how dose a person know they are saved

[abelcainsbrother]

I am not talking about ones saved always saved but I do know that we can lose our salvation.

What I am talking about it how do we know that we are saved.

then I stated how I believe we know that we are saved and this is why


1Jhon 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jhon 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jhon 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.


That's what the bible says

Show scripture that says a person can lose their salvation because by the point you're trying to make about the commandments you are implying it.I understand the quotes you point out but they do not overide thescriptures I gave.What you are doing is picking a few verses out to make a point while ignoring what the rest says.It does'nt really matter what you or I think about it,it matters what God's word says.A person knows they are saved when they are born again and it has nothing to do with works.Nobody has ignored the scripture you give but, why are you overlooking the scripture I gave?It has everything to do with our faith in God when our faith is right the commandments will follow and this is important stuff you need to understand because it is not good to add your opinions into God's word and believe that a person is not saved if they are not following the commandments,you cannot base your judgment onto that person who may have have a faith problem,fix that and everything flows automatically.The truth is only God knows who is saved and who is'nt,man cannot know.

[RickD]

I am not talking about ones saved always saved but I do know that we can lose our salvation.

What I am talking about it how do we know that we are saved.

then I stated how I believe we know that we are saved and this is why


1Jhon 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jhon 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jhon 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.


That's what the bible says

And again, where does it mention salvation?

Or in other words, why do you think John is referring to salvation, when he talks about being "in him"?

Maybe this will help:

2:5b-6 John's use of the phrase "in Him" is different from Paul's. Paul used this
phrase to describe every believer's relationship to Christ because of his or
her justification. The unsaved are not "in Christ." However, John used "in
Him" as Jesus did—in the Upper Room Discourse—to describe, not all
believers, but the group of believers who abide in Christ (John 15:1-8). In
John 15:8 Jesus said, "By this [abiding] is my Father glorified, that you
bear much fruit. So you will be my disciples." To abide in Christ means to
obey Him (John 15:10).
"Thus the test of 'abiding' in him is, as before, whether or
not the claimant is living a life of obedience to God."95
Abiding in Christ is another synonym for having an intimate relationship
with Him, as are having fellowship with God and knowing God
experientially. John's point was that a believer who is abiding in God will
obey God, just as Jesus Christ abode in God and gave evidence of that by
obeying His Father. John used the word translated "abide" (Gr. meno) 24
times in 1 John (2:6, 10, 14, 17, 19, 24 [thrice], 27 [twice], 28; 3:6, 9, 14,
15, 17, 24 [twice]; 4:12, 13, 15, 16 [thrice]). This indicates a major
emphasis on the believer's abiding relationship in this epistle. The
obligation of every Christian is not just to obey God's orders (vv. 4-5), but
also to "walk in the same manner as He walked," to follow the example of
His Son (v. 6).

http://soniclight.org/constable/notes.htm

[jpbg33]

One of the big verses that the ones saved always saved people use

Rom_8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

So even ones saved always saved people believe that to be " in Christ" means to be saved.

So if 1john 2:3-5 was referring to people knowing that they were " in Christ" then I am right that the way you know you are saved is if you keep His commandments.

[RickD]

One of the big verses that the ones saved always saved people use

Rom_8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

So even ones saved always saved people believe that to be " in Christ" means to be saved.

So if 1john 2:3-5 was referring to people knowing that they were " in Christ" then I am right that the way you know you are saved is if you keep His commandments.

Did you even read the quote I posted? Romans was written by Paul. John was written by John. Look at context. When you do, can you see that Paul and John were talking about different things?

[RickD]

And FYI,

OSAS is Once Saved Always Saved.

Not "ones" saved...

Next time I'm calling the grammar police!!!!

[jpbg33]

Paul was referring to abiding in Christ as when Jesus was referring to abiding in the vine when Jesus was talking about abiding in the vine he was talking about being a Christian when John was talking about knowing him he was talking about being a Christian when Paul was talking about being in Christ he was talking about being a Christian. If you are not abiding in the vine when you die you will go to hell if you are not in Christ when you die you will go to hell

[jpbg33]

It is as simple as this

A dead man can not become alive in and of him self it takes God to raise him up

But a live man can kill him self.

[RickD]

Paul was referring to abiding in Christ as when Jesus was referring to abiding in the vine when Jesus was talking about abiding in the vine he was talking about being a Christian when John was talking about knowing him he was talking about being a Christian when Paul was talking about being in Christ he was talking about being a Christian. If you are not abiding in the vine when you die you will go to hell if you are not in Christ when you die you will go to hell

What is your basis for claiming that John and Paul were talking about the same thing?

[LittleHamster]

Oh no! the thread that keeps reincarnating

[abelcainsbrother]

It is as simple as this

A dead man can not become alive in and of him self it takes God to raise him up

But a live man can kill him self.

Only by rejecting Christ and never being saved.I want you to provide scripture to backup your claim that a person can lose their salvation since you disagree with once saved always saved.

[jpbg33]

Jonh 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

You are clamming that this verse is for disciples only which you clam I guess to mean preachers. Which is not how osas preacher are living. everyone I have seen and I have seen a lot do the same sins there congregations are doing. So saying that disciples are just preachers is not what osas believe. The word disciples just means a learner. So according to osas a Christian are not to be a learner of Jesus. Just say you love Him and weight on him to come get you who ever He is.

and about where I prof osas is wrong?


Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Heb 6:7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
Heb 6:8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

[abelcainsbrother]

Jonh 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

You are clamming that this verse is for disciples only which you clam I guess to mean preachers. Which is not how osas preacher are living. everyone I have seen and I have seen a lot do the same sins there congregations are doing. So saying that disciples are just preachers is not what osas believe. The word disciples just means a learner. So according to osas a Christian are not to be a learner of Jesus. Just say you love Him and weight on him to come get you who ever He is.

and about where I prof osas is wrong?


Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Heb 6:7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
Heb 6:8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

You are reading losing salvation into it.It is actually saying it is impossible to lose your salvation.I used to think it said that too.I don't want this to divide us or anything the important thing is for a person to truly be saved and this I think we can agree on.

[Philip]

Guys, I suggest you study this godandscience.org article concerning the eternal security of a believer:

http://www.godandscience.org/doctrine/s ... iever.html

It is very comprehensive, and I think, overwhelmingly compelling!

[jpbg33]

only Christians can be "partakers of the Holy Ghost" and Paul sad that this person was and that "whose end is to be burned". Christians do not get burned they go to heaven. Not only was Paul preaching that you could loose your salvation but Jesus was also he said Jonh 15:6 "If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.". Any Christian that reads there bible is disciples because disciples just means to be a leaner.

We read our bible to learn more about Jesus we go to church to learn more about Jesus A lot of what we do as Christians is learning about Jesus. We are all to be disciples of Christ.

[melanie]

A person knows they are saved because despite how crappy we all are Jesus hung on a cross and died for us.
"Behold the Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the world"
Jesus went through an agonising death, perfect and innocent, so that we could be saved, so that our sins could be washed clean.
That is what sacrifice is, laying down your life to save another's.
That is how we know we are saved because Jesus sacrificed himself to save us.
He didn't get it half way finished, or partly done.
It is done.
We don't need to look around at christians questioning who is saved we just need to look at the cross.
He came here for the sick.
Not the slightly sick or the less sick of a pretty sick bunch but all those in need of Him.
He didn't think any of us were too sickly to disqualify us from His sacrifice, I don't see why we have to judge each other on the depth of our 'sickness' to determine otherwise.