s grace frees us from sin (21) and death (23). How, by the death of Jesus on the cross and his resurrection as the number 23 appears twice.

Now there is a hidden variable in the text and that is Jesus himself – so add one to the last numbers and you get 24 and 26. 24 represents the abundance the Priesthood brings back to the people, and 26 represents the number God because YHWH letters equal 26 in its germatria form, or can mean the gospel of the Messiah. So where does the rest of the story lead?

This is an example of using the biblical numbers and Hebrew pictograph letters according to the context of scripture. From this, may the Holy Spirit teach you many truths about Jesus! Amen…

Here is a bit more to whet your appetite for God’s Word

Since the Passover season is closing: Look at Matthew 26 and context involving the betrayal of Jesus by Judas Iscariot. Verse one mentions the number two and sets the stage for the context which identifies which numbers and symbols are used. In Matt 26:14-17, we see Judas selling Jesus for 30 pieces of silver and then the scene moves to all those Judas betrays at the Lord’s Supper. In Matt 26:20 you have the number 12 revealed and the context continues. Verse 34 you have the number 3 mentioned. Then in verse 40 one hour is mentioned.

We will go in order here as the context is negative – betrayal: Recall that the number two represents the witness of truth verifying what divides or brings union in a house. Next you have 30 which represents a Blood Covenant, a calling, consecration and the Hebrew letter for 30 is Lamed which looks like - J - a shepherd’s staff. Hence it represents the movement of the heart by Shepherd into or out of a blood covenant, or calling. Jesus mentions that He, the true shepherd will be stuck in verse 31 and Judas was moved by the devil (Luke 22:3) and the devil enter in Judas as Judas’ true shepherd.

Now we have 2+30 which equals 32 and 32 is the biblical number that represents the blessings and curses involved in a Blood covenant. On one hand, you have the blessings of the new Covenant given to the eleven disciples and the curse given to the one betrayer. Judas not only betrayed Jesus, he betrayed the remaining eleven disciples as well and broke off fellowship of the house by the witness of the truth of his heart (Number Two).

Silver represents – Redemption in the bible. So you have Judas selling his own redemption to the devil to be the devil’s shepherd who betrays, robs, and brings ruin.

Now add the umber 12 to 32 and you get 44. 44 is the number denoting Judgment rendered and judgment of the world. 12 is the number representing governing order, representative leadership. You have a double entrée here: one is that Judas was betraying God’s governing order in exchange or his own, and two Jesus was establishing His Governing order through Judgment. Now seek out and read the verses in the Gospel where Jesus declares that the devil was judged and you will see this.

Three in mentioned so add 3 to the mix and you get 47 which is the number denoting Humility. So you have 3 the number for God’s completion, God’s unity, that is established i.e. set foot too (Gimmel is the Hebrew letter for three which looks like a leg and a foot indicates movement, motion, walking – the Lord establishes one’s steps is the idea here).

Jesus with Humility gave Judas the bread and permitted him to betray and note the context of Isaiah chapter Fifty Three sometime soon regarding this in full accord of the will of the Father and Holy Spirit. Next, add 1 and you get 48 which is the number denoting the Father’s Blessing. Note the blessing Jesus gave in the Lord’s Supper as well as the Father’s Blessings thru Jesus’ finished work on the Cross and resurrection all mentioned in Matthew 26. What is the Holy Spirit teaching you right now as you re-read Mathew 26? You can hear him speak?

Do an experiment after reading this, please reread these chapter mentioned again and note the symbols used like bread and wine in Matthew 26 and experience more on how the Holy Spirit teaches you…

Be blest!

Note on Biblical Numbers and ancient Hebrew Pictograph letters these numbers represent

Let me share on an aside note concerning the use of Biblical numbers and the Hebrew letters that these numbers represent and how these add further insights from the context of scripture. From these, you will be led by the Holy Spirit to established themes in the bible concerning Jesus. As for biblical number meanings try these websites out for reference:

http://www.biblestudy.org/bibleref/mean ... ction.html

http://asis.com/users/stag/godcount.html

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/number01.htm

There is also the Jewish sources as well on this, however, I compiled a list and sorted out through all the differing opinions then matched these to the ancient Hebrew pictograph letters that represent numbers for further analysis which helps refine the meanings. My list is not complete and where the number meaning is not clear, I posted a question mark (?) next to it. Hope to send this basic list I compiled to you soon after a few more tweaks. For the letter pictographs, please see this link.

http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Gramma ... grams.html

With this, also note there is a lot of flakiness out there concerning the use of Hebrew numbers and letters (Otiot). When people do not stick with the context of the verses these numbers are found in they often stray into fantasy. Some will use biblical gematria in a way that seeks coded messages. So my best advice, flee from this. Context, contextual continuity matters! In the number study of John 4 please learn from this as this method sticks with context and connects to certain biblical themes found throughout the bible that honors Jesus…

[1over137]

Hi Hana,

RE: Evening and morning phrases:

These parts of speech confuse people in the Genesis creation account. Please note, there is no indication of the sun and other stars before the 4th day of creation so what does the phrase evening and morning refer too?

Several answers are found in the bible and the best clues are found in 1 John 1:5, Rev 21:23 and in other places as well.

I ask folks to also consider these as symbols as well as a literal light/dark of a differing nature not the same as that caused by earth’s rotation. In fact, where is the rotation of the earth before it was ever made to indicate this the same as sunrise and sunset on earth?

Next clue is found in this verse: For it is the God who commanded light to shine out of darkness, who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. 2 Co 4:6 NKJV

Often in the bible, light refers to knowledge, wisdom, and understanding from God in both the OT ad NT. Darkness also is referred to in the bible as a time of dreams and planning done, or things done in secret.

As for evening look at these verses: Exodus 20:21 NKJV, Deut 4:11 NKJV ... This refers to shrouding Himself in a mystery while he gave the Law to the Moses and the people in the light of day.

What does it symbolize to you?

Now to grasp the evening and morning phrases in Genesis chapter One, please note that the concept of the Hebrew day begins at sundown goes thru the night watches and then continues from dawn thru the day watches till sundown thus making one full earth day. In chapter One we have the days of creation beginning in the evening (sundown) moving through the mysterious night as God plans and builds. Then we have the morning/day cycles at work where the reason for what was planned and built in the night is prepared during the day.

Again let me put it this way so folks can begin to understand, night/evening in the Genesis chapter one context symbolizes a period God’s wisdom, understanding, and knowledge plans were formulating to provide substance to build upon during the day. Think of God, in the evening phase of the creation as where he plans, and provides substance to build on during the day. Evening represents God's hidden plans and day represents the carrying out the plans built upon the substance made during the night. In other words, just as evening/night-darkness referring to wisdom, knowledge, understanding inwardly expressed and morning/day/light often referring to wisdom, knowledge, understanding outwardly expressed, the same theme is expressed in Gen chapter One.

Think of it this way, the morning/day involves implementing these plans to decorate the stage built during the night (the secret things God plans and does in the night). Genesis verses 1:9-10 on the Third day is divided by two phrases God saw it was good refers to the night day cycles. The evening cycles involved first by the plans that design and built the stage for God’s plans to break forth when dawn’s light comes. God saw this and said it was good. Now look at Genesis 1:2 what is first - darkness/evening or light? Then God said what?

So, in darkness God was doing what in Gen 1:2? Brooding, moving over the face of the deep...

This describes what to you?

How do you first form a math equation - does it involve first thinking about it before acting upon it - writing it out to solve it? Our own thinking is done the darkness of our minds first before it is made manifest by the light of day sorting out and solving the equation in the light. Ponder that concept for a bit and note this:

Whose reflection are we made in?

Now re-read Gen 1:1-5 again.

Make sense?
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-
-

No Bryan.

Am reading the Genesis 1:1-5 over and over trying to think on it the way you suggest.

Genesis 1:1-5, In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters. 3 Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day. NASB

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Then God said: Let there be wisdom, understanding, knowledge. God saw the wisdom was good, and God separated the wisdom from the dreams and plans. God called the wisdom wisdom and the plans he called plans. And there was planing and there was carrying out the plans, one knowledge.

That does not sound like having all sense. What am I doing wrong?

[B. W.]

...Am reading the Genesis 1:1-5 over and over trying to think on it the way you suggest.

Genesis 1:1-5, In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters. 3 Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day. NASB

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Then God said: Let there be wisdom, understanding, and knowledge. God saw the wisdom was good, and God separated the wisdom from the dreams and plans. God called the wisdom and the plans he called plans. And there was planning and there was carrying out the plans, one knowledge.

That does not sound like having all sense. What am I doing wrong?

You are doing nothing wrong, in fact you are seeing things through the clouds so to speak. Let us take time to look at the verses of Proverbs 3:19-20 and add in the Hebrew word definitions of wisdom, understanding, and knowledge used in verse 1-5 and apply to these to the text to bring clarity:

Proverbs 3:19-20, The LORD by wisdom (skill, technical abilities, shaping things, doing task with intelligence involved) founded the earth, By understanding He (acts of wisdom/knowledge that continues to keep the house) established the heavens. 20 By His knowledge (functional deep expertise) the deeps were broken up And the skies drip with dew. NASB

As you read the creation days, do you see the above pattern emerging?

These verses (19-20) expresses that there is an order in the universe of God's creation. First in the evening where the hidden workings of Proverbs 3:19-20 taking shape and next, dawn comes illuminating (bringing) forth Proverbs 3:19-20 into action.

Does that make sense to you?

Next, Now note how Genesis 1:1,2 begins - was it in light or darkness when God began to create?

Genesis 1:3 mentions dawn - light came when?

So there comes first evening (hidden things come about) and then dawn (Hidden revealed) which makes one complete creation day according to God's concept concerning the length of His creative day... In fact that is a pattern God has to his ways of doing things - bringing the hidden things to light...

Therefore, think of Proverbs 3:19-20 forming first in the evening/night and then bursting forth at dawn/day as that might help.

In the Genesis account note how often it states God saw it was good - this help sort out the time of day. I Gen 1:1-5 the evening/night was first, the there was light and God saw that as what?

There is more but for now, can you see this principle in Genesis chapter one’s creation account?

Once you see this a bit better, we can continue into the layer of meaning in the text.
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