Manna

[stuartcr]

So why don't you believe in miracles?

I must confess I had a really hard time believing some of them yet I never doubted the ressurection.
The more I ponder on them though the more I think why not? I mean lets face it, life itself is a miracle isnt it?

How does one go about believing in something today, that was unbelievable yesterday? I think it takes God's intervention. When/if He wants me to believe something, I'm sure I will.

Do you truly believe that Jonah spent 3 days in the stomach of a sea creature?

Honestly? I don't know.

I haven't read the passage since I was a kid so I would need to read it again but having said that, I believe in the ressurection so anything is possible.

As I've mentioned a number of times before, I also believe anything is possible...but there are many things that have been said to have happened, that I do not believe have happened.

[EssentialSacrifice]

I also believe anything is possible...but there are many things that have been said to have happened, that I do not believe have happened

Yeah, God. I do not know what you are wanting from me.

intriguing, it's like viewing an accident on the turnpike and can't avert your eyes ... You say you have belief in God but ...

What I want from you is your definition of God, because this ... is not traditional belief in the God of Abraham as we know Him. (God capable of anything ... omnipotence ) Who is your (G)god you speak of ? Can you define more ?

[stuartcr]

I also believe anything is possible...but there are many things that have been said to have happened, that I do not believe have happened

Yeah, God. I do not know what you are wanting from me.

intriguing, it's like viewing an accident on the turnpike and can't avert your eyes ... You say you have belief in God but ...

What I want from you is your definition of God, because this ... is not traditional belief in the God of Abraham as we know Him. (God capable of anything ... omnipotence ) Who is your (G)god you speak of ? Can you define more ?

I thought we weren't speaking anymore? You must have found something original in what I have said.

Where did the quote...yeah, God...come from?

I have no definition of God for you, sorry. I've never found it to be necessary, why is it for you? I believe that whoever created everything, is capable of anything.

[RickD]

So Stuart,

It's not that you don't believe God could've done what the bible says, but rather, you don't believe the bible is accurate, with what it says happened?
Or, you have problems with inerrancy of scripture?

Is that accurate?

[stuartcr]

So Stuart,

It's not that you don't believe God could've done what the bible says, but rather, you don't believe the bible is accurate, with what it says happened?
Or, you have problems with inerrancy of scripture?

Is that accurate?

I think perhaps some of the events in the bible have been exaggerated or modified to have more impact.

[RickD]

So Stuart,

It's not that you don't believe God could've done what the bible says, but rather, you don't believe the bible is accurate, with what it says happened?
Or, you have problems with inerrancy of scripture?

Is that accurate?

I think perhaps some of the events in the bible have been exaggerated or modified to have more impact.

Regarding Christ's crucifixion, you said:

People have been captured, falsely accused and tried, tortured and crucified for everyone elses' mistakes, since the beginning of time.

Are you saying that Christ's crucifixion was exaggerated? That Christ really didn't die for the sins of the world?

[EssentialSacrifice]

I thought we weren't speaking anymore?

yeah, me too ... read a little closer ... intriguing, it's like viewing an accident on the turnpike and can't avert your eyes ...

You must have found something original in what I have said.

already gave you credit for this... do you need more ?

Where did the quote...yeah, God...come from?

Re: Manna
Postby stuartcr » Fri Aug 14, 2015 12:18 pm

EssentialSacrifice wrote:
well, you said I believe in God because that's how I was made

so I thought since you used the word "made" it sounded like you might believe in a maker ?

Yeah, God. I do not know what you are wanting from me.

I believe that whoever created everything, is capable of anything.

with the exception of manna for the Israelites ?. Or He's capable but just didn't ? because people starve today ... because no manna has been provided ?

[stuartcr]

So Stuart,

It's not that you don't believe God could've done what the bible says, but rather, you don't believe the bible is accurate, with what it says happened?
Or, you have problems with inerrancy of scripture?

Is that accurate?

I think perhaps some of the events in the bible have been exaggerated or modified to have more impact.

Regarding Christ's crucifixion, you said:

People have been captured, falsely accused and tried, tortured and crucified for everyone elses' mistakes, since the beginning of time.

Are you saying that Christ's crucifixion was exaggerated? That Christ really didn't die for the sins of the world?

+I'm sure He died by crucifixion. As to whether it was for the sins of the world, I do not know.

[stuartcr]

I thought we weren't speaking anymore?

yeah, me too ... read a little closer ... intriguing, it's like viewing an accident on the turnpike and can't avert your eyes ...

You must have found something original in what I have said.

already gave you credit for this... do you need more ?

Where did the quote...yeah, God...come from?

Re: Manna
Postby stuartcr » Fri Aug 14, 2015 12:18 pm

EssentialSacrifice wrote:
well, you said I believe in God because that's how I was made

so I thought since you used the word "made" it sounded like you might believe in a maker ?

Yeah, God. I do not know what you are wanting from me.

I believe that whoever created everything, is capable of anything.

with the exception of manna for the Israelites ?. Or He's capable but just didn't ? because people starve today ... because no manna has been provided ?

Whatever you want to call it, is ok with me.

OK, don't remember. Now I do. Out of context, it sounded to me like I was asking God what He wanted from me instead of asking what you want from me.

Don't know what you want me to do with your last para

[EssentialSacrifice]

Whatever you want to call it, ... Unique ... is ok with me... great

OK, don't remember... sure you do ... Now I do... no you don't ... Out of context, ... no it isn't ...

it sounded to me like I was asking God what He wanted from me instead of asking what you want from me. You'll know for sure when you go back and read it all.

Don't know what you want me to do with your last para ... I understand this... when you first wrote it I was sort of paralyzed too ...

Why have millions starved to death without any other record of manna?

and for quite a bit that followed too

stu wrote:
You said you believed in God but did not think of yourself as Christian
I believe He can. Whether He does or not, I have no idea.
I believe He is more than capable of creating manna, I just do not believe He did.
I understand why the story exists, I just don't believe it happened
I believe He could also, but I do not know that He said that.
I also believe anything is possible...but there are many things that have been said to have happened, that I do not believe have happened.
I have no definition of God for you

You never did tell me why the story exists ...

[stuartcr]

Whatever you want to call it, ... Unique ... is ok with me... great

OK, don't remember... sure you do ... Now I do... no you don't ... Out of context, ... no it isn't ...

it sounded to me like I was asking God what He wanted from me instead of asking what you want from me. You'll know for sure when you go back and read it all.

Don't know what you want me to do with your last para ... I understand this... when you first wrote it I was sort of paralyzed too ...

Why have millions starved to death without any other record of manna?

and for quite a bit that followed too

stu wrote:
You said you believed in God but did not think of yourself as Christian
I believe He can. Whether He does or not, I have no idea.
I believe He is more than capable of creating manna, I just do not believe He did.
I understand why the story exists, I just don't believe it happened
I believe He could also, but I do not know that He said that.
I also believe anything is possible...but there are many things that have been said to have happened, that I do not believe have happened.
I have no definition of God for you

You never did tell me why the story exists ...

I did go back and read it, I said it was out of context because all you quoted in that discussion was' Yeah God. I do not know what you want from me.'

paralyzed???

I believe the story exists, as someone on this discussion said, to teach a lesson. I imagine the lesson was about hope and trust.

[EssentialSacrifice]

Actually stuart you didn't even know the quote was from you, until I showed the full conversation in context you said;
Out of context, it sounded to me like I was asking God what He wanted from me instead of asking what you want from me.

Now you're saying ;
out of context because all you quoted in that discussion was' Yeah God. I do not know what you want from me.'

so which out of context is it ? There's nothing out of context about it. I gave you a starting point of yours… “anything is possible” to, where you actually named the source of all possibilities being made possible… “yeah, God” and then asked for more of your definition of your god. You reply you have none, even though you've already given 2 solid facts in definition.


I have no definition of God for you, sorry. I've never found it to be necessary, why is it for you?

Of course I do. I'll use one of so many words in definition of God everyone understands, trust. I need to be able to trust my God is who He says He is, does what he says He has and will do as He promises. I define God in one word, of hundreds of words in definition of Him in the word trust. I trust my eternal life to my God who because He has spent so much effort and love in showing His ways and He has shown His trustworthiness in both miraculous and every day events. I trust in His resurrection, I trust He'll tear down the temple and build it again in three days, I trust He will return… I trust He's prepared an eternal place for me … so my God for nearly inumerous reasons, is trustworthy … by definition….

Is yours ? And if so, how would you even know if you have no definition of your god.?


paralyzed??? yeah, pretty bad play on words from your para (graph) to my para (lyzed). The word is a tad strong, but this portion of your post did stop me in my tracks. Your objection to this point have been pretty ethereal.. "I believe," I don't think this happened,"" that happened" etc ..… personal conjecture stuff more related to: cause I said so, than actual proof of the unmiraculous.

This though, is different… this is you saying your reasoning is better than God's.

Why couldn't they just eat some of their flock like they normally would? Why have millions starved to death without any other record of manna?

So, here you believe in god, but you’re smarter than he is… and that's startling, even from someone who professes belief in a god but has no definition of Him. You know more or what’s better than your god.


Finally, again, you cannot commit your faith to promote hope and trust in lies. It's not just a fabricated story, that can unravel in the face of future questions, or be revised by those who weren’t there. What good lesson have you ever learned from a lie ? Why then would you let something as important as your faith be questioned by a fabricated "lesson" in belief.

[stuartcr]

Actually stuart you didn't even know the quote was from you, until I showed the full conversation in context you said;
Out of context, it sounded to me like I was asking God what He wanted from me instead of asking what you want from me.

Now you're saying ;
out of context because all you quoted in that discussion was' Yeah God. I do not know what you want from me.'

so which out of context is it ? There's nothing out of context about it. I gave you a starting point of yours… “anything is possible” to, where you actually named the source of all possibilities being made possible… “yeah, God” and then asked for more of your definition of your god. You reply you have none, even though you've already given 2 solid facts in definition.


I have no definition of God for you, sorry. I've never found it to be necessary, why is it for you?

Of course I do. I'll use one of so many words in definition of God everyone understands, trust. I need to be able to trust my God is who He says He is, does what he says He has and will do as He promises. I define God in one word, of hundreds of words in definition of Him in the word trust. I trust my eternal life to my God who because He has spent so much effort and love in showing His ways and He has shown His trustworthiness in both miraculous and every day events. I trust in His resurrection, I trust He'll tear down the temple and build it again in three days, I trust He will return… I trust He's prepared an eternal place for me … so my God for nearly inumerous reasons, is trustworthy … by definition….

Is yours ? And if so, how would you even know if you have no definition of your god.?


paralyzed??? yeah, pretty bad play on words from your para (graph) to my para (lyzed). The word is a tad strong, but this portion of your post did stop me in my tracks. Your objection to this point have been pretty ethereal.. "I believe," I don't think this happened,"" that happened" etc ..… personal conjecture stuff more related to: cause I said so, than actual proof of the unmiraculous.

This though, is different… this is you saying your reasoning is better than God's.

Why couldn't they just eat some of their flock like they normally would? Why have millions starved to death without any other record of manna?

So, here you believe in god, but you’re smarter than he is… and that's startling, even from someone who professes belief in a god but has no definition of Him. You know more or what’s better than your god.


Finally, again, you cannot commit your faith to promote hope and trust in lies. It's not just a fabricated story, that can unravel in the face of future questions, or be revised by those who weren’t there. What good lesson have you ever learned from a lie ? Why then would you let something as important as your faith be questioned by a fabricated "lesson" in belief.

OK, it wasn't out of context, better?

Good for you. Trustworthiness of God, has never been an issue or even a thought, for me. You're correct again, how would I even know if I have no definition of your god.?

Who would even think of 'para lyzed' in that context?

It is not my saying my reasoning is better than God's, and you know it.

Why is suggesting eating the flock...knowing what's better than God? Don't you think that's what everybody else did?

When did I say anything about committing my faith?

[EssentialSacrifice]

OK, it wasn't out of context, better?
Ooooh, just oodles, especially knowing you're not just saying that to not be a jerk.

Good for you. Trustworthiness of God, has never been an issue or even a thought, for me.
Can't imagine why it would for someone with no definition of his god. Nothing to think of…

You're correct again
I'm glad your noticing a trend here …

how would I even know if I have no definition of your god.? 
You wouldn't would you ? I don't even know if you know your own god.

Who would even think of 'para lyzed' in that context?
Obviously, me… why wouldn't I be surprised. I've not met someone who has belief but not faith, so
yeah, it stopped me in my tracks that you would disclaim the manna experience then blame God for not using the manna for all those who've starved to death thereafter…

It is not my saying my reasoning is better than God's, and you know it.
I know nothing of the kind. You've stated your opinion that God could have done it better in another way .

Why is suggesting eating the flock...knowing what's better than God? Don't you think that's what everybody else did?
There would never be enough flock food to last. If every one of the Jews who fled Egypt had 3 sheep each, that would still only be enough for about 6 months. Then all the sheep are gone. 6 months of animal meat for a 40 year journey in the desert. The animals would not have time to reproduce at anywhere near the numbers they would have to to sustain a population of Jews so large (500K ? or more) There is nothing to say the manna was not used in conjunction with animal meat, but we don't know that, it isn't described.

When did I say anything about committing my faith?
I wasn't talking to you specifically, especially not you specifically as, your someone who has belief but no faith in which to commit .

[stuartcr]

OK, it wasn't out of context, better?
Ooooh, just oodles, especially knowing you're not just saying that to not be a jerk.

Good for you. Trustworthiness of God, has never been an issue or even a thought, for me.
Can't imagine why it would for someone with no definition of his god. Nothing to think of…

You're correct again
I'm glad your noticing a trend here …

how would I even know if I have no definition of your god.? 
You wouldn't would you ? I don't even know if you know your own god.

Who would even think of 'para lyzed' in that context?
Obviously, me… why wouldn't I be surprised. I've not met someone who has belief but not faith, so
yeah, it stopped me in my tracks that you would disclaim the manna experience then blame God for not using the manna for all those who've starved to death thereafter…

It is not my saying my reasoning is better than God's, and you know it.
I know nothing of the kind. You've stated your opinion that God could have done it better in another way .

Why is suggesting eating the flock...knowing what's better than God? Don't you think that's what everybody else did?
There would never be enough flock food to last. If every one of the Jews who fled Egypt had 3 sheep each, that would still only be enough for about 6 months. Then all the sheep are gone. 6 months of animal meat for a 40 year journey in the desert. The animals would not have time to reproduce at anywhere near the numbers they would have to to sustain a population of Jews so large (500K ? or more) There is nothing to say the manna was not used in conjunction with animal meat, but we don't know that, it isn't described.

When did I say anything about committing my faith?
I wasn't talking to you specifically, especially not you specifically as, your someone who has belief but no faith in which to commit .

OK, that all sounds great. I still do not believe the manna story and you got to say stuff to/about me. I'm curious, if you weren't talking to me specifically, why out it into a thread addressed to me?

Hope the paralysis passes.