Greatest Threat to Australia, Europe, and America

[abelcainsbrother]

It is just not right to assume those of us who understand Islamic Jihad are cruel heartless people without the love of Christ in our hearts. I think this is political correctness. I am not against helping people and support it and I have compassion for these people however I'm not naive about Islamic jihad. I've known about it for years and have been warning about it.This is not nothing new just because it is an issue now. Islaimc jihad is coming to the west and it is all planned out by muslims to convert the world to Islam. Now sure muslims can be converted to Christianity and we hope and pray they do but this is Islamic Jihad we are inviting into our countries and it is suicide. I'm not afraid of dying,I know I have everlasting life but this is about what is best for America and Sharia law is not the answer.Maybe it will take people to see it before they understand it.How do you even know that these are real Islamic refugees? You listening to the media?Do you trust the media?

[edwardmurphy]

Here is an interesting Video...

Comments?

I skipped through it. Seems simplistic. Radical Islam is half the story. The other half is western economic imperialism. September 11th didn't come out of left field - it was a response to shady American foreign policy moves. Terrorism is certainly brutal and repugnant, but so is propping up corrupt puppet governments in order to get better trade deals. Beyond that, the number of Westerners killed by Muslim terrorism is tiny compared to the number of Muslims killed by Western-backed dictators, Western military action, and by the sectarian violence that emerged after Western intervention destabilized the region. EVERYBODY has blood on their hands.

You could at least try to see the big picture...

And check out this...

http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com/musl ... ell-watch/

According to the title of the article Muslims tried to pass Sharia law in Alabama. That never happened. It's a bold-faced lie. What actually happened is that some scumbag opportunist in the legislature saw a chance to make political hay by playing on the fears of a bunch of fearful, uninformed doofuses. He was successful, and now the people of Alabama have to live with the shame of having their ignorance of the Federal Constitution spelled out in their State Constitution. I feel for the 28% of the population who recognized how embarrassingly stupid and pointless the amendment was but have to live with it anyway...

http://www.theindianpanorama.news/edito ... 45887.html

According to the article Sharia Law is not compatible with the the US Constitution. Sharia will never be the law of the land in the United States of America, so who cares? Oh, right, Republican politicians looking for votes, conservative bloggers and pundits looking for wealth and fame, and conservative people looking for someone to tell them what to think...

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/penny-s ... aw-here-us

According to the article a handful of conservative Muslims in the US and Europe are already practicing Shria law among themselves, and that's not okay...

1) The hypocrisy is dumbfounding. Either you support freedom of religion or you don't. If you do then you'll agree that Muslims have the freedom to informally practice Sharia law among themselves. If you disagree then what you're supporting isn't freedom of religion or the US Constitution, it's just special privileges for yourself.

2) I don't much want to play Dueling Anecdotes, but here are some Christians being just as appalling as those Sharia-loving Muslims who terrify you so...

Two kids die of pneumonia because their parents reject modern medicine in favor of Christian prayer
A guy kills a cop because God told him to
The Christian concept of headship is used to justify spousal abuse and marital rape

[abelcainsbrother]

Here is an interesting Video...

Comments?

I skipped through it. Seems simplistic. Radical Islam is half the story. The other half is western economic imperialism. September 11th didn't come out of left field - it was a response to shady American foreign policy moves. Terrorism is certainly brutal and repugnant, but so is propping up corrupt puppet governments in order to get better trade deals. Beyond that, the number of Westerners killed by Muslim terrorism is tiny compared to the number of Muslims killed by Western-backed dictators, Western military action, and by the sectarian violence that emerged after Western intervention destabilized the region. EVERYBODY has blood on their hands.

You could at least try to see the big picture...

And check out this...

http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com/musl ... ell-watch/

According to the title of the article Muslims tried to pass Sharia law in Alabama. That never happened. It's a bold-faced lie. What actually happened is that some scumbag opportunist in the legislature saw a chance to make political hay by playing on the fears of a bunch of fearful, uninformed doofuses. He was successful, and now the people of Alabama have to live with the shame of having their ignorance of the Federal Constitution spelled out in their State Constitution. I feel for the 28% of the population who recognized how embarrassingly stupid and pointless the amendment was but have to live with it anyway...

http://www.theindianpanorama.news/edito ... 45887.html

According to the article Sharia Law is not compatible with the the US Constitution. Sharia will never be the law of the land in the United States of America, so who cares? Oh, right, Republican politicians looking for votes, conservative bloggers and pundits looking for wealth and fame, and conservative people looking for someone to tell them what to think...

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/penny-s ... aw-here-us

According to the article a handful of conservative Muslims in the US and Europe are already practicing Shria law among themselves, and that's not okay...

1) The hypocrisy is dumbfounding. Either you support freedom of religion or you don't. If you do then you'll agree that Muslims have the freedom to informally practice Sharia law among themselves. If you disagree then what you're supporting isn't freedom of religion or the US Constitution, it's just special privileges for yourself.

2) I don't much want to play Dueling Anecdotes, but here are some Christians being just as appalling as those Sharia-loving Muslims who terrify you so...

Two kids die of pneumonia because their parents reject modern medicine in favor of Christian prayer
A guy kills a cop because God told him to
The Christian concept of headship is used to justify spousal abuse and marital rape

I suggest you educate yourself about Sharia law and Islamic Jihad and you're wrong thinking it is OK for muslims to follow Sharia Law in the US. Muslim men can treat their wives and children like 2nd class citezens and you are wrong advocating muslims being able to go by Sharia Law in America. Muslim men can kill there wives under Sharia Law,kill their children,even kill non-believers under Sharia Law and it is totally legal to do so.For you to be for muslims being allowed to do these things in America gives you no right to compare Christians to Sharia Law. This is exactly what I'm against and you should be too. And it is their goal to bring everybody under Sharia Law and you claiming it cannot happen because of the US Consitution does not mean you should be for them trying to bring it here to America,because it is their goal and money can bring it about and you are naive if you think it can't. Money from the middle east has already brought it here to the US.Why should we allow special priviliges for muslims? They have muslim holidays in Public Schools but not for Hindu's,etc. If they cannot come here to America and live by America's laws they should not be here period and they should go back to their country and live under Sharia Law.

[edwardmurphy]

I know all I need to about Sharia Law.

As far as Muslims being able to practice Sharia within their own communities, obviously they would need to follow American laws as well. If you read B.W.'s articles then you'll know that the guys who killed their daughters and used Sharia as justification are either on the run or in prison, just like those Christian monsters who let their kids die of pneumonia. Our laws banning homicide trump the right to kill, either deliberately or through negligence, because that's what you think God would want. I meant that Muslims have the right to have their clergy settle disputes between members of the community by following the laws of their religion.

[abelcainsbrother]

I know all I need to about Sharia Law.

As far as Muslims being able to practice Sharia within their own communities, obviously they would need to follow American laws as well. If you read B.W.'s articles then you'll know that the guys who killed their daughters and used Sharia as justification are either on the run or in prison, just like those Christian monsters who let their kids die of pneumonia. Our laws banning homicide trump the right to kill, either deliberately or through negligence, because that's what you think God would want. I meant that Muslims have the right to have their clergy settle disputes between members of the community by following the laws of their religion.

No they don't have the right practice Sharia Law in America,ANYWHERE! It is a sick cruel system that does not need to be in America anywhere. And if you are going to argue for it then do not even worry about why you think Christians are wrong,they are not doing right anyway according to the bible but it still pales in comparison to what Sharia Law would legalize in America.

[edwardmurphy]

Sharia is no worse than the OT, but I suppose that's beside the point.

I agree that Muslims cannot realistically practice Sharia Law in it's entirety in the United States. Honor killings, executions, beatings, and the like are illegal in the US, and claims of religious liberty aren't going to change that. That said, there's no reason that conservative Muslims in the US can't follow as much of Sharia as possible, within the larger context of American law.

There are plenty of Jews and Christians in the US who do their best to follow the rules laid out in the OT, but long ago they accepted that there were some things that they'd have to accept or ignore. I imagine that the Muslims could do the same.

[abelcainsbrother]

Sharia is no worse than the OT, but I suppose that's beside the point.

I agree that Muslims cannot realistically practice Sharia Law in it's entirety in the United States. Honor killings, executions, beatings, and the like are illegal in the US, and claims of religious liberty aren't going to change that. That said, there's no reason that conservative Muslims in the US can't follow as much of Sharia as possible, within the larger context of American law.

There are plenty of Jews and Christians in the US who do their best to follow the rules laid out in the OT, but long ago they accepted that there were some things that they'd have to accept or ignore. I imagine that the Muslims could do the same.

Are you serious? No Jew follows the OT like atheists interpret it,this is because atheists misinterpret it. If Jews do not do the things atheists think it says to do then how can you say that about the OT? And Christians are not under the law anyway and live by grace. Anyway I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree about Sharia Law and I don't want it in the US anywhere however I'm not against muslims worshiping the way they choose to,just no Sharia Law in America anywhere.My mind will not be changed because of terrorist acts either.

[theophilus]

The fact that majority of people opposed to helping the refugees are Christian is such a shame, and leaves me baffled, bewildered and pretty deflated.

I feel the same way. The Bible says we must not conform to the world but have our minds renewed, but many Christians fail to do this.

[RickD]

The fact that majority of people opposed to helping the refugees are Christian is such a shame, and leaves me baffled, bewildered and pretty deflated.

I feel the same way. The Bible says we must not conform to the world but have our minds renewed, but many Christians fail to do this.

I think you're equating "not allowing possible Muslim extremists into the country", with "opposed to helping".

Many people think the govt should give money to help, as well as using discernment in regards to who, if anybody, is allowed into the country.

It's really an emotional argument that some people make, when they claim that people who want some kind of protection against possible terrorists entering the country, is the same as being opposed to helping refugees.

It's sad that people can't see the difference.

[Philip]

Rick: I think you're equating "not allowing possible Muslim extremists into the country", with "opposed to helping".

Many people think the govt should give money to help, as well as using discernment in regards to who, if anybody, is allowed into the country.

It's really an emotional argument that some people make, when they claim that people who want some kind of protection against possible terrorists entering the country, is the same as being opposed to helping refugees.

It's sad that people can't see the difference.

Well said, Rick! This is why God gave us a brain and discernment, to see the important differences and nuances in important issues. Those who think that the ONLY way we can show compassion is to BLINDLY open our borders to ALL who want in - well, that's crazy and extremely dangerous!

[B. W.]

Another point to consider:

"Behold, I am sending you out as sheep in the midst of wolves, so be wise as serpents and innocent as doves," Mat 10:16 ESV

Al through the bible warn to beware of...

"I know that after my departure fierce wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock," Act 20:29 ESV

Not to embrace and accept them all because someone twist the scriptures to pull on one's heart strings by the cord of guilt concerning loving enemies per Luke 6:35 's injunction without wisdom concerning savage wolves...

There is a context to Jesus' words in Luke chapter six referring to doing what is best suited to win others. Look at Mat 12:34, Mat 23:33, Luke 3:7 there are those out there we need to protect our family, strangers, country, and own selves from.

We need to be wise about this and not foolish thinking that our charitable acts of acceptance and love will ever change such folks. Note the words of Mark 9:42 regarding this... and may you gain wisdom when to aid and we not too and to whom and when.

The threat form Islam is real, they invade by emigration that is either forced or willingly contrived. When you have around 51 percent of Muslims in the USA saying they want sharia law in the USA, then that is a concern. They are taught to play on sympathy and find useful idiots from the left allied to further their cause. Folks this is real danger...

Then you have Muslims countries that will not accept these folks is telling and add to this Islamic country that is willing to build Mosques for them in Europe and not take any in their own country is very revealing!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 11850.html
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[melanie]

The fact that majority of people opposed to helping the refugees are Christian is such a shame, and leaves me baffled, bewildered and pretty deflated.

I feel the same way. The Bible says we must not conform to the world but have our minds renewed, but many Christians fail to do this.

I think you're equating "not allowing possible Muslim extremists into the country", with "opposed to helping".

Many people think the govt should give money to help, as well as using discernment in regards to who, if anybody, is allowed into the country.

It's really an emotional argument that some people make, when they claim that people who want some kind of protection against possible terrorists entering the country, is the same as being opposed to helping refugees.

It's sad that people can't see the difference.

You know what is sad, that the difference was never the point of this discussion.
Let's make a very clear distinction here, nowhere in this thread was any notion of countries not being able to discern who is granted refugee status.
This thread was NEVER about safeguards to ensure radical Islam extremist did not enter into foreign countries. If anyone would like to start such a thread then we can discuss that topic but let's call a spade a spade and discuss what is being addressesed in this thread.
That is not allowing Syrian refugees into Australia, America and and Europe.
If there is any confusion let me reiterate some of the sentiments put forward thus far;
"THEY come in and use the freedoms in the west against itself"
Let's be clear that the THEY being referred to was refugees, let's continue....
"THEIR goal is to convert the world to Islam"
"They are the leopard in the bible, THEY blend in and camouflage". This was in reference to Muslims not specifically directed at extremists.
"There needs to be laws in place so that Muslims will not come here". Probably don't need to elaborate but obvious that this argument has not been based on Islamic extremists but rather on Muslim Syrian refugees as a whole without discernment.
"Muslims do not deserve the freedom that the US has"
"They are enemies that desire us dead"
"This invasion of Islam through emigration of refugees is playing on the weakness and sympathy" Noted Again this is referring to Islam refugees as a whole not intended to be a statement made in any reference to safeguarding against terrorists.
"I'm not against any other religion coming to America only Islam"
"It's is THEIR goal to bring everyone under Sharia Law".
"No THEY don't have the right to practice Sharia Law in America, ANYWHERE!"

I am all good to debate about this but let's be real and address the relevent topic.
Syrian refugees.
Let's not create straw men.
This is about people in this instance Christians not wanting to help Syrian refugees with asylum status.
You cannot accuse someone of using emotional arguments and then do the exact same thing, under the pretence that opposed to helping is not the same as trying to protect against Muslim extremists.
This whole argument is about refugees. And people opposed to helping.
They haven't even tried to whitewash it.

Okay now that hopefully we are back on track and using as Philip said our brains and discernment we can discuss the issue which is the threat of Syrian refugees.
It would be pretty stupid and well not at all practiced by governments to just let anybody wander into our borders. There are actually processes in place where Governments actually choose who they allow to enter. Profound.
That screening process is actually taking place right now in Austraila.
So, don't mean to harp on but nobody is suggesting that we open up out borders and let and any willy nilly or Tom, **** or Harry enter.
What is being suggested is that no legitimate Syrian refugee be allowed to enter based purely on the fact they are Muslim. I'm not sure if anyone cares that nearly half of these refugees are children!

On a side note I have been very interested in Middle Eastern politics and history for some time. I have read a great deal and whilst I am certainly no expert I am well aware of the political, historical and religious issues facing this region.
It should be noted that Sharia Law encompasses every aspect of the Muslim Faith. It is the moral, legal and religious code followed by Mulsims. There is not a practising Musilm that does not adhere to Sharia Law. It is the embodiment of their faith down to their prayer rituals. Muslims that have coexisted and been a functioning part of our societies already practice Sharia Law, but how it is interpreted is very convoluted and dependent upon several factors. There are 5 schools of jurisprudence in modern Islam broken down into Sunni and Shiite factions even within these Muslim theologians and scholars disagree on interpretation and application.
Much like some Christianity school of thought that relies heavily on the understanding that scripture was very dependent on the audience and historical significance, many Muslims also believe that Sharia must be interpreted in the same type of ways.
Moderate Muslims as we like to call them are very much religious as their extremist counterparts but have a different interpretation of the Quran. I know that it is believed by many that that means they are not true Muslims or something of the like, we like to define their faith for them and become experts on Islamic theology although extremely ill equipped to do so. As we know there is nothing more frustrating when non Christians attempt to determine our faith for us, with little understanding.
With all that being said, there are Muslims countries that uphold Sharia Law that are democracies, and are not hardline like other countries and extremist groups but this hardline approach is beyond troubling. It's dangerous and barbaric.
What is also dangerous and barbaric is the hate and suspicion towards the majority moderate Muslim community. By having this attitude towards them we are lengthening the divide and helping to create and manifest fear and suspicion that is rampant on both sides.
They have every right to religious freedom, as do we.
We have every obligation to help those in need including Muslim refugees. Their conflict started because of a push against their government, a desire towards democracy. Rebels and civilians rose against the government, creating a civil war. Thrown in ISIS who they are both fighting, the country is in disrepair. They have been targeted on every side, chemical weapons used against them, they have been starved, made homeless, been bombed and are suffering. Neighbouring countries have been taking refugees for the last few years but when you are talking about half of the entire population, more than 4 million it's not suffice, not to mention conditions in refugees camps like in Jordan have seen the selling of Syrian women and girls as young as 10 being sold as sexual slaves, living in tent camps too afraid to go to the bathroom for fear of being raped, not by Syrian men but men from surrounding countries who are utilising their vulnerability.

And you know it's no surprise that non Christians act like non Christians, it is to be expected.
It wasn't Mohammed who said "love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those that mistreat you"
Jesus spoke those words
That's our standard.
Only made possible through the Holy Spirit, we could never achieve that on our own.
It is the Bible not the Quran that says "overcome evil with good"
It was Jesus not Mohammed, who prayed "Father forgive them; for they know not what they do"
As He took upon Hinself the sins of everyone of us.
It is Jesus' followers, not Mohammed's who have the higher calling of overcoming evil and loving our enemies. It is the easy road to only love those that love us, even Muslims do that. What makes us different??

You can never overcome hate and evil with hate, its overcoming a greater evil with a lesser evil but still tainted with the same brush.
Islam is not founded upon sacrificial love, so I get why some so called Muslims fuelled by hate do what they do, but I find not the same understanding for those who know that our Saviour loved His enemies so much that He shed His blood for them.
The true heart of christianity is love, we don't have to do backflips to understand this "so in everything, do unto others what you would have them do unto you, this sums up the law and the prophets". Law and Prophets meaning scripture.
After Jesus said loving our neighbour is right behind loving God in spiritual importance, someone asked "who is my neighbour?"
Jesus spoke about the Jew and the Samaritan. Strangers that regarded each other as heretics and disdain. Love is not the absence of hate but sacrificing and caring for those that may even hate us. Love looks after and tends to bloody wounds, it gives your donkey to another who thinks of you as their enemy while you walk, it pays for their accommodation till they are better, it is being selfless and looking after those even if they are our enemy.
Jesus was asked who is our neighbour and He made it clear it was everyone, even those who may seem to be against us. We must help and see all as our neighbours.
Jesus made it clear.

[RickD]

Mel,

It looks like we are pretty much in agreement then. The US, and other countries, should make an effort to help refugees, who truly need help. And any help given needs to be given with a lot of discernment as to who may be extremists.

Most of the issues you mentioned, are with ACB.

This statement is what I took issue with:

Mel wrote:
The fact that majority of people opposed to helping the refugees are Christian is such a shame, and leaves me baffled, bewildered and pretty deflated.

It didn't seem to be aimed at the issues you have with what ACB said. Maybe it's different in Australia. But here, I don't hear Christians saying not to help refugees.

And theophilus' response to you here:

I feel the same way. The Bible says we must not conform to the world but have our minds renewed, but many Christians fail to do this.

seemed to say he also believes Christians don't want to help the refugees. And theophilus lives in America. That's just an ignorant statement. Christians in America, in general, aren't opposed to helping refugees.

So,

Your quote and theophilus' quote together, isn't an accurate picture of what's going on in America.

[melanie]

Rick I wasn't giving an expose of Christian opinion in the US regarding refugees but rather what was being expressed in this thread not only Abel.
I have never been aware of any government freely opening their borders without any discernment as to whom they allow to enter.
It is a mute point. It doesn't happen.
The question is and has been been Syrian Muslim refugees. As the silent enemy, conspiring to take over the west using sympathy and weakness or at least that is how it plays out and reads to me.

[Philip]

I agree with compassion and helping those who need it - as EVERYONE is our "neighbor." But we better do that with great caution, certainly with respect to allowing immigration.

I do take exception with a few of Mel's comments:

Mel: "... we like to define their faith for them and become experts on Islamic theology although extremely ill equipped to do so. As we know there is nothing more frustrating when non Christians attempt to determine our faith for us, with little understanding."

No! The QUARAN defines what Muslims ARE to believe - that is their standard. And while there certainly is a diversity of how Muslims interpret it, the fact remains that it teaches some hideously dangerous and evil things (here's a list: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran ... olence.htm, that if taken seriously and played out in actions, is a danger to everyone! There is little to NO ambiguity in many such teachings. It's those that take the Quaran seriously, literally, as written/IN context, that worry me. Let's not forget that Islam is likely Satanic in its origins. Mel has talked about the many tools of Satan - well, the Quaran is one of his biggest and most useful tools in his toolbox!

Mel: "With all that being said, there are Muslims countries that uphold Sharia Law that are democracies"

Um, I'd love to see exactly what countries you would put on that tiny list!

The things I brought up still don't change that we are to be compassionate, but we do have to be wise and extremely careful.

And, across the Muslim world, what percentage of it would be upset if Israel were wiped off of the map???!!!